Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier...@hotmail.com> wrote: > My own experience is the same as Debby's, I do not remember ever seeing a > fight at a milonga in my entire life.
I've actually seen one (but only one). It was between a regular well-known dancer and teacher (whose name will be familiar to many, but which I shall not mention), and a younger man (also Argentine) who was attending milongas frequently at that time--a folkloric and tango dancer (and apparently a teacher)--and it was at Niño Bien. Those who were there will remember it well from this description, since it is not something one easily forgets precisely because it happens so infrequently (it was perhaps a couple of years ago). A flurry of punches were thrown and one of the parties was briefly on the floor (slipped, I think, rather than being knocked down). No serious physical damage was done (it was over in seconds as they were quickly separated), but it created quite a stir and certainly spoiled the mood of the milonga for the rest of the evening. I wasn't close enough to see what happened and no one else seemed to have either, but I don't doubt that it got started by one or the other inadvertently (or intentionally?) creating a navigation problem (real or imagined) for the other. > We frequently simulate bumping into each other, we do it on purpose, and then > give each other dirty looks, all part of a comedy. :)) Yes, but as often as not, it's a real dirty look. Sometimes it's justified and sometimes it's not (heck, they are usually BOTH giving each other dirty looks, and they can't both be right as to whose fault it was). I've been at the receiving and giving end of these (usually at the same time)--it's just a little harmless muscle/testosterone flexing and it's forgotten seconds later. But I cannot agree entirely with the following of Sergio's statements (and usually I find myself agreeing with almost *everything* that Sergio says!), unless they are very much narrowed in their context: > It is extremely unusual for a couple to disturb another while dancing, unless > a lot of tourists are around. > The quality of dancing has always been the same. > Now the same as before, people understand that the milonga is not a place for > beginners. Beginners belong in tango lessons and practicas but not in the > milongas. Taking them one at a time: > It is extremely unusual for a couple to disturb another while dancing, unless > a lot of tourists are around. Taken literally, I agree. But it implies that it's ONLY the tourists causing this. You just have to go to La Viruta to realize that it is not. There are a lot of young beginning Argentine dancers there, and many of them seem to be oblivious to the presence of anyone else on the dance floor. But this is more related to the second point below (and there are a lot of tourists around at La Viruta, so technically it's still a true statement, but it's not just the tourists causing it). > The quality of dancing has always been the same. > Now the same as before, people understand that the milonga is not a place for > beginners. Beginners belong in tango lessons and practicas but not in the > milongas. Unfortunately, this is no longer true, unless you are restricting your observation to some traditional milongas. There are two reasons that this has eroded: 1. Yes, the presence of tourists. First of all, there may be people who are intermediate or even advanced in their home community but are beginners in Buenos Aires milongas though they haven't realized it (at least as far as navigation skills are concerned). Secondly, it is an unreasonable expectation that a tango enthusiast who has saved his vacation time and money to make a for-him special trip to Buenos Aires is going to accept the proposition that he should stay away from the "mythical milongas of Shangri-la a.k.a. Buenos Aires" that he has specially come for because he has only reached práctica eligibility in his skills. Maybe it should be that way, but it's not going to happen even if the person in question accepts the proposition (that milongas are just for those who already know how to dance well at milongas). The best one can hope for is increased sensitivity to the importance of floorcraft and the more crowded conditions. 2. The reduced importance amongst younger Argentines of the Milonga traditions, especially those that to them seem arbitrary and/or restrictive. One young Argentine woman I met at TangoCool práctica a couple of years ago (a regular and pretty good dancer) said that she hates "all that nonsense of cabeceo and stuff ... it's so much better just to be direct and ask someone to dance!" (loose translation). (I disagree with her, but that's not the point.) Another example: All my non-Tango dancing Argentine friends have heard about La Viruta (and it seems about no other milonga, except possibly Confiteria Ideal). It seems to be well known in Buenos Aires in non-Tango circles. Many Argentines especially the younger ones who want to "try out" Tango will as often as not go to La Viruta to take their inexpensive beginners' class with teachers and other students in or close to their age group, and stay for the Milonga. The Milonga may be included in the price, they have a limited budget, and they're with their friends and have decided to make a night out of it at La Viruta. Who's going to tell them that well, on weekend nights La Viruta is really a Milonga and they should come back on Wednesday nights (or whatever is práctica night) and find some other way to entertain themselves? The teachers and organizers at La Viruta will not--they WANT people to stay and enjoy themselves and want to come back (and spend money on drinks and food). Don't get me wrong: I lament the dying of many of these traditions and support those who wish to uphold them (and occasionally try to do so myself, though I've long since ceased to be dogmatic about it), but it's an uphill battle at best and, though I hate to say it, perhaps a losing one. And although La Viruta is perhaps an extreme in some sense, if you compare it with say, Lo de Celia at the other end of the spectrum (not the most traditional of the traditional milongas either, but one whose name is perhaps more familiar to those on this list), there are still any number of milongas in between these two points in the spectrum that exhibit the same "problems" to correspondingly lesser or greater degrees. Shahrukh _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l