I guess that's the difference between full-time employees at good companies vs. bad ones: I've told the CEO his idea was stupid before and after he got over the shock we had a discussion about why and moved on with it. At a lot of companies it would've gotten me fired (and I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to anyone else, but I was having a bad day and he was being insistent), but that's why I'm not working at those companies.
There are always politics and always gotchas, but I wouldn't work at any company where I wouldn't feel comfortable being honest (censoring myself to avoid insulting people is fine - i.e. "I don't agree with that idea" vs. "That idea is stupid", but censoring myself to support bad ideas is not). I expect the people that report into me to tell me when I'm screwing something up, and I expect my bosses to be able to take it when I tell them the same. Nicholas > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of edward potter > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 1:27 PM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: Re: [nyphp-talk] Followup: Going weekly rate for > phpdeveloper/coderin NYC these days? > > I have found that FT employees ALWAYS have to get involved in office > politics, worry about doing what the boss wants them to do, and toe > the line. Contractors can say the direction this is going is all > wrong - you can be much more independent, that's why they are worth a > BIG premium, they they don't lose their edge, don't have to please > everyone, and don't have to worry about not getting invited to the > office picnic. > > Or as I've said to the CEO (as a contractor): what you are doing here > is totally stupid, you have to change course. > CEO: damn, you're right, NO one here ever told me that before. They > just yes me to death. > > Just my 2 cents! :-) ed > > On 1/18/07, Nicholas Tang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I guess a lot depends on whether you look at it as an > employer or as an > > employee. From my perspective in terms of what I'd be > willing to pay a > > contractor, it's nowhere near 2.5x what I'd pay a full-time > employee. > > I'd pay them what I'd pay a full-time employee plus the savings in > > benefits, which is more like 120% instead of 250%. If they're > > especially critical, maybe 150%. I also prefer to hire > full-time people > > most of the time. ;) > > > > > Money for vacation, sick and personal time - Consulting > for yourself, > > > you don't work, you don't get paid > > > > Yup. > > > > > Retirement funds - Somebody has to pay me to golf > everyday and travel > > > after I'm 65 1/2 ;-) > > > > Yup. > > > > > Medical and life insurance - This is the expensive part, > > > without a bulk > > > discount, insurance is like $2000 a month > > > > Yup. > > > > > Business equipment/space/expenses - Somebody's got to pay > the rent for > > > your office space and equipment and related expenses > > > > A lot of contractors work on-site, which eliminates these expenses. > > > > > Taxes - Uncle Sam wants his cut too, the figure varies but it's > > > somewhere between 25 - 30% of your pay... > > > > Us full-timers pay taxes too. :) If not, I'd be on a > yacht right now > > instead of in the office. ;) > > > > > Misc. Benefits - Enjoy that free coffee, gym membership, or other > > > activities at the office? Now you get to spring for them... > > > > True, with the caveat above. (If a contractor's in our > office, they can > > of course partake of any of the free coffee or other > similar benefits as > > a full-timer.) > > > > > In addition, you are essentially running a business now so to > > > gather new > > > business you have to pay for advertising, treating new > and existing > > > clients to lunch or dinner to promote new business, pay > for your own > > > training and certifications, and those trips to MacWorld, > GeekCruise, > > > etc... > > > > Yup. > > > > All of those are reasons why I never understood why so many > companies > > hire so many contractors - if I had a choice between hiring > someone for > > a 6 month contract, or to be a full-time employee for 15 > months for the > > same rate, I'd hire them full-time in a second. It makes > no sense to me > > to pay such a huge premium for the same thing. (And someone's value > > goes up to me over time as they learn how the company works, how our > > technology works, etc. It can take weeks to get someone up > to speed on > > a new environment and practices, and it's a lot easier to eat that > > "cost" over the course of full-time employment than if you > bring in a > > short-term contractor.) > > > > Nicholas > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > -- > the Blog: http://www.utopiaparkway.com > the Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com > the Projects: http://flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > the Store: http://astore.amazon.com/httpwwwutopic-20 > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > !DSPAM:3343,45afbd13306121272254815! > > > _______________________________________________ New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online http://www.nyphpcon.com Show Your Participation in New York PHP http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
