Josh, This is more complicated than you are considering. I do not believe that JSAY is a VFO product for example. Remember, too, that VFO technically owns this list now, and the list is intended to help those who are trying to use Window-Eyes as long as they can. They would be completely within their rights to discontinue this list given the latest topics. In my situation, JAWS and Window-Eyes work in some cases with my employer's software where NVDA does not. NVDA is a good program, but I needed to move to JAWS to do my job now, regardless of whether NVDA will work some day with the same software. In some cases, NVDA is ahead of JAWS and Window-Eyes, but this is partly due to the fact that NVDA has been able to concentrate on new features. Both Window-Eyes and JAWS have had to keep twenty years or more of old code running to make certain they continued to work correctly for those of us who were dependent on them to do our jobs.
I do not know who is moderating this list now. It certainly is not me, but I want to see this list continue to support those using Window-Eyes. Best regards, Steve Jacobson -----Original Message----- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi....@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy via Talk Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 9:41 AM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> Cc: Josh Kennedy <joshuakennedy...@comcast.net> Subject: Re: window-eyes open source? let me correct myself here. the j-say product costs around $400 or $300. that is for jaws. dictation bridge for all screen readers costs, and will cost, $0. On 9/11/2017 8:27 AM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote: > No you don't dictation bridge is being developed for jaws it won't cost > $400. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail....@lists.window-eyes.com] > On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy via Talk > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 7:42 AM > To: Window-Eyes Discussion List > Cc: Josh Kennedy > Subject: Re: window-eyes open source? > > NVDA works with dragon naturally speaking, and windows speech recognition, > and it does it for free, with an addon called dictation bridge. with jaws > you have to pay an extra $400 or so for that functionality. > > > > On 9/10/2017 11:51 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote: >> The problem is that FS has too much of a monopoly in the paid market. >> Monopolies are illegal. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On >> Behalf Of Dennis Long via Talk >> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 8:51 PM >> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' >> Cc: Dennis Long >> Subject: RE: window-eyes open source? >> >> It is far from being as good as jaws! >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Talk >> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail....@lists.window-eyes.com] >> On Behalf Of Loy via Talk >> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 6:55 PM >> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List >> Cc: Loy >> Subject: Re: window-eyes open source? >> >> NVDA is not far from being as good as JAWS and I can see it happening >> that people will download the free program instead of paying hundreds >> of dollars for a very similar program. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Josh Kennedy via Talk >> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List >> Cc: Josh Kennedy >> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 4:23 PM >> Subject: Re: window-eyes open source? >> >> >> Why couldn't it happen? >> >> >> >> On 9/10/2017 3:47 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote: >> > I don't see that happening. >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Talk >> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail....@lists.window-eyes.com] On >> Behalf Of Josh Kennedy via Talk >> > Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 1:08 PM >> > To: David; Window-Eyes Discussion List >> > Cc: Josh Kennedy >> > Subject: Re: window-eyes open source? >> > >> > I wonder what VFO would do if NVDA starting eating into their >> business profits? If free open source NVDA would become way more >> popular than jaws and would still be open source? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 9/10/2017 2:54 AM, David wrote: >> >> Matter of fact, this question was raised a couple of days after the >> >> anouncement of the discontinued development of WinEyes. I will get >> >> back to what Doug said back then. First of all, let's take a >> quick look at facts. >> >> >> >> Had it been as easy as WinEyes would have been a stand-alone > software, >> >> with all its coding done 'in-house', things would have been >> pretty easy. >> >> And had it been that Doug and Dan had been the only ones to develop >> >> the software, they could have decided whatever they wanted. >> >> >> >> Things are not that easy! >> >> First of all, what doug pointed out, was that to get the better >> >> functionality of WinEyes, they had to reach certain agreements with > - >> >> for instance Adobe - to get access to third-party software, kind of >> >> behind the scene. If they open-sourced the code, now these > techniques >> >> might be disclosed to the public, threatening the products of the >> >> third-party manufacturer. In turn, this of course would lead to >> >> people, not working on assistive technology at all, to get hold of > the >> >> key for the backdoor of - say Adobe's reader - and use it for > unwanted >> >> activity, or even malware development. >> >> >> >> Secondly, WinEyes had a feature of offering you loads of apps. Many > of >> >> them are open-sourced, but WinEyes holds a chance for the app >> >> developer to cryptize his code, for protecting against peekers. This >> >> was a benefit, for instance when the app has to access a server, and >> >> maybe even use some login credencials, to