Hello,
Lots of good points.
In that case you may also consider someone who does PHP development as a
hobby (like me), but has many other skills such as software QA and support
experience (like me)....uh, did I just apply for the job? ;)
You can always teach them about objects and classes later if they got the
basics down such as loops, conditions, and such.
This is exactly the role I'm looking to fill in my company.
uh, did I just apply for the job? ;)
You can if you want! Contact me off list if you are truely interested.
I was asked once to take a test during an interview. As soon as the HR
person asked me to do that I no longer wanted that job. Hire me because I
work well and not because I test well. Knowing a lot doesn't necessarily
mean that one can do a lot. There is a fine line between knowledge and
skill and you really want to go for skill more than knowledge. I'm not
saying that knowing a lot is bad, but I met people with tons of technical
degress that were challanged by wiring up a simple phone.
I have been asked to solve problems for jobs in the past. One I really
bombed
and still got the job, another I solved well and got the job.
I don't see the point in NOT testing an applicant..I mean..if they're
applying
for a job as a programmer, and part of that is solving problems, I'm curious
to see how they approach "problem solving". I don't care if they get the
answer *right*,
I just want to see their thought process.
While that is indeed a good exercise it may backfire and make your
development team look chaotic and disorganized
True, I guess I'd just be curious if they can follow the code, and also
how they could do it better. Point out some mistakes/bad practices.
Thanks for the thoughts!
- Ben
Ben Sgro, Chief Engineer
ProjectSkyLine - Defining New Horizons
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Krings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk@lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [nyphp-talk] Questions to ask at a job interview?
Hi!
I never hired or interviewed anyone, but currently look for a new job and
can tell you some of the questions that I ask and my point of view of
things you consider doing during the interview.
Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline) wrote:
Hello all,
/So, once again, depending on the actual job description, I might take
some ugly code (in any real work environment, there should be no shortage
of that :), print it out, and give the candidate a pad and a pen, or a
text editor, and say "Clean this up. I'll be back in 20 minutes."/
That's a great idea. Our first product (wasn't meant to ever be realesed
heh) is a mess. If the candidate could manage to navigate through it and
improve it, I would be impressed.
While that is indeed a good exercise it may backfire and make your
development team look chaotic and disorganized. It may also give the
impression as if it is OK to create ugly code. You or someone on your team
apparently did. I would get some doubts if your place is really the best
address to apply my skills. As a candidate I'd also be confused as to what
the purpose of this exercise is. Do you expect me to go through thousands
of lines later and clean up the mess that others left behind? Do these
developers consider themselves to be "too good" to do work like that? And
does this test tell you anything about how the candidate writes and
formats code?
At least don't tell the candidates that this code was considered a
"product". You need to sell yourself to applicants in the same way as they
sell themslves to you. And for anyone who is serious about their work
things like coding standards, work ethic, and such matter as much as
money.
/Also check with HR to find out what you are *not* allowed to ask,
anything that could be construed to be a basis for discrimination like
age.
/
We don't have HR, but I will keep it pretty technical and not
personal...besides asking what
their personal interests are.
I wouldn't ask anything personal other than education and previous
employment. It is none of your business if the candidate likes watching
SpongeBob. This isn't Germany where it is common to ask this, and the
occupation of your parents, and to which elementary school you went to.
/If you like somebody and think they will work out, ask them to come back
and invite in 2 or 3 of their potential coworkers and have a short
brainstorming session on a problem you have at the moment. See what they
contribute./
That's a great idea. The position is for a coder, but I let candidates
know in my post and on the phone
that there would be times when they might deal with customers, work an
account, provide insight
to larger projects, be writing CL scripts, etc. It's a many hats
position, because we are a small company
and have lots to get done. I know that this may not work, so based on
their performance, I can
place more of their time onto things they a) enjoy doing b) do well
(which probably are related).
In that case you may also consider someone who does PHP development as a
hobby (like me), but has many other skills such as software QA and support
experience (like me)....uh, did I just apply for the job? ;)
You can always teach them about objects and classes later if they got the
basics down such as loops, conditions, and such.
/As for questions, its good to have a formal test you ask them to take,
but interviewing is an art you can only get good at with practice./
// This will be the first time the tables are turned. I've never
conducted an interview before.
I was asked once to take a test during an interview. As soon as the HR
person asked me to do that I no longer wanted that job. Hire me because I
work well and not because I test well. Knowing a lot doesn't necessarily
mean that one can do a lot. There is a fine line between knowledge and
skill and you really want to go for skill more than knowledge. I'm not
saying that knowing a lot is bad, but I met people with tons of technical
degress that were challanged by wiring up a simple phone.
Now, the questions that I tend to ask are:
What is the ratio between developers and QA staff? (Should be somewhat
towards 1:1) Ratio between staff and management? (the lower the better)
Do you like working here? (You better shout out a convincing "Yes"
immediately and tell me why your company/organization is the best to work
for in the entire universe)
What is the turnover rate? (If your staff is dropping like the flies you
really have a problem, not only in regards to answering this question)
Do I have access to all resources and persons on the team and in
management? (I don't want to schedule an appointment with my supervisor
for an urgent issue and I don't like not being allowed to go straight to
other developers to address an issue. This is supposed a team, not a jail
or the military)
Am I allowed to choose the tools that I consider are the best to do the
job? (Saying yes may mean that someone buys anything that Programmer's
Paradise has in stock. If it is about buying the favorite PHP IDE for 50$
I'd expect that to be a non-issue as long as it makes me (means the
candidate/employee) be more productive / feel more comfortable. After all,
you hire someone because they have skills that you currently do not have
available at all or in the needed amount in your team. You are looking for
a subject matter expert and not a whipping boy.)
Now the questions that I was asked and that I think are pretty useless:
Where do you want to be in five years? (on my private beach with a huge
house and tons of cash....no, I don't answer that, I say I want to broaden
my knowledge and become a subject matter expert in the field I am working
in. Honestly, first tell me that you will pay me for five years and then
we can talk where I want to be.)
Why did you apply for this position? (Guess why? I need a job and you are
hiring, that's why. You apparently think that I am qualified otherwise you
wouldn't have invited me for an interview.)
How do you organize your workplace? (Who cares if it looks like a bomb
dropped. There are no customers in my cube and in the end the quality of
the result counts. A way more interesting question would be how the
candidate treats other's workspaces and common areas, like the lunch room
or bathroom - but you are not allowed to ask that.)
What do you expect to get paid? (A million bucks, please....the candidate
will let you know when you make an offer. If you really like one person
and they turn you down, you can make a better offer. Use salary.com to
find out what the going rate is in the area and be sure that the applicant
did the same. Money is important, but really something to talk about at
the very very end of the process.)
Good luck finding the right person.
David
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