DOWN WITH ANY PAYMENTS! You cannot have true freedome if you have to pay to use it DO NOT implement this it is very stupid.
On Sat, 6 Jul 2002, u Uler wrote: > First, I would rather pay a single entity that I'm familiar with that pay > some unknown stranger. Of course, I wouldn't want a corrupt corporation > running micropayments, and there are many individuals that I know and trust. > But I'd have a hard time convincing myself to pay an absolute stranger. > (This is assuming that payments for transfers are direct from node to node). > > Second, I don't want to completely disregard the promises of this kind of > system. If each node charged an amount for data (flat rate for all data > types, of course; should rates vary by the amount of data or what? Premiums > for speed?), then the requesting node would fork over that amount of money > for each transaction. Let's put this into an scenario: > > I make a request from my node. My node contacts another node, which doesn't > have the data. The second node, Node 2, requests data from Node 3. Node 3 > has the data. It charges $0.001 (1/10th of a cent) for each unit of data, > which is, say, 5 1500 byte chunks (we could have a standard splitfile/packet > size to equate payments?). That would be a total of $0.005 for that > transaction. Node 3 tells this to Node 2, and Node 2 forks over the digital > cash. Node 3 sends the data to Node 2. Node 2 tells Node 1 (my node) that > each datum will cost $0.001. Node 1 says okay, sends the cash, and Node 2 > sends that data. > > Of course, what if Node 2 wanted to charge $0.002 for every datum? Well, if > Node 1 was willing to pay that much, then the transaction would be processed > and the exchange would occur. If Node 1 thought that to be too much, then it > would try to get the data from somewhere else. > > So, what is this money? I don't know much about how digital cash works. Is > it possible to create a secure currency that cannot be copied and is still > anonymous? Maybe it doesn't need to be truly anonymous if it works in the > way that Freenet works. Nobody needs to know what the data was, per se. They > shouldn't know, because certain data types should not cost more than others. > All data should cost the same. > > How will the money be "verified?" Here's an idea: Individual pieces of > currency are licensed to individual entities, marked by their private key or > whatnot. The pieces of data (I'll call them "credits" just to be creative) > are stamped with the identity (The public or private?) of the original > licensee (which is encrypted with the "banks" public key (only the bank can > read it with it's private key). > > Now comes the fun part. The currency is transferred to another party in a > transaction. So, should that node "verify" the currency with a central bank > (a fail point, for sure), should it verify only with non trusted stranger > nodes (less bandwidth), or what? Would it be better for the currency to die > once it was transferred once (this could waste a lot of bandwidth)? Any > ideas on how currency should work? I know there's a huge body of information > out there. Who knows a lot about digital cash? > > So, what do we do about bad nodes? Do we blacklist known bad currency > providers, or should each individual node maintain a personal blacklist of > nodes that it has had bad experiences with (I like this idea better). > > Well, that's my two cents. > > Wesley. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jim > > Sent: Friday, 05 July, 2002 15:23 > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: [Tech] Re: Mailing list and Micropayments > > > > > > In the micropayment scheme I'm thinking of, each node would determine the > > prices it would charge for insertions and retrievals. There > > would not be a > > central organization that would charge people to use freenet. > > There wouldn't > > even have to be a single 'bank' since various 'currencies' could > > be exchanged > > freely. Also, people wouldn't be required to use cash or credit cards to > > accumulate these currencies. They could simply set up a node and collect > > fees for insertions and retrievals. Then they could use that to make > > insertions and retrievals from other nodes. In short, no one > > would be forced > > to use micropayments, there need not be a single point of failure and > > anonymity should not be compromised. > > > > > I'm no core developer, but I do have an option on micropayments. I think > > > they'd be a great way to raise revenue, and they might help move Freenet > > > development forward a little bit. Also, I'd be willing to pay something > > > (aka, donate) and I'm thinking about doing so. However, not > > everybody has a > > > lot of money to spare, and I think that the contributions > > people are giving > > > that don't include money are already doing a great service for Freenet. > > > > > In English, I don't think that micropayments are a good idea if they are > > > mandatory. However, I think that Christopher's idea of having > > two divisions > > > of Freenet, one for the general public, and one for contributors, might > > > work, and is at least worth a shot to see if it works. I'm > > willing to give > > > it a try. Maybe. > > > > > However, I think that it's important to keep Freenet free. As > > in gratis. At > > > least to use. I think there should still be a public Freenet, > > and I think > > > that the people who run micropayment nodes should still > > contribute some of > > > their node to the general public Freenet. It shouldn't all go > > to some sort > > > of pay network. > > > > > I think that money would make more people want to run a node, > > but I think it > > > would make less people want to use the network. And I'm not sure that > > > micropayments are necessary for the network to actually work. > > > > > Again, I'm willing to give it a thought, and maybe a try. > > > > > Wesley. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Tech mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://hawk.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tech mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://hawk.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech > _______________________________________________ Tech mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hawk.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech
