Funny, but some (valid? fair? not sure) points about NoSQL databases: http://highscalability.com/blog/2009/11/25/brian-akers-hilarious-nosql-stand-up-routine.html accompanying slides: http://www.slideshare.net/brianaker/no-sql-talk
On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Peter Becker <[email protected]> wrote: > Here here! I think that context is everything and the points you made are > spot on.....so why this huge interest in non-relational db's now? I'd say > it in 2 words Web 2.0 (well actually 1 word and 1integer). > > Could Facebook, Twitter and any of the others have any idea of what their db > should look like or evolve to? I doubt it, and so for these cases where the > industry is not mature the non-relational makes perfect sense. But for > mature industries, then organizing the data with clearly defined attributes > and organization will give the biggest bang for the buck to the business > who's inevitably using it (and paying the bills). > It'll be interesting to see as these new industries mature and the next > generations have a better idea of what they'll be/need to do whether there > will be a migration away from the non-relational... > > Anyway, just my 2 cents from a neophyte who knows just enough to be > dangerous. > > Peter > > Gary Mort wrote: >> >> Ok, so since someone has been singing the praises of MongoDB, and others >> have been mentioned, I figured I'd provide a contrarian view and see if you >> can convince me otherwise. >> >> I'm a big fan of relational databases. Have been using them since I >> graduated from college in 1993, starting with DB2, followed with MySQL[and >> boy was THAT interesting. DB2 was always like 2 years behind all the neat >> features in other relational databases. Then I went to MySQL and not only >> did it lack those features, it lacked a lot of what solid, dependable DB2 >> had! And it was on purpose! They deliberately choose to keep MySQL lean >> and mean and avoid things like foreign keys, stored procedures, and such.] >> >> My experience is that almost any application can be broken up and thought >> of as tables. Especially in the business world, people naturally think in >> terms of spreadsheets since the spreadsheet is king there. And a >> spreadsheet is nothing but a table. >> >> And by putting everything in well documented[ha ha!] tables with >> consistent column and table naming schemes, even power users can use query >> tools such as Navicat to build their own queries and reports easily. So by >> keeping everything in a well understood industry standard format, we lower >> the skill level needed to access and create reports on the underlying data - >> always a good thing since I personally hate it when someone asks me to >> create a report on sales from last year "just like this other one except we >> need to include wholesale prices", There is no challenge there, no fun. >> Just pure grunt work. >> >> So all this talk of moving away from SQL makes me nervous. Will cluefull >> users still be able to envision the data so they can pull reports. Heck, >> are there even the user friendly point and click tools for them to do >> so?[Personally I never use the query builder in Navicat and find it tedious, >> but I know plenty of power users who CAN do that]. >> >> To me, it looks like migrating to this new method of storing data will end >> up "locking" the business data up in a format that raises the cost to access >> the data. It reminds me of the way Magentoo is designed, with those oh so >> cool tables for storing field values without creating new table fields. >> Sure, it may make it easier to expand/change the system, but having to do >> multiple joins to the same dang table to get different pieces of data makes >> the data harder to get to for non programmers! >> >> My feeling on business data is that business data belongs TO the business >> creating it. Not to some programmer who is the only one who can access >> it[or worse, to some company that stores it in a proprietary format and >> won't allow the data to be exported!] - so at the moment, I'm not seeing >> that sort of access for data in MongoDB. Command line pseodo queries is >> not enough, I want to know the data is easy to get out for a power user - >> not me. >> >> -- >> ---- >> Hudson Valley Sudbury School >> What GPL is for application users >> Our school is for students >> Help your children grow, change, and learn >> Let your child direct, control, amend >> Check out http://www.sudburyschool.org >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > _______________________________________________ New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation
