On Sun, Nov 01, 2020 at 04:14:19PM -0500, VARIK VALEFOR wrote: > Mr. MCINTYRE: > > > Mr. MACINTYRE... you must mean my dad! > :^) > > > commas are really subjective, so a massive comma diff is always likely > > to be problematic. sentence clauses do not always need commas. sometimes > > commas just make the text harder to read. > However, the comma rules which are specified at the Web site whose URL > was attached to VARIK's previous message _do_ exist for a reason; the > correct application of these rules tends to increase clarity. But there > do exist unjustifiable "stylistic" choices. >
well, there are not so much comma rules as comma suggestions. > > in a if/then sentence structure, "then" indicates the second > > clause. the comma is redundant. "then" performs the role of a comma > However, omitting the comma which is placed after an introductory > clause but before "then" can lead to confusion. > > ===== BEGIN PROOF ===== > Let there exist a sentence $s =$ "If $x > y$ then $z$.". > > For all sentences, the meaning of a sentence is ambiguous iff > $\#\left\{\textrm{FEASIBLE MEANING OF SENTENCE}\left\} > 1$. > > Sentence $s$ can be interpreted as "if $x > y$ then, $z$", > which is approximately semantically equivalent to "if $x > y$ at > the previously-mentioned point in time, then $z$". Although such > an interpretation is not terribly often correct, bad habits, e.g., > overlooking such potential sources of confusion, are formed quickly. > > However, sentence $s$ can also be interpreted as "if $x > y$, then > $z$", which is not semantically equivalent to "if $x > y$ at the > previously-mentioned point in time, then $z$". > > Therefore, the meaning of sentence $s$ is ambiguous as a result of > omitting the comma which would have been placed after the > introductory clause but before "then". > > Therefore, omitting the comma which is placed after the > introductory clause but before "then" can lead to ambiguity. > ===== END PROOF ===== > yes, the point being that there are not so much rules as suggestions. > > i think you should follow philip's advice to supply a small diff, check > > whether such changes made wholesale would be welcome, then proceed. > WILCO. > roger that! > > i;d be happy to look over a diff where the clauses are not marked with > > "then", such as here: > See the attached diffs. > > > in this case it is really hard to tell where one clause ends and another > > starts - the comma improves readability. in addition, "an nosuchinstance" > > should > > be "a nosuchinstance". > Fixing incorrect article usage was not the goal of the previous diff > assortment; > the solution to this type of problem shall receive a dedicated > twenty-thousand-line message. :^) > if our manual pages require a twenty thousand line article fix diff i am hanging up my boots. i committed your diff - with thanks - but changed audio.4 to work without commas. thanks, jmc > KUTGW, > Varik "NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER!!!" Valefor > > ===== BEGIN SLIGHTLY-LESS-LONG-ASS DIFFS ===== > diff --git a/share/man/man4/audio.4 b/share/man/man4/audio.4 > index 94a1c227c2f..00d099e392d 100644 > --- a/share/man/man4/audio.4 > +++ b/share/man/man4/audio.4 > @@ -166,11 +166,13 @@ Bytes per sample; if specified, it must be large enough > to hold all bits. > By default it's set to the smallest power of two large enough to hold > .Va bits . > .It Va sig > -If set (i.e. non-zero) then the samples are signed, > -otherwise they are unsigned. > +If set (i.e., non-zero), then the samples are signed; > +otherwise, they are unsigned. > +\"This sentence was a run-on. > .It Va le > If set, then the byte order is little endian; > -if not it is big endian; > +if not, it is big endian; > +\""[I]f not" is an introductory phrase, and introductory phrases are > followed by commas. > -it's meaningful only if > +It's meaningful only if > +\"The capitalisation of this sentence was fixed. > .Va bps > > 1. > > > > diff --git a/usr.bin/openssl/openssl.1 b/usr.bin/openssl/openssl.1 > index e364586f5ad..7c0af459fae 100644 > --- a/usr.bin/openssl/openssl.1 > +++ b/usr.bin/openssl/openssl.1 > @@ -1121,7 +1121,7 @@ commands. > .It Fl binary > Normally the input message is converted to "canonical" format which is > effectively using CR/LF as end of line, as required by the S/MIME > specification. > -When this option is present no translation occurs. > +When this option is present, no translation occurs. > This is useful when handling binary data which may not be in MIME format. > .It Fl CAfile Ar file > A file containing trusted CA certificates, used with > @@ -1971,7 +1971,8 @@ Encrypt the private key with DES, triple DES, or > any other cipher supported by > .Nm openssl . > A pass phrase is prompted for. > -If none of these options is specified the key is written in plain text. > +If none of these options are specified, the key is written in plain