Greetings, Glad to see many views and comments coming up on this topic.
Best, - Enock OSMGhana | UMaT, Tarkwa enockseth.github.io On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 11:50 AM, nicolas chavent <nicolas.chav...@gmail.com > wrote: > Hi John, > > There is a local OSM group active in Benin since mid 2013, > This group is skilled they got trained via (capacity building missions run > by the collective Projet EOF) and had been always self training and growing > their skills, growing their community and training Academic, Benin Red > Cross Volunteers, Civil workers from local government, folks from the local > tech scene etc... > This group has a few equipments at hand, > They share a co-working space (Blolab) in Cotonou with other tech actors, > They have been active in their country (several places and various mapping > project) and in Western Africa through regional 3 to 4 weeks long capacity > building missions involving a lot of field and remote mapping work > They operate mostly on a voluntary basis with low means and they grow > their map and their community. > They decided to crowdfund for these 275km2 high res imagery in Cotonou > because this has been blocking them and that a few additional GPS Units > will not make the difference, but this imagery will do! > > Since the Haiti quake, community empowerment is at the center of the > agenda of humanitarian and development actors as shown by the Katmandu > Living Lab experience in the Nepal Earthquake (praised in mainstream and > professionals see The Guardian (1)) or a glance at the agenda of the World > Humanitarian Summit will gather this coming May in Istambul. Benin (but > also Sénégal, Mali, Togo, Burkina, Niger, Ivory Coast) show the example of > organized OpenStreetMap collectives and communities. They are building > their map and their community without the support of charities, or > supporting charities, local / central government, academic, development/ > humanitarian actors. > > All this is happening in Western Africa as the result of capacity building > programs that I started for HOT US Inc in July 2013 with the support of the > Organisation Internationale de la Francophonie (OIF) and then since Fall > 2013 outside of HOT US Inc within the collective Projet EOF (mixing folks > from French speaking countries from the "north" & "south"). All those > actions have been conceived and carried out with very low cost budget > schemes (under which HOT US Inc decided not to operate) to support the > emerging of local OSM communities and this has been working thanks to > experienced persons (there are many of those in the ProjetEOF who by the > way build the HOT Project and HOT US Inc in the early days) and > enthusisasm. > > Now that a local OSM community like Benin is organized, why can't this > community act autonomously, why should it resort to a charity to map their > town? Why should it inform and discuss only in the hot mailing list and not > on the talk list where the community life of OSM is happening? Your email > cast doubts or rise questions about how a charity work with local > communities, about partnerships and partners roles. > > With a true respect for local OSM communities groups, no doubt that there > is some potential to fulfill from the projects you mentioned (and that are > not new to OSM Bénin as well as Projet EOF folks), let's see realize that > potential but not by speaking on top of those communities and by not > recognizing their strengths. > > Distributing additional Digital Globe or Mapbox high resolution satellite > imagery in other Areas Of Interest (AOIs) of Benin and Weestern Africa > outside of those 275 km2 of Cotonou almost secured can be a first step. > > Thanks > Nicolas > > > > > (1) : > http://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2016/apr/25/could-mapping-tech-revolutionise-disaster-response?CMP=share_btn_tw > > On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 1:52 AM, john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >John, Ulule does not charge 40%, the fees reasonably amount to 7 or 8%, >> that's a notable difference. >> >> If I donate $100 to a charity the net cost to me is $60 and $100 is more >> or less available at the end. If I donate $60 to the crowdsourcing then >> $55 arrives at the end. So if we can get creative with a charity the money >> goes further. Different western countries have different rules but >> basically if it can be channeled through a charity more cash ends up on the >> ground. >> >> West Africa, WHO are vacinating against polio is either there or not far >> away, they need maps where do people live. MSF have HOT projects around >> that area. Have a dig in HOT and you'll see sponsored projects around. >> All the HOT projects suffer from having not that many people on the ground >> for street names etc. The charities have purchased image data before but >> also DG and Mapbox have been very helpful to them. If you're serious >> about wanting to improve the state of the map in Bénin then working with >> a charity might help both sides. >> >> I note there is HOT mapping in Togo which is close by at the moment >> "Bâtiments, routes, chemins, zones résidentielles" which I assume is the >> sort of thing you're after. Have a chat to the organizers of that project >> and see which charities are involved if any. There are four projects in >> Bénin at the moment. >> >> Currently for Cotonou there is some Mapbox imagery not the greatest but >> I think you could squeeze a few more highways etc out of it. >> >> The HOT mailing list is probably the place to start and to be honest I >> thunk that is where the discussion should be taking place, but currently >> they're distracted by a couple of earthquakes. I think the most effective >> mapping comes out of a mixture of local knowledge and armchair mapping >> where the map is blank. Some of the charities are very well organised MSF >> for example have developed expertise in the optimum size of HOT project and >> complexity. They also have tame validators and that seems to be key to >> getting a HOT project completed in a reasonable time frame. >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data >> is worth reading through. >> >> The Treasury Board Canada might seem an unlikely source of assistance but >> they have been instrumental in creating a open data license that is >> acceptable to OSM and are working with at least one African country to use >> the same license. I think Jo has been importing a large number of schools >> complete with names in one African country, it took a considerable amount >> of time to get the license sorted out. I understand if you have enough >> mappers on the ground everything can get mapped but for quickness sometimes >> a few high quality imports that are carefully imported can have benefits. >> >> So if you can raise the cash fine but if you can get the imagery in other >> ways perhaps a few GPS units or a few smart phones for collecting POI data >> might be an acceptable way of spending the cash raised. If your crowd >> funding doesn't quite raise enough cash then sometimes there are other ways >> to get the imagery. >> >> Cheerio John >> >> >> >> On 25 April 2016 at 18:26, nicolas chavent <nicolas.chav...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi there, >>> >>> Wow! None of the folks from the Association OSM Bénin nor those from the >>> collective ProjetEOF who worked with the Benin mappers on this crowdfunding >>> for imagery on 275km2 of Cotonou would have expected that email traffic. >>> >>> Great to see this talk on the talk list! >>> Great also to read that this talk may develop into future new creative >>> ways for Digital Globe and Map Box Satellite to assist OSM in Benin (many >>> places outside of Cotonou which is likely to be handled through this >>> crowdfunding) and in Western Africa (many places also) not to mention other >>> places of this earth. I am not sure Christoph, if Kevin and Mikel will meet >>> your criteria of 100% opendata imagery, surely this would be creative and >>> awesome. >>> >>> A couple of points from my side, prior the mappers from Benin will talk >>> and share their perspectives on this topic and the reasons that lead them >>> to crowdfund for Cotonou and to bring this project to its end. >>> >>> At reading this thread in my late evening, comes first the surprise, >>> that Simon puts up nicely, I am re-using his very words: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *I'm slightly taken back by the number of people wanting to jump in and >>> make decisions for a local community on a topic that has little bearing >>> outside of their region. Surely is must be their prerogative to decide how >>> best to get imagery for their area, if at all (I do suspect that they will >>> welcome alternative offers, but that is obviously up to them). Further I >>> don't quite follow Christoph's argument. There is very very little imagery >>> used in OSM that is available on open (data) terms. As long as the results >>> of tracing etc are essentially unencumbered nobody seems to have had >>> issues with using non-free sources starting off with yahoo in 2007 and yes >>> we've paid with money and in other ways for imagery in many places.