Neither did I. The head, Who's name, for your reference is David Woo was the head of AI Squared. Now the head is one of the big bosses at VFO.
-----Original Message----- From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Loy via Talk Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 11:04 AM To: bjn...@windstream.net; Window-Eyes Discussion List Cc: Loy Subject: Re: contacting Doug. When I heard the head at AISquared speak at the time of the merger, I did not like him, I could since he was not being totally honest about the future of WE and AISquared. ----- Original Message ----- From: Brenda via Talk To: Butch Bussen via Talk Cc: Brenda Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:59 PM Subject: Re: contacting Doug. I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes. but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no more control. I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them Window-eyes as VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was acquired. Maybe AI Squared was also in bad shape financially and felt selling out to VFO was in their best interest. It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but refused them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too. Perhaps not. True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but for me Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the term VFO Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm still dealing with the loss. some may not like these posts, but they are helping me deal with the situation. I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh well - I'll move on eventually. Brenda On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote: > Yes, that is my understanding as well. Again, i wonder if gw people had > a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain. Again I wonder, was > this a i squared's agenda all along? Only the shadow knows. > 73 > Butch > WA0VJR > Node 3148 > Wallace, ks. > > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote: > >> It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that >> both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give >> Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes >> that were very much needed. Once they sold the company, even though >> they remained active employees, they would not have had a say >> regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO. I remember at the time >> GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some context >> or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had >> compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism there. >> The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided the >> new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed. I really >> don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of >> Dennis Long via Talk >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM >> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> >> Cc: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com> >> Subject: RE: contacting Doug. >> >> When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE. >> Remember everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of >> Reeva Webb via Talk >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM >> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List >> Cc: Reeva Webb >> Subject: RE: contacting Doug. >> >> Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, >> y'all shouldn't have gotten with the shark. >> >> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never >> promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls >> Of Jericho >> >> Reeva >> >> On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" >> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> >> wrote: >> >>> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of >>> Russ Kiehne via Talk >>> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM >>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List >>> Cc: Russ Kiehne >>> Subject: Re: contacting Doug. >>> >>> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes. >>> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then. >>> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Debby Franson via Talk >>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM >>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List >>> Cc: Debby Franson >>> Subject: Re: contacting Doug. >>> >>> Hi Loy! >>> >>> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this >>> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the >>> current day. >>> >>> Debby >>> >>> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote >>>> This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much >>>> faster >>>> than JAWS since 1996. ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ >>>> Kiehne >>>> via Talk To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Cc: Russ Kiehne Sent: >>>> Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM Subject: Re: contacting Doug. >>>> Check >>>> this out from times past! Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT >>>> From: >>>> Jamal Mazrui <74444.1...@compuserve.com> Subject: CSUN "Dueling >>> Windows" >>>> Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows" report in >>> the >>>> Spring 1996 issue of Access Review. It summarizes a competition >>>> among >>>> Windows screen readers that was held at the 1996 CSUN conference in >>>> March. I am prefacing the article with some tabulations I did >>>> with its >>>> data. Since the article does not quantify the performance of each >>>> screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis >>>> for the >>>> interest of readers. I assigned a value of 2 for accomplishing a >>>> task, >>> 1 >>>> for accomplishing it with difficulty, and 0 for failing it. If >>>> anyone >>>> observes an error in my arithmetic, please let me know. Artic's >>>> WinVision accomplished: 7 accomplished with difficulty: 2 >>>> failed: 6 >>>> total points: 16 average: 1.06 Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows >>>> accomplished: 9 accomplished with difficulty: 5 failed: 1 total >>>> points: 23 average: 1.53 GW Micro's Window-Eyes accomplished: 5 >>>> accomplished with difficulty: 1 failed: 9 total points: 11 >>>> average: >>>> .73 Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows accomplished: 13 accomplished >>>> with difficulty: 1 failed: 1 total points: 27 average: 1.8 >>>> IBM's >>>> Screen Reader/2 accomplished: 13 accomplished with difficulty: 1 >>>> failed: 1 total points: 27 average: 1.8 Syntha-Voice's Window >>>> Bridge >>>> accomplished: 5 accomplished with difficulty: 4 failed: 6 total >>>> points: 14 average: .93 TeleSensory's Screen Power for Windows >>>> accomplished: 5 accomplished with difficulty: 7 failed: 3 total >>>> points: 17 average: 1.13 Based solely on this analysis, JAWS for >>>> Windows and Screen Reader/2 were tied for top. They were followed by >>>> OutSpoken for Windows, Screen Power for Windows, WinVision, Window >>> Bridge >>>> and Window-Eyes. Let me remind readers that Windows access >>>> products are >>>> rapidly developing so that new versions might lead to significantly >>>> different results today. In fact, some developers have already made >>>> enhancements to address problems encountered at this >>>> competition. ---------- Dueling Windows: An >>>> Overview by >>>> Kenneth Frasse (re-printed with permission of Sensory Access >>>> Foundation from Access Review, Vol. I, No. 1, Spring 1996) >>>> Abstract In March, at the CSUN International Conference on Technology >>> and >>>> Persons with Disabilities held in Los Angeles, California, Mark >>>> Nelson >>> of >>>> the Foundation for Blind Children hosted a pre-conference seminar >>>> called >>>> "Dueling Windows". This seminar attempted to contrast and compare >>>> graphical user interface (GUI) screen review software in applications >>> for >>>> Windows. The format of the seminar was to pose identical tasks to >>>> each >>>> of the vendors in alternating order and have the vendors >>>> demonstrate the >>>> ability of their products to perform the specified tasks. Since SAF >>> does >>>> not sell, distribute, or endorse any single GUI screen reader, we >>>> attempted to generate an objective review of the GUI screen readers >>>> demonstrated. Editor Similar to the 1995 Closing the Gap >>>> presentation of Dueling Windows, Mark Nelson of the Arizona-based >>>> Foundation for Blind Children coordinated another Dueling Windows >>>> at the >>>> March CSUN conference in Los Angeles. The Los Angeles seminar >>>> differed >>>> in several respects from the first seminar at Closing the Gap, not >>>> the >>>> least of which was that the seminar was six hours long. It was >>>> similar >>>> to the Closing the Gap seminar in that it was composed of >>>> questions and >>>> tasks that each of the vendors had to answer or perform. Notably, >>>> Greg >>>> Meise of the Kansas-based Missing Link Technologies, Kerry >>>> Malone-Cook >>> of >>>> the Southern Oregon Goodwill, and Jay Stiteley of The New >>>> Jersey-based >>>> Seeing Eye, Inc. joined Mr. Nelson as the three panelists who would >>>> present the questions of the day; these panelists also formed the >>> impetus >>>> for creating Dueling Windows. I wish to take a moment to explain the >>>> presentation and approach of this article so that the reader may >>>> be as >>>> clear on the issues presented as possible. I will present Dueling >>>> Windows in five sections: 1) Who was there: Which GUI software >>>> were >>>> represented at the seminar and what are some of the fundamental >>> equipment >>>> differences between them that the seminar results might not make >>>> obvious >>>> for the reader; 2) Technical Set-up: What was the technical >>>> set-up >>>> for the seminar; 3) Environment: What are the advantages and >>>> disadvantages of the Dueling Windows environment; 4) Results: >>>> The >>>> Dueling Windows results; 5) Summary and commentary. Who was there >>>> Seven GUI screen reader developers were represented at the seminar. >>> These >>>> included: 1) Artic Technologies's WinVision 2 v2.16; 2) >>>> Berkeley >>>> Access's outSPOKEN for Windows v1.2 (vb26 public beta) 3) GW >>>> Micro's >>>> Window-Eyes v1.03; 4) Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows (JFW) >>>> v1.2; 5) >>>> IBM's Screen Reader/2 (SR/2) v2.0; 6) Syntha-Voice's SLIMWARE >>>> Window >>>> Bridge v2.21; 7) TeleSensory's ScreenPower for Windows (SPW) >>>> v1.47B. >>>> Nearly all GUI screen readers were represented by their respective >>>> owners/developers/staff except for WinVision which was represented by >>> one >>>> of their California authorized dealers, Paul Hendrikson. Window >>>> Bridge >>>> also opted to have a student user demonstrate the latter portion >>>> of the >>>> seminar in lieu of Niel Cooper who demonstrated the first >>>> segment. The >>>> other participants were Josh Miele of Berkeley Access, Mike Lawler >>>> of GW >>>> Micro, Ted Henter and Glen Gordon of Henter-Joyce, Inc., Guido >>>> Corona of >>>> IBM, and Scott Duncan of TeleSensory, Inc. Several of the GUI >>>> screen >>>> readers claim to possess electronic braille display support, but >>>> TeleSensory was the only vendor who brought and used their own >>>> PowerBraille 40-cell display; unfortunately, the airlines misplaced >>>> TeleSensory's PB-40, and Mr. Duncan was unable to demonstrate the >>> braille >>>> display ability until later in the afternoon. (TeleSensory claims >>>> that >>>> one of the strengths of ScreenPower for Windows is its braille >>>> display >>>> support. SAF will soon be testing and comparing braille display >>> support, >>>> and the results will be published in ACCESS REVIEW. Technical Set-up >>>> The seminar was performed on 7 identical Pentium computers with 16 >>>> megabytes of RAM; these machines were generously donated by IBM. >>>> Each of >>>> the computers had a 17-inch monitor that was turned 180 degrees away >>> from >>>> the participant and facing the audience so that the audience could >>> review >>>> where the participant was in their manipulations. Additionally, a >>>> large >>>> overhead screen displayed to the audience the monitor of the >>>> individual >>>> vendor who was performing tasks; vendors were not allowed to visually >>>> review the monitor. All audible feed from the computers was sent to >>>> DECtalk voice synthesizers which were in turn fed into the main PA of >>> the >>>> room. Each vendor installed their own GUI screen reader and >>>> peripherals >>>> associated with their software. Aside from TeleSensory's eventual >>>> use >>> of >>>> the PB-40, IBM's Screen Reader/2 used an external keypad from >>>> which all >>>> operations were performed. Mr. Corona did have one piece of >>>> software >>>> that differed from the other vendors; IBM uses their own Web Explorer >>> for >>>> Internet access while the other GUI screen readers use Netscape for >>> their >>>> access to the Internet. Since real-time access to the Internet >>>> posed a >>>> tactical impasse, the vendors had to download prepared pages from >>>> their >>>> own hard drives; it was assumed that this would mostly resemble >>> real-time >>>> operation on the Internet. Lastly, the seminar was split into two >>>> three-hour sessions with an emphasis on spread sheets in the morning, >>> and >>>> an emphasis on Netscape and word processing in the afternoon. The >>>> applications used included Microsoft Access, Microsoft Excel, >>>> Netscape >>>> (Web Explorer for IBM), and Microsoft Word. Environment It is >>>> important to understand the context and limitations of the Dueling >>>> Windows environment with respect to GUI screen readers. In so doing, >>> the >>>> reader can better establish where more inquiry may be appropriate, as >>>> well as where, and when, GUI screen readers can directly address the >>>> user's needs. Generally speaking, the fifteen questions from the >>>> Dueling >>>> Windows panel posed common, direct tasks for the vendors to perform. >>> The >>>> reader can determine the general state of GUI affairs through the >>>> entire >>>> seminar, but there are several cases in which the reader cannot >>> determine >>>> the cause of a certain result. In several cases, vendors' systems >>>> crashed, and they were obligated to re-boot their systems; in some >>> cases, >>>> it was not possible to determine exactly what the cause of the crash >>> was. >>>> It is important to acknowledge that there are numerous ways to >>>> program >>> in >>>> Windows for a desired result, and, consequently, there are inherent >>>> problems with the way Windows applications have been programmed. >>>> Since >>>> it is SAF's belief that most beginner users do not know how to >>>> configure >>>> the speech parameters or profiles for various Windows >>>> environments, it >>>> was also difficult to determine whether a GUI screen reader could not >>>> access something on the screen, or whether this problem could have >>>> been >>>> solved by altering the speech configuration; in short, there are >>>> minor >>>> and major obstacles, and Dueling Windows could not afford the vendors >>> the >>>> time to really address this other than to allow them to verbally >>>> state >>>> whether they could, or could not, perform a task. Naturally, the >>>> ease >>>> with which a user can access their application or configure their >>>> speech >>>> software is important, even critical, but this detail could not be >>>> discussed because of time constraints as well. Though the general >>>> approach and philosophy of each vendor became increasingly >>>> apparent as >>>> the seminar passed, the more subtle distinctions of each vendor's >>>> approach could not be related through the Dueling Windows >>>> context. None >>>> of this is to say that the seminar should, or could, have been >>>> planned >>>> differently. It is simply necessary to understand that any >>>> competitive >>>> context for any product is sometimes misleading in only reviewing the >>>> statistical results. The seminar was well-planned, >>>> well-organized, and >>>> extremely thoughtful and reasonable in its approach and inquiry. >>>> Results >>>> The following results are displayed in a similar fashion as did the >>>> Dueling Windows panel. There were three categories of scoring; the >>>> vendor either achieved the task, achieved the task with >>>> difficulty, or >>>> failed to perform the task. For the purpose of our review of the >>>> seven >>>> vendors, "achieved task" means that the vendor was able to achieve >>>> the >>>> task with good efficacy and few keystrokes; "achieved task with >>>> difficulty" means that the vendor had to try repeatedly, the task >>>> required an inordinate number of keystrokes or searching, or multiple >>>> modes or cursors were required to achieve a task that was simpler in >>>> design than performing it; "failed task" simply means that the >>>> task was >>>> not accomplished. The panel rotated through the vendors so that no >>> single >>>> vendor could always have the benefit of his predecessor's insight; >>>> the >>>> results here shall be by vendor in alphabetical order and will >>>> include >>>> additional comment for clarification. A comment "none" can mean just >>>> that, or it can mean that there was insufficient data to determine >>>> the >>>> cause of the outcome. It should be noted that this article is not to >>>> promote any single vendor, so it will concentrate its comments on GUI >>>> screen reader's ability rather than their failure. (More comment >>>> on the >>>> evolution of GUI screen readers will be presented in the Summary >>>> section >>>> of this article.) Each of the fifteen questions shall be >>>> presented, and >>>> followed with each vendor's performance. Note: The first 4 >>>> questions >>>> regard Microsoft Access, MS's database. 1. Find and launch >>>> Microsoft >>>> Access. WinVision: achieved task Comments: none outSPOKEN: >>>> achieved task Comments: none Window-Eyes: achieved task >>>> Comments: >>>> none JFW: achieved task Comments: none Screen Reader/2: >>>> achieved >>>> task Comments: none Window Bridge: achieved task Comments: >>>> none >>>> SPW: achieved task Comments: none 2. Using the file menu and >>> dialog >>>> box, open the file called dwdb from the \dwfiles directory. >>>> WinVision: >>>> achieved task Comments: none outSPOKEN: achieved task Comments: >>>> none Window-Eyes: achieved task Comments: none JFW: >>>> achieved task >>>> Comments: none SR/2: achieved task Comments: none Window >>>> Bridge: >>>> achieved task Comments: none SPW: achieved task Comments: none >>>> 3. Open the employee table in view, arrow down and tab into the >>>> employee data, and demonstrate how to read the field data and field >>>> title. WinVision: failed task Comments: Could not read either >>>> cell >>>> contents or header. outSPOKEN: achieved task with difficulty >>> Comments: >>>> Had to invoke mouse cursor to read header. Window-Eyes: failed task >>>> Comments: Could not read either cell contents or header; very >>>> verbose. >>>> JFW: achieved task with difficulty Comments: Read cell contents but >>> had >>>> to enter mouse cursor mode and search to read header. SR/2: >>> achieved >>>> task Comments: Screen Reader/2 was the only program that could >>>> read the >>>> field and header without entering into an additional mode or review >>> mode, >>>> or having to press numerous keystrokes just to confirm the header. >>>> Window Bridge: achieved task with difficulty Comments: Had to >>>> re-boot. >>>> SPW: failed task Comments: none 4. Close the employee table >>>> window >>>> (CTRL+F4), and from the View menu select Query (Alt+V, Q). Now >>>> select >>>> the DWquery, and in two separate dialog boxes you will be prompted to >>>> enter data . In the first you will be asked to enter a position. In >>> the >>>> second you will be asked to enter a country. Demonstrate your >>>> program's >>>> ability to find and read the appropriate prompts. (Editor's note: >>>> the >>>> prompt here is located on the line above the entry field.) WinVision: >>>> failed task Comments: Could not re-read edit fields. outSPOKEN: >>>> achieved task with difficulty Comments: Could read dialogue box, but >>> did >>>> not speak automatically and needed to enter mouse cursor mode to >>>> re-read the field. Window-Eyes: failed task Comments: Very >>>> verbose; >>>> could not re-read edit field. JFW: achieved task Comments: none >>>> SR/2: achieved task with difficulty Comments: Read fields, but >>>> did not >>>> speak automatically. Window Bridge: failed task Comments: none >>> SPW: >>>> failed task Comments: none Note: The following questions refer to >>>> operations in Excel, Microsoft's spread sheet. 5. Load >>>> MS-Excel and, >>>> from the file menu, select "open". Using the dialog box, open a file >>>> called invoice.xls from the \dwfile directory. (Note: MS-Excel >>>> is an >>>> example of how Microsoft does not necessarily maintain its >>>> programming >>>> conventions; this presents an obstacle for GUI speech developers.) >>>> WinVision: achieved task Comments: none outSPOKEN: failed task >>>> Comments: Had to re-boot and could not open file. Window-Eyes: n/a >>>> Comments: GW Micro declined to demonstrate their program in >>>> MS-Excel at >>>> this time, but would be working on access to it in the future. JFW: >>>> achieved task Comments: none SR/2: achieved task Comments: >>>> none >>>> Window Bridge: failed task Comments: none SPW: achieved task >>>> with >>>> difficulty Comments: Had to re-boot. 6. Have the speech announce >>> the >>>> cell pointer location. WinVision: achieved task with difficulty >>>> Comments: Could not easily speak coordinates. outSPOKEN: >>>> achieved task >>>> with difficulty Comments: Could not easily speak coordinates; used >>>> review mode. Window-Eyes: n/a Comments: none JFW: achieved >>>> task >>>> Comments: Used INS-C macro. SR/2: achieved task Comments: none >>>> Window Bridge: failed task Comments: Could not read because of font >>>> type. SPW: achieved task Comments: none 7. Read the text in >>> cells >>>> A1 to A6. WinVision: failed task Comments: none outSPOKEN: >>>> achieved task Comments: none Window-Eyes: n/a Comments: none >>>> JFW: achieved task Comments: none SR/2: achieved task Comments: >>>> none Window Bridge: failed task Comments: none SPW: >>>> achieved task >>>> Comments: none 8. Go to cell F22. Enter the 4-digit number >>>> provided >>>> by the panel; this number is too big for the cell. How does your >>> program >>>> let you know this? WinVision: failed task Comments: Could not >>>> read >>>> cell contents or overflow. outSPOKEN: achieved task Comments: >>>> Had to >>>> read line instead of cell contents and overflow. Window-Eyes: n/a >>>> Comments: none JFW: achieved task Comments: none SR/2: >>>> achieved >>>> task Comments: none Window Bridge: failed task Comments: Could >>> not >>>> read overflow. SPW: achieved task with difficulty Comments: none >>>> Note: The next section regards the World Wide Web (WWW) browser, >>>> Netscape; IBM used their own WWW access, Web Explorer. 9. Load >>>> the web >>>> browser; Get the URL of the current sample web site. WinVision: >>>> achieved task Comments: none outSPOKEN: achieved task Comments: >>>> none Window-Eyes: achieved task Comments: none JFW: >>>> achieved task >>>> Comments: none SR/2: achieved task Comments: none Window >>>> Bridge: >>>> achieved task Comments: none SPW: achieved task Comments: none >>>> 10. When on-line and going to a new location, many times the new web >>>> page takes some time to load. How do you determine when the >>>> entire page >>>> has been received or downloaded? WinVision: achieved task >>>> Comments: >>>> none outSPOKEN: achieved task Comments: none Window-Eyes: >>> achieved >>>> task Comments: none JFW: achieved task Comments: none SR/2: >>>> achieved task Comments: SR/2 has a sound feature that indicates if a >>>> download is still in progress. Window Bridge: achieved task >>>> Comments: none SPW: achieved task with difficulty Comments: none >>>> 11. As you move up and down through the web page, how do you >>>> determine >>>> when you are at the top or bottom? Demonstrate this by finding the >>>> bottom of the current page. WinVision: achieved task Comments: >>>> none >>>> outSPOKEN: achieved task Comments: none Window-Eyes: achieved >>>> task >>>> Comments: none JFW: achieved task Comments: none SR/2: >>>> achieved >>>> task Comments: none Window Bridge: achieved task with difficulty >>>> Comments: none SPW: achieved task with difficulty Comments: none >>>> 12. Find and move to the link on the screen. Now, click the "Let >>>> the >>>> Internet duel begin" link. WinVision: achieved task Comments: >>>> none >>>> outSPOKEN: achieved task Comments: none Window-Eyes: failed task >>>> Comments: Found link but could not select as the cursor was not >>>> on the >>>> link. JFW: achieved task Comments: none SR/2: achieved task >>>> Comments: none Window Bridge: achieved task with difficulty >>> Comments: >>>> none SPW: achieved task with difficulty Comments: Had trouble >>>> distinguishing between hypertext link and standard text. 13. If a >>> link >>>> is not visible on the current page, can your program find it on other >>>> pages without going to those pages? Note: This question was deemed >>>> invalid since sighted users would not be using Windows in this >>>> fashion. >>>> Though not discussed at the seminar, a link Goto/locator might give >>> blind >>>> users an advantage over their sighted colleagues. 14. Perform the >>>> following seven-step process to get to a specific page: Click on >>>> the >>>> netsuite products link; Page down twice; Click on the WebWhacker >>>> link; >>>> Page down three times; Click on the Windows 3.1 v1.0 link; Page >>>> down >>>> once; Click on the download link. You are now at a form. Please >>>> fill >>>> in the last name and first name fields. WinVision: failed task >>>> Comments: Could not find entry field. outSPOKEN: achieved task >>>> Comments: none Window-Eyes: failed task Comments: Could not get >>>> mouse pointer in edit box for data input. JFW: achieved task >>> Comments: >>>> none SR/2: achieved task Comments: none Window Bridge: >>>> achieved >>>> task Comments: none SPW: failed task Comments: Could not get >>> mouse >>>> pointer in edit box for data input. 15. When online in a >>>> newspaper with >>>> multiple columns, read a single column. WinVision: failed task >>>> Comments: Could not establish single-column window to read. >>>> outSPOKEN: >>>> achieved task with difficulty Comments: Was the only program that >>>> could >>>> read newspaper columns, but with many keystrokes and some column >>>> defining. Window-Eyes: failed task Comments: Could not establish >>>> single-column window to read. JFW: failed task Comments: Could >>>> not >>>> establish single-column window to read. SR/2: failed task >>>> Comments: >>>> Could not establish single-column window to read. Window Bridge: >>>> failed >>>> task Comments: Could not establish single-column window to >>>> read. SPW: >>>> achieved task with difficulty Comments: Could not establish >>>> single-column with speech, but could use braille display to >>>> differentiate between columns. 16. Start MS-Word. From the file >>>> menu >>>> open a file called dw.doc from the \dwfiles directory. From the tool >>>> menu, select spellcheck. Using the tab key, now demonstrate your >>>> program's ability to read the items in this dialog box. WinVision: >>>> achieved task with difficulty Comments: Had to tab to short keys to >>> read >>>> them; did not spell misspelled or optional words. outSPOKEN: >>>> achieved task with difficulty Comments: Had to tab to short keys to >>> read >>>> them; did not spell misspelled or optional words. Window-Eyes: >>>> achieved task with difficulty Comments: Had to tab to short keys to >>> read >>>> them; did not spell misspelled or optional words. JFW: achieved >>> task >>>> Comments: none SR/2: achieved task Comments: none Window >>>> Bridge: >>>> achieved task with difficulty Comments: Had to tab to short keys to >>> read >>>> them; did not spell misspelled or optional words. SPW: achieved >>> task >>>> with difficulty Comments: Had to tab to short keys to read them; did >>> not >>>> spell misspelled or optional words. Summary and Commentary We >>>> gleaned a few conclusions from Dueling Windows. It showed that we >>>> have >>>> come a long way in GUI screen reader development since only a few, >>>> short >>>> years ago when access to GUI appeared a dismal prospect. Dueling >>> Windows >>>> further showed, however, that we have a long way to go in GUI screen >>>> reader development. Few tasks, by any vendor, could be easily >>>> performed >>>> with a single keystroke or short series of keystrokes; though certain >>>> individual tasks could be performed relatively easily, access to an >>>> entire process or series of tasks seemed burdensome and never >>>> completely >>>> straight-forward. The seminar brought to light some important >>>> points to >>>> consider regarding this. DOS was not accessible in its early state, >>> and >>>> is often still inaccessible. Access to Windows, however, is >>>> occurring >>> at >>>> an earlier stage in Windows development than did access in DOS's >>>> development. Also, if certain programming conventions are upheld in >>>> Windows, Windows may become much more predictable and workable >>>> than DOS >>>> did; remember that GUI access is in its fledgling state and will >>>> become >>>> much more sophisticated. One key issue for access to Windows is the >>>> need, or lack thereof, to build one's own speech configurations or >>>> profiles. If an access program works well with a strict, >>>> conventional >>>> set-up of an application program, but fails to easily be >>>> configured for >>> a >>>> slight variation of the original application program, this is >>>> obviously >>>> not desirable. Also, key issues for GUI screen reader users are the >>>> ability to re-read text and fields that have been spoken once as a >>> window >>>> opens, and the ability to spell words in any area of the screen where >>>> they are only spoken in context. Since Windows is somewhat >>>> predictable >>>> and generally constant in its presentation, and, since certain >>>> Windows >>>> application programs have become more conventional than others, it is >>> not >>>> unreasonable to assume that the differences between access >>>> programs will >>>> become more philosophy-based, rather than task-based. The >>>> conventions >>> of >>>> Windows, or domination of Microsoft, essentially requires all GUI >>>> screen >>>> readers to eventually have full and complete access to these >>>> programs. >>>> The distinctions are likely to appear in the interface where more or >>> less >>>> transparency is desired, etc. Lastly, Dueling Windows may be >>>> providing a >>>> marketing aspect that could benefit the users. Though certainly not >>>> all-encompassing, it injects a competitiveness into the screen reader >>>> market that might not otherwise be there. Much product >>>> development for >>>> the blind has suffered as a result of a lack of competition, so >>>> the user >>>> may benefit from this current surge in GUI access >>>> competitiveness. The >>>> only danger with this added competitiveness is if the small pool of >>>> developers and vendors in this market lose respect for another's >>> product, >>>> or cease to work with other developers. Judging from the March CSUN >>>> event, this is certainly not the case yet, and SAF looks forward >>>> to the >>>> next Dueling Windows. Post Scriptum: SAF welcomes any or all of the >>> GUI >>>> screen reader vendors to respond to any misrepresentations or errors >>> this >>>> article may infer regarding their product. -----Original >>>> Message----- >>>> From: Ian Westerland via Talk Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 3:04 PM >>> To: >>>> Sky Mundell via Talk Cc: Ian Westerland Subject: Re: contacting >>>> Doug. >>>> Hello everyone. I am still using Window-Eyes and the various Android >>>> apps in my smart phone but I think the 4 B's might apply here to FS, >>> Jaws >>>> and screen reading access generally. What are the 4 B's? Big, >>>> Bigger, >>>> Biggest, Bust. In the longr term, some good will come of it all >>> depending >>>> on who thinks about what is behind the need for top quality Screen >>>> reading access. There are some good things around. Just some >>>> thoughts >>>> I've had as I have observed and participated in some of this >>>> Accessibility change and development. Ian Westerland On >>>> 8/19/2017 7:24 >>>> AM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote: > FS is getting desperate to hang >>>> onto >>>> their market at any cost. With JAWS > having a monopoly in the paid >>>> market now, the price of JAWS might go up. > > -----Original >>>> Message----- > From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] >>> On >>>> Behalf Of Reeva > Webb via Talk > Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 >>> 11:42 >>>> AM > To: Window-Eyes Discussion List > Cc: Reeva Webb > >>>> Subject: RE: >>>> contacting Doug. > > You can tell fs starting to get desperate. >>>> Fs 10 >>>> or 15 years ago wouldn't > have given you discounts on anything. For >>> most >>>> the out of the box > accessibility, android, apple etc. will work for >>>> what they need to do. I'm > curious though, is anyone from gw or pre >>>> merger ai2 still around.? > Everyone i can think of seems to be gone. >>> > >>>>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never >>>>> promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" >>>>> Walls >>> Of Jericho >>>>> > Reeva > > On Aug 17, 2017 1:00 PM, "Joseph Norton via Talk" < >>> > >>>> talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote: > >> Ah, I think I see where >>>> you’re going with this. >> >> Are you saying things may be >>>> getting >>> to >>>> a point where the cost of >> maintaining JAWS is greater than anyone >>>> wants to pay in terms of >> keeping the company going? >> >> I >>>> know >>>> it’s not because of Narrator being a superior product on the >> >>> Windows >>>> side. It is improving, but, not enough for many of us to get >> >>>> rid of >>>> JAWS. >> >> >> >> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >> >> From: >>>> Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk >> Sent: Wednesday, >>>> August 16, 2017 9:02 PM >> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Dennis >>>> Long' >> Subject: RE: contacting Doug. >> >> Well, Michael, I >>>> once >>>> opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not >> win in the >>>> courts, >>>> was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts >> and coterie of >>>> friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat! >> >> The merger >>>> with AI >>>> Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to >> see it >>>> happen, but >>>> what voice do I have? >> >> I long for the day when all these >>>> adaptive >>>> equipment >> developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS >>>> publicly; >>>> may be, just >> may be, they'll have better stability! Now, we >>>> keep our >>>> eyes on the >> sparrow, Jaws may be taking its last breath as the >>> venture >>>> capitalists >> will soon squash its fins! Then it'll be Apple and >>> Google >>>> to fill the >> void at least here in the United States! >> >> >>>> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> >> --- >> >>> This >>>> email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> >>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or >>> opinions >>>> presented in this email are solely those of the >> author and do not >>>> necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership >>>> options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ >> >>>> options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/joseph.norton%40gmail.com. >> For >>>> subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ >> >>>> listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at >> >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/ private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or >>> opinions >>>> presented in this email are solely those of the >> author and do not >>>> necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership >>>> options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ >> >>>> options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jadedangelpromises%40gmail.com. >>>> >> For >>>> subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ >> >>>> listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at >> >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/ private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > >>>> _______________________________________________ > Any views or >>>> opinions >>>> presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not >>>> necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership >>>> options, >>>> visit > >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes. >>> com/skyt%40shaw.ca. >>>>> For subscription options, visit > >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List >>>> archives can be found at > >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > Any views or >>>> opinions >>>> presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not >>>> necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership >>>> options, >>>> visit > >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes. >>> com/iwesterl%40bigpond.net.au. >>>>> For subscription options, visit > >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List >>>> archives can be found at > >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > >>>> _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions >>>> presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not >>>> necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, >>>> visit >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes. >>> com/russ94577%40gmail.com. >>>> For subscription options, visit >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List >>>> archives can be found at >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>> _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions >>>> presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not >>>> necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, >>>> visit >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes. >>> com/loyrg2845%40gmail.com. >>>> For subscription options, visit >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List >>>> archives can be found at >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>> _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions >>>> presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not >>>> necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, >>>> visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes. >>> com/the.bee%40frontier.com. >>>> For subscription options, visit >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List >>>> archives can be found at >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>> >>> For membership options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes. >>> com/russ94577%40gmail.com. >>> For subscription options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>> >>> For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ >>> options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/skyt%40shaw.ca. >>> For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ >>> listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/ private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>> >>> For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ >>> options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jadedangelpromises%40gmail.com. >>> For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ >>> listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/ private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/dennisl1982%40gmail.com. >> >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/steve.jacobson%40visi.com. >> >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/butchb%40shellworld.net. >> >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > _______________________________________________ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/bjnite%40windstream.net. > > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/loyrg2845%40gmail.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/skyt%40shaw.ca. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. 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