perform the activity. >> >> Without me knowing for sure, we could think of an app like >> >> WeatherOrNot, which has to access a server, retrieve weather >> details, and process them for you. >> >> Now if the developer has reached a given agreement with the >> >> weather-server provider, that his app will gain free access, under > the >> >> condition of not disclosing the login credencials, we are in trouble >> >> in open-sourcing WinEyes. By doing so, we would disclose the >> >> cryptizing code, opening up for people to break the cryptized code > of >> >> the app, get to the credencials, and then misuse it. >> >> >> >> Part of the agreement GW made with their app developers, by > providing >> >> the cryptizing feature, was to keep the app code an enclosed > program. >> >> They might get into legal issues, should they disclose the > cryptizer, >> >> thereby lay bare the very code of the app developer, who in turn > might >> >> sue GW for breaking the agreement. This is kind of backed up, by a >> >> message Doug posted several years back, when someone claimed they > had >> >> broken the cryptizer. >> >> >> >> Furthermore, it has been confirmed from Aaron, that some of the apps >> >> directly from GW, like AppGet, do hold credencials for accessing the >> >> servers of GW. It is unlikely that they want to have these > credencials >> >> open-sourced. In particular so, if you remember the attack someone >> >> gave them a few years back, when the code of the GWToolkit was > hacked, >> >> and gave many a WinEyes user quite a shock the morning they turned > on >> >> their computer, and got a threatening message on their screen. >> >> >> >> Mind you, GW got into a cooperation with Microsoft, when they >> >> introduced the WEForOffice program. Even here, they told that this >> >> agreement would put them in specially close relationship with the >> >> ingeneers of Microsoft. Who knows what closures might be involved >> >> there, and which would be broken, had WE got open-sourced. >> >> >> >> Now let's move back to the answer Doug gave back in the spring this >> >> year. The above is a bit of an elaboration of what he said. You will >> >> find his answer in the archives, but in very short terms: >> >> NOPE! WinEyes code CANNNOT go open-source; If for no other >> >> reasons, due to the infringement of third-party agreements involved. >> >> >> >> All of this, actually leads me to once again raising the very > question: >> >> Does VFO even have access to the WinEyes code? >> >> VFO might have bought AISquared, thereby also the former GWMicro. > But >> >> they might not have bought the copyright of the source-code. And >> >> perhaps that was never intended either. Seems all they wanted, was > to >> >> rid the market of any competition, period. Who knows, maybe Doug >> >> simply hit the Delete-key, the last thing before he handed in the > key >> >> for the Office front-door? >> >> >> >> And to assume that VFO's tech personel would bother to plow the >> >> thousands of lines of coding for WinEyes, in hope of hitting the >> >> technique used to perform a simple task, is out of range. It would >> >> take hours, days or even weeks, to figure why things have been done >> >> the way they were. Or, to find the part of a signed contract, that >> >> possibly could be renewed in VFO's favor. Far more cost-effective, > and >> >> resource sufficient, to simply look at the behavior of the WinEyes >> >> product, and sit down developing the same bahavior from scratch. > Even >> >> calling Adobe, Microsoft, AVG, Avast and so forth, asking for a > brand >> >> new contract. A contract VFO already has in place. So my big guess > is, >> >> VFO DO NOT NEED the code of the WinEyes screen reader, and never > did. >> >> They needed the market, and that is what they've currently got. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 9/10/2017 3:01 AM, Josh Kennedy via Talk wrote: >> >> > hi >> >> > >> >> > Is there any possibility since window eyes is no longer > supported >> >> to get the window-eyes source code make it open source and put it up >> >> on the github website? then other developers could keep >> developing window eyes. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > -- >> > sent with mozilla thunderbird >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of >> the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> > >> > For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/dennisl1 >> 982%40 >> gmail.com. >> > For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> > List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of >> the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> > >> > For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/joshuake >> nnedy2 >> 01%40comcast.net. >> > For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> > List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> >> -- >> sent with mozilla thunderbird >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of >> the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/loyrg284 >> 5%40gm >> ail.com. >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/dennisl1 >> 982%40 >> gmail.com. >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/skyt%40s >> haw.ca >> . >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/joshuakennedy2 > 01%40comcast.net. >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > -- > sent with mozilla thunderbird > > _______________________________________________ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/dennisl1982%40 > gmail.com. > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > > _______________________________________________ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/joshuakennedy2 01%40comcast.net. > For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com -- sent with mozilla thunderbird _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/steve.jacobson %40visi.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