text. > +\""[I]s" was changed to "are" to maintain consistency with the rest of this > manual page. > This means that using the > .Nm ec > utility to read in an encrypted key with no > @@ -1982,7 +1983,7 @@ These options can only be used with PEM format output > files. > .It Fl in Ar file > The input file to read a key from, > or standard input if not specified. > -If the key is encrypted a pass phrase will be prompted for. > +If the key is encrypted, a pass phrase will be prompted for. > .It Fl inform Cm der | pem > The input format. > .It Fl noout > @@ -3356,7 +3358,7 @@ is acceptable, such as > .It Fl in Ar file > The input file to read from, > or standard input if not specified. > -If the key is encrypted a pass phrase will be prompted for. > +If the key is encrypted, a pass phrase will be prompted for. > .It Fl inform Cm der | pem > The input format. > .It Fl noout > @@ -3529,8 +3532,8 @@ For pss > mode only this option specifies the salt length. > Two special values are supported: > -1 sets the salt length to the digest length. > -When signing -2 sets the salt length to the maximum permissible value. > -When verifying -2 causes the salt length to be automatically determined > +When signing, -2 sets the salt length to the maximum permissible value. > +When verifying, -2 causes the salt length to be automatically determined > +\"Without commas, these sentences could potentially be needlessly > +\"confusing; "-2" could be misinterpreted as being the number of sets or > +\"causes. > based on the PSS block structure. > .El > .Pp > @@ -5202,7 +5205,7 @@ Normally, the input message is converted to > .Qq canonical > format which uses CR/LF as end of line, > as required by the S/MIME specification. > -When this option is present no translation occurs. > +When this option is present, no translation occurs. > This is useful when handling binary data which may not be in MIME format. > .It Fl CAfile Ar file > A > @@ -5601,7 +5605,7 @@ The policy that the client expects the TSA to use for > creating the > time stamp token. > Either dotted OID notation or OID names defined > in the config file can be used. > -If no policy is requested the TSA uses its own default policy. > +If no policy is requested, the TSA uses its own default policy. > .It Fl text > Output in human-readable text format instead of DER. > .El > @@ -5662,7 +5666,7 @@ The key password source. > The default policy to use for the response. > Either dotted OID notation or OID names defined > in the config file can be used. > -If no policy is requested the TSA uses its own default policy. > +If no policy is requested, the TSA uses its own default policy. > .It Fl queryfile Ar request.tsq > The file containing a DER-encoded time stamp request. > .It Fl section Ar tsa_section > @@ -5907,7 +5911,7 @@ The > should contain one or more CRLs in PEM format. > .It Fl crl_check > Check end entity certificate validity by attempting to look up a valid CRL. > -If a valid CRL cannot be found an error occurs. > +If a valid CRL cannot be found, an error occurs. > .It Fl crl_check_all > Check the validity of all certificates in the chain by attempting > to look up valid CRLs. > @@ -6560,7 +6564,7 @@ Print the full certificate in text form. > A trusted certificate is a certificate which has several > additional pieces of information attached to it such as the permitted > and prohibited uses of the certificate and an alias. > -When a certificate is being verified at least one certificate must be > trusted. > +When a certificate is being verified, at least one certificate must be > trusted. > By default, a trusted certificate must be stored locally and be a root CA. > The following are x509 trust settings options: > .Bl -tag -width "XXXX" > > > > diff --git a/usr.sbin/vipw/vipw.8 b/usr.sbin/vipw/vipw.8 > index f014901e361..3bd5973a9ed 100644 > --- a/usr.sbin/vipw/vipw.8 > +++ b/usr.sbin/vipw/vipw.8 > @@ -77,7 +77,7 @@ Which type of cipher is used to encrypt the password > information > depends on the configuration in > .Xr login.conf 5 . > .Sh ENVIRONMENT > -If the following environment variable exists it will be utilized by > +If the following environment variable exists, it will be utilized by > .Nm vipw : > .Bl -tag -width EDITOR > .It Ev EDITOR > > > > diff --git a/usr.sbin/ypserv/mkalias/mkalias.8 > b/usr.sbin/ypserv/mkalias/mkalias.8 > index cd3d8d4c751..5abbd4112d9 100644 > --- a/usr.sbin/ypserv/mkalias/mkalias.8 > +++ b/usr.sbin/ypserv/mkalias/mkalias.8 > @@ -72,7 +72,8 @@ Verbose mode. > Use this map as input. > .It Ar output > Use this map as output. > -If the output map isn't given don't create database. > +If the output map isn't given, don't create a database. > +\"An article was also needed in this sentence. > Can be useful together with > .Fl E > or > > > > diff --git a/usr.sbin/ypserv/ypserv/ypserv.8 b/usr.sbin/ypserv/ypserv/ypserv.8 > index 11dc16876ab..3f8fe3fe036 100644 > --- a/usