There is a very big difference between "lively debate", and hurling insults at individuals. Being of a different opinion than our system administrators and expressing that, if very long in the tooth and annoying in its repetitiveness is quite OK, and like most I simply switched to ignoring the individuals posts. Calling people names is off limits and doesn't need any additional confirmation in a CoC or whatever.
Simon Am 25.06.2019 um 10:45 schrieb Harry Wood: > I definitely support moderation actions on the diaries (or indeed any > channel) when somebody steps way out of line. > > > It is unfortunate because this means that quite a few useful comments > > written by some of you - the main subject was ways of fighting diary > > spam - were dropped too. > > Do you have the option of *editing* a diary entry to delete sections > of it, or even delete the whole text? e.g. leaving a message > "---This section has been removed because it did not meet our > community standards----". > > Not saying you should have done so in this case. Just wondering if it > is an option. > This would leave the comments. Some of the comments might then lack > context, but it might still be a better outcome if the discussion was > useful. > Weirdly it's also a stronger moderation slap-down. The perpetrator > suffers the ignominy of this message publicly on display within their > diary. I've seen this approach a website elsewhere. > I guess one consideration is that when diaries are moderated away, > they are actually "soft deleted" whereas *editing* a diary would lose > the original text. > > Anyway... on the broader principle. At the risk of bringing back the > "code of conduct" discussion... If we set out somewhere a set of > community standards in terms of "be nice to eachother", but also the > types of topics we expect to appear as OpenStreetMap diaries, what > would we set out? > > I think we might decide that the standards of behaviour on the diaries > should be higher than those of the mailing list. I mean the > counterargument on the mailing list is always the desire to promote a > "space for lively debate", but diaries are less of a discussion > medium, more of a broadcast medium. We don't want to disallow people > putting forth "political" thoughts or manifestos about the project, > which inevitably will stray into bad-mouthing groups or even > individuals on occasions, but in general we want diaries to be more > carefully worded and well thought out. On balance a diary entry should > be "respectful", "considerate", and "collaborative" ...but I'm quoting > from the code of conduct now :-) > > We could also say diary entries should "make sense", e.g. minimum > length. Not just some a few random words. This would allow us to > delete quite a few weird diary entries from new users which clutter > things (And they're possibly spammers flagging), but I'd be creating > more work for moderations with that idea. > > We could also say diary entries should not be used a place to pose a > question, or engage in communication styles which obviously fit better > on other channels. For example I saw someone post a diary entry asking > if the tile servers were currently offline. He argued that this was > the best way to get attention, which may well be true, but it was an > obvious misuse of the diaries feature to my mind. > > Harry > > > > On Tuesday, 25 June 2019, 00:23:34 BST, Frederik Ramm > <frede...@remote.org> wrote: > > > Hi, > > I am writing this with my DWG hat on. > > The OSM user diaries are not routinely moderated but the DWG has the > technical means to hide comments or whole posts, and will make use of > these in extreme situations. > > I am writing to inform you that there as been one such situation, where > a contributor time and time again over recent months used various > expletives and insults to belittle the work of others in the project. > He's been told to stop it numerous times; at one point when told that > insults don't get him anywhere he said that he disagreed, because he had > actually got a reaction to an insult. In another situation where he was > told that his message could be heard better if he weren't wrapping it in > so much bile, he responded "don't tell me what to do". > > We first tried to only hide those comments that were absolutely > inacceptable ("viciuos brat", "violent little shit" etc.) but even those > messages that were factual were always seasoned with a sentence > explaining how this and that other person was an idiot, amateur, etc., > so in the end we just hid a handful of blog entries altogether. We > wouldn't normally moderate someone for calling someone else an "amateur" > but if it's framed by constant, stronger abuse then that lowers the bar > considerably. > > It is unfortunate because this means that quite a few useful comments > written by some of you - the main subject was ways of fighting diary > spam - were dropped too. > > As I said, it's a rare exception for us to have to do this; these > messages, especially because they weren't one-off heat-of-the-moment > posts but a sustained onslaught, far surpassed in offensiveness anything > I've seen on this or any other OSM mailing list in recent years. > > I won't say who the user is - those of you who were involved will > recognize it, and those who weren't probably shouldn't waste any time > with it. > > Bye > Frederik > > -- > Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org > <mailto:frede...@remote.org> ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
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