* >>> >>> Frederik, field work is highly valued and practised in Benin and Western >>> Africa as reflected in mappers stats, lists, wiki, social media (Twitter >>> and Facebook) of mappers and local groups. The Benin guys as emailed have >>> been actively mapping via field survey and remote mapping in Benin and >>> Western Africa over the past 3 years. They have been active also in Cotonou >>> through this time, with their own means, voluntarily in a poor country. >>> They figured out that this situation had to change in Cotonou and got >>> organized. One thing, you can be positive about, is that access to high res >>> imagery over Cotonou will not kill their appetite for field work. >>> >>> Christoph you are right. Yes, it would have been better to acquire an >>> imagery that could be fully distributed in opendata and not for tracing in >>> OSM only the way this work for Bing, MapBox, specific humanitarian contexts >>> (some Charter activations, the Imagery To The Crowd/ Map Give program of >>> the US State Department) but this was out of reach. Shall the Benin folks >>> have to keep surveying voluntarily the economic capital of their country >>> instead of making the current compromise which has many precedents in OSM? >>> Although the imagery is not fully served and distributed in opendata, >>> through the generating of OSM data over Cotonou, it will mark a >>> breakthrough for the local opendata movement by making the OSM base map of >>> the city available to all. Like in many other places, this eventually will >>> foster over time via a critical mass approach, the opening of geographical >>> information. This is in that sense that opendata is meant in the email, >>> blog post and project description in Ulule. Last, I agree with your idea >>> (seeking full opendata imagery) but think that in making it happening one >>> shall differentiate territories and contexts and that Cotonou, Benin is not >>> ideal. >>> >>> John, Ulule does not charge 40%, the fees reasonably amount to 7 or 8%, >>> that's a notable difference. >>> >>> John, Kevin and Mikel. Without commenting any further Simon first >>> paragraph. Technically, what you are proposing (*using the crowdfunding >>> money for other purposes*) may not even be possible or at least is not >>> a good practise (not to say more). This may result into back clashes and >>> distrust with the over 56 people who funded this project (*the purchase >>> of high resolution imagery over Cotonou for OSM Benin*) or a bad record >>> with Ulule. This can be negative for OSM Benin folks in the future shall >>> they decide to crowdfund again for a similar or a different need. >>> >>> Kevin and Mikel, the @OSMBenin twitter account indicates that >>> - your offers to assist OSM Bénin on Cotonou with imagery on the behalf >>> of Digital Globe and Mapbox have been well heard. >>> - the imagery need over that part of Cotonou will be addressed via this >>> crowdfunding. >>> - OSM Benin is keen on submitting other Areas Of Interest (AOIs) in >>> Benin and in Western African in coordination with other Western African >>> local OSM groups, they indicate that they are working on a uMap with >>> priority AOIs. >>> This could be a creative and positive development of this crowdfunding. >>> >>> Last, John which charities have you in minds to come to Benin and do the >>> field work Kevin alluded to for the amount OSM Benin proposed to raise E >>> 2,2k and how do you see this relating to the work of those mappers from >>> Benin ? >>> >>> Best, >>> Nicolas >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 10:47 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer < >>> dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> sent from a phone >>>> >>>> > Il giorno 25 apr 2016, alle ore 20:41, Christoph Hormann < >>>> chris_horm...@gmx.de> ha scritto: >>>> > >>>> > what is most readily available and most convenient for them and there >>>> > is little incentive in providing alternatives just because they are >>>> > open if they don't provide significant advantages for practical use. >>>> >>>> >>>> regarding Bing aerial imagery, other imagery will likely be better >>>> referenced, at least this is my experience around here, even if the >>>> resolution of Bing might be higher. >>>> >>>> cheers, >>>> Martin >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> talk mailing list >>>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Nicolas Chavent >>> Projet OpenStreetMap (OSM) >>> Projet Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT) >>> Projet Espace OSM Francophone (EOF) >>> Mobile (FRA): +33 (0)6 52 40 78 20 >>> Mobile (CIV): +225 78 12 76 99 >>> <nicolas.chav...@hotosm.org> >>> Email: nicolas.chav...@gmail.com >>> Skype: c_nicolas >>> Twitter: nicolas_chavent >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> talk mailing list >>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Nicolas Chavent > Projet OpenStreetMap (OSM) > Projet Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT) > Projet Espace OSM Francophone (EOF) > Mobile (FRA): +33 (0)6 52 40 78 20 > Mobile (CIV): +225 78 12 76 99 > <nicolas.chav...@hotosm.org> > Email: nicolas.chav...@gmail.com > Skype: c_nicolas > Twitter: nicolas_chavent > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > >
_______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk