I know that « trunk » is country-dependent but why not moving it to a worldwide definition ? Administrative classification could be moved to other tags :)
djakk Le ven. 23 févr. 2018 à 16:06, Matej Lieskovský <lieskovsky.ma...@gmail.com> a écrit : > Greetings > I'd like to caution against using this system globally. In Czechia, roads > are formally classified into classes, which influence signage, ref numbers > and so on. Deploying this system here would make the tag confusing/useless > and would likely face enormous backlash. I have no problems with using this > system in countries without a clearly defined road classification, but > please don't touch the countries where there is no doubt about what class > any given road is. > Happy mapping! > > On 22 February 2018 at 16:20, djakk djakk <djakk.dj...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I totally agree with you, the definition you provide, >> administrative-free, tends to the same osm map between countries. >> >> djakk >> >> Le jeu. 15 févr. 2018 à 19:18, Fernando Trebien < >> fernando.treb...@gmail.com> a écrit : >> >>> Landing on this discussion several months late. I've just heard of it >>> by reading a wiki talk page [1]. >>> >>> Since 13 February 2009, the wiki [2] criticises highway classification >>> as problematic/unverifiable. This has also been subject to a lot of >>> controversy (and edit wars) in my local community (Brazil), especially >>> regarding the effect of (lack of) pavement. >>> >>> In trying to achieve greater consensus some years ago, I decided to >>> seek opinions elsewhere and finally I arrived at this scheme [3] which >>> I think is very useful, if not perfect yet. It can be easily >>> summarised like this: >>> - trunk: best routes between large/important cities >>> - primary: best routes between cities and above >>> - secondary: best routes between towns/suburbs and above >>> - tertiary: best routes between villages/neighbourhoods and above >>> - unclassified: best routes between other place=* and above >>> >>> For example, the best route between two villages would be at least >>> tertiary. So would be the best route between a village and a town or a >>> city. Parts of this route might have a higher class in case they are >>> part of a route between more important places. >>> >>> It surely raises the problem of determining optimal routes. Maybe a >>> sensible criterion would be average travel time without traffic >>> congestion. A number of vehicles may be selected for this average - >>> could be motorcycle+car+bus+truck, or simply car+truck. >>> >>> Early results in my area [4, in Portuguese] seem promising and have >>> produced more consensus than any previous proposals. To me, this >>> method seems to: >>> - resist alternations in classification along the same road >>> - work across borders (where classification discontinuities are >>> expected because each country is using different classification >>> criteria) >>> - account for road network topology >>> - work in countries with mostly precarious/unpaved roads or >>> without/unknown official highway classes >>> - work between settlements as well as within settlements >>> >>> Borderline cases are probably inescapable in any system that does not >>> use solely criteria that are directly verifiable - from the ground, or >>> from the law. Maybe, in certain developed countries, the system is so >>> well organized that merely checking signs/laws is sufficient. That >>> does not mean it is like that everywhere on the planet. >>> >>> OSM has so far received a lot of input from communities in developed >>> countries (mostly Europe, North America and Australia) and hasn't >>> given much attention to less developed/organized countries. What comes >>> closest to this is what the HOT Team does, but the judgment of road >>> classification one can do from satellite images in a foreign country >>> is much more limited than the criteria that have been raised in this >>> thread so far. >>> >>> I wouldn't endorse tags such as maxspeed:practical due to lack of >>> verifiability (it should be obvious that different types of vehicles >>> would achieve different practical speeds). It is better to use the >>> legal speed in maxspeed=* and describe the practical reason for a >>> lower speed using surface=*, smoothness=*, and, who knows, maybe the >>> not yet approved hazard=* [5] (though that is intended for signed >>> hazards, not subjective/opinionated hazards). >>> >>> For the sake of long-term sanity, I also wouldn't mix the purpose of >>> one tag with the purpose of other tags. To describe the surface, there >>> is surface=*, smoothness=* and tracktype=*. To describe access rights, >>> there is access=*, foot=*, bicycle=*, motor_vehicle=*, etc. To >>> describe legal speed, maxspeed=*. To describe curves, there's >>> geometry. >>> >>> Purpose, perhaps, is the main issue. What is the purpose of highway >>> classification? Is it to save us the work of adding extra tags? Is it >>> to allow the renderer to produce a cleaner output at low zoom levels? >>> Is it to allow routers to assume default speeds? Maybe to guide their >>> routing heuristics? Is it to express some sort of importance? If so, >>> by which perspective - urbanistic, traffic engineering, movement, >>> commercial value, cultural/fame, historic, some combination of those? >>> Should the purpose be the same in every country? >>> >>> It may be interesting to also discuss the classification adopted by >>> other maps. I don't have a reference for Google (originally TeleAtlas) >>> or Here.com (originally Navteq), but Waze publishes its per-country >>> road classification criteria in its wiki. [6-16] >>> >>> [1] >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:highway%3Dtrunk#change_.22high_performance.22_to_.22high_importance.22 >>> [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Verifiability#Problematic_tags >>> [3] >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Ftrebien/Drafts/Generic_highway_classification_principles#Schematic_diagram_and_general_comments >>> [4] https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=674296#p674296 >>> [5] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/hazard >>> [6] https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/USA/Road_types >>> [7] https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/UnitedKingdom/Roads#Road_types >>> [8] https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/Canada/Main_Page#Road_Types >>> [9] https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/Commons/Road_Types/India >>> [10] >>> https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/Brazil/Como_categorizar_e_nomear_vias >>> [11] >>> https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/Germany/Kartenlegende_(Deutschland) >>> [12] https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/France/Classification_France >>> [13] https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/Italy/Tipologia_delle_strade >>> [14] https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/Indonesia/Panduan_Tipe_Jalan >>> [15] https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/%E9%81%93%E8%B7%AF%E7%B1%BB%E5%9E%8B >>> [16] >>> https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/%E3%80%8C%E9%81%93%E8%B7%AF%E7%A8%AE%E5%88%A5%E3%80%8D >>> >>> -- >>> Fernando Trebien >>> +55 (51) 99962-5409 <+55%2051%2099962-5409> >>> >>> "Nullius in verba." >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> talk mailing list >>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> >> >
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