I think Jeff has a good point. We do need to move our work forward. Now. Some of us need to to hook the community with hosting resources; some need to build out the infrastructure.
Upfront words from folks like Jeff can refocus us. Civility is good, but sometime a community needs to air it's differences. So long as we can now focus our energies on getting things done (and agree that there are somecore tasks to do in the immediate future), we should feel good that passion is coming out on this list. Jeff, we've already chatted. Let's connect and pull some resources together. I am working with NPS on a server. I do ask everyone to get ideas out. Let's know what the problems are so that we can focus on solving them and put them into a roadmap with a timeline and people to move specific tasks forward. John Sent from my iPhone, so please ignore the typos. On Dec 9, 2009, at 2:24 PM, Jeffrey Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: I will admit that I have lost all patience with the 'all talk and no do' set on this list. When y'all get around to actually 'doing' something rather than talking about things you don't actually know about ... let us know. Jeff On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Christopher Lippitt <[email protected]> wrote: In my opinion, the project will not be taken seriously if just throws a half working peice of code up on the web and there is no community actively developing/securing resources/strategizing about the projects direction and who it is intended to serve. I believe that's what happened last time....and now a group of people are working to restart the project take a slightly more organized and, in my opinion, sustainable way. I also think that a bit of courtesy could go along way toward progress. There are bound to be disagreements in this community. That is part of good vibrant discussion, but there also has to be general courtesy and respect in our debates and conversations. It seems to me that the more we can limit the off the cuff remarks and biting replies the better off we will all be. Chris On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Jeffrey Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: Once again though ... my point is that if we do not START with a decent size dataset that has reasonable (15m) coverage globally and good (1m) coverage in the US (i.e. the existing, long available public domain data) ... this project will once again NOT be taken seriously. Starting with 'very small sample data sets' is not the way to do this IMO ... we have all (well, I hope) worked with small datasets on our own machines ... that doesn't prove anything. A 'few TB' will NOT cut it. Jeff On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Charles R. Schmidt <[email protected]> wrote: I don't think we should rush to get anything on-line. We can run the code locally for testing and development, or even on a small machine with a very small sample data set. Let's organize potential hosting resources in the wiki. As Jeff mentioned we have the DIY, AWS and NPS options on the table now. We also have OAM members at a number of different universities. I imagine with the right proposal in hand we could secure plenty of resources from our various institutions. I am willing to lead the effort at Arizona State University. I'm sure we can get something back up at San Diego State University. However, we need to be clear in what we ask for. I can setup a server and several TB of storage at ASU, but would be thrown in a closest and forgotten about in 6 months. However, if we ask for the right resources I think ASU would offer long term support this project with both hardware and manpower, which is far more valuable than a server in a closet. Would anyone like to volunteer to lead the wiki effort to organize resources and development? - Charlie. On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Jeffrey Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: We have at least 3 options for disk for the first big 'node' (possibly more?). 1) Buy/Build a machine with a decent amount of disk to get this thing off the ground. Once built, it would require somewhere to host it, but that could be less of a problem than putting the machine together at first. By 'decent' ... I mean at least 10TB probably as much as 20 or 30 just to get the ball rolling here, otherwise we quickly (immediately) run into resource issues. This kind of machine (30TB disk) can be built for roughly $7.5-10k. It seems to me that this kind of $ could be raised if we had an appropriate plan. 2) Use amazon for the time being and move things around later. I have experience working with the key people at AWS, and I'm guessing I could arrange for some amount of resources for us to work with if idea was proposed correctly. I'm willing to work on this option if it seems like the logical thing to do. 3) NPS Has offered hardware for us to work with. My suspicion is getting over all the hurdles in order to actually use the hardware will be more difficult than either of the other two options, although over the long term, this could certainly be a large node in the system. I just dont want 'waiting' on it to become available to become a blocker. Others? The way I see it, this iteration of OAM must start with a decent set of base data in the first 'node' or it will continue to NOT be taken seriously. A decent set of base data would probably include a landsat or spot mosaic and the entire set of NAIP imagery for the US ... which together once cached would quickly fill a 30TB disk appliance. As crschmidt once said, its not a problem of too little data, its a problem of too much. If we cant figure out how to simply process/serve the basic sets of free/open data out there, then we should just stop now and go back to using google and bing. Jeff On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Schuyler Erle <[email protected]> wrote: On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 16:02 -1000, Brian Russo wrote: I think if people are too preoccupied with being on an official committee or having this title and that nothing will ever get done. Okay, everyone, hold your horses, please. Of course, you're all right about nothing of substance getting done yet, but, to my knowledge, no one on this list has ever tried to build a collaborative project of this scope before, and a little organizing ahead of time isn't going to hurt. At some point soon, we're going to have to take collective decisions and it's best for us to have some framework for doing that. Now that we've got that out of the way, let's talk about what to do next. We've got crschmidt's original code, and we've got the code that the Livni brothers have started on. Where should we deploy it to start hacking on and poking at? If no one else has a server, I've got one that can host the catalog, but it doesn't have much disk space. 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