There are two separate issues here. - the use of a trademark to refer to the routes in question
- copyright of the route itself (in the sense that the sequence of way segments is considered a creative work, or potentially protected as a database) Both claims cannot simply be dismissed IMHO, the former however is not really a big concern. In the worst case we could give the routes descriptive names and leave it at that. The later could have substantially more impact. French courts have, as courts around the world, have found that they have jurisdiction in cases where content has been distributed in their country via the Internet regardless of where the servers are located. This clearly could rise to a level of having an impact on the OSMF and the central infrastructure. IANAL Simon Am 21.02.2013 13:59, schrieb Nick Whitelegg: > > IANAL but just a thought... is it legal anyway to copyright route > references? That is what the GRs appear to me to be to my eyes. > > Can the Department of Transport copyright the reference "M25" in the > uk and prohibit its use in all other publications? > > Nick > > -----Pieren <pier...@gmail.com> wrote: ----- > To: legal-t...@openstreetmap.org > From: Pieren <pier...@gmail.com> > Date: 21/02/2013 12:24PM > Subject: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in > France > > Hi all, > > I'm submitting here a question about the legality of keeping French > long hiking routes called "GR" or "GRP" or "PR" in OSM. All these > routes are very well known, have sign posts and references on the > ground, e.g. the "GR20" in Corsica (but many are still missing or very > incomplete in OSM). See these examples in [1a] and [1b]. These routes > have been created by the national hiking sport federation (FFRP, > Fédération Française de Randonnée Pédestre). You can see them on the > ground by the trail marks visible at regular intervals but also on > most of the commercial maps in France. > > But we are facing two legal issues in France. The problems are not new > but become more critical in my opinion (see below). > First issue : it is the hiking route names themselves. For all of them > created by the FFRP, the names are registered trademarks and cannot be > used without permission (see question below). Second issue : the > routes themselves are copyrighted. > The list of trademarks is listed in the legal page of the FFRP web > site([2]) : > - (some are just used in books or commercial maps but) > - GR® > - GR Pays® > - PR® > - "... à pied" > - "les environs de ... à pied" > - "Sentiers des patrimoines" > are very common (especially the first 3 : "GR", "GR Pays" (or "GRP") > and "PR" followed by a reference number. > > Question : the FFRP itself is an editor of hiking bookguides or has > contracts with the IGN (the French state establishment for > geographical information) for publishing commercial hiking maps, > giving them royalties in return (an important income for the > federation). So the FFRP is always actively contacting or bringing > actions (sue) against private competitors or simple websites using > their trademarks and routes on maps or book editors not paying any > fees (see e.g. [3]). But some web sites seem to use them without fee > ([4]). It seems that the FFRP is tolerating non-commercial use. Since > 2009, 2 or 3 OSM contributors (including myself) tried to contact the > FFRP to get the permission they request to use their copyrighted route > names into OSM, wihout any reply until now. Earlier last year (Feb > 2012), two members of the French local chapter met them physically and > presented OSM. They showed some interest but repeated again and > clearly that using the "GR", "PR", etc trademarks is not allowed > without permission, a permission they didn't provide during that > meeting (minutes available here [7]). They also didn't say anything > about the future. it seems finally that they are looking for a > replacement of their current map data provider (IGN) but they want to > preserve their current commercial model. Note that the sign-posts > (trail marks) are also protected (like a logo). After that meeting, we > are several people thinking that we have the remove all references of > the trademarks of the FFRP into OSM db, usually tagged in "name" or > "ref", either on ways or route relations or both. What's your opinion > ? > > Second issue : it is maybe a more specific French issue here because > the "routes" themselves can be copyrighted when they are considered as > "original work". A famous case confirmed this with the IGN (publishing > the FFRP maps) sueing a guidebook editor [5] and confirmed by the > highest court in France (1ere chambre de la cour de cassation de > Paris, decision of 30 june 1998 [8]. I don't know if this is the same > in other countries but a significant part of the OSM community in > France would consider deleting the FFRP hiking routes completely (and > not only the trademarks mentionned in Q1). > > Personnaly, I think that a route is not considered as an "original > work" (or not enough original) in many jurisdictions. But still, > keeping them in OSM is raising a legal insecurity in all DB extracts > stored or distributed on French servers or applications. For these > reasons, all FFRP hiking routes (represented in OSM by relations of > type "route", "route=hiking") in France should be completely removed > from the OSM database. What do you think ? > > Pieren > > [1a] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1107414 > [1b] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2650826 > [2] http://www.ffrandonnee.fr/_67/mentions-legales.aspx (in French) > [3] http://www.balades-pyrenees.com/numero_55.htm (in French) > [4] http://www.gr-infos.com/ > [5] > http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichJuriJudi.do?oldAction=rechJuriJudi&idTexte=JURITEXT000006938477&fastReqId=330410198&fastPos=9 > (in French) > [6] http://hiking.lonvia.de/fr/?zoom=13&lat=42.95532&lon=-0.61968 > [7] http://listes.openstreetmap.fr/wws/arc/ca/2012-02/msg00000.html > (in French, require ML registration first) > [8] > http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichJuriJudi.do?oldAction=rechJuriJudi&idTexte=JURITEXT000007041272&fastReqId=109256579&fastPos=1 > > _______________________________________________ > legal-talk mailing list > legal-t...@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk > > > _______________________________________________ > legal-talk mailing list > legal-t...@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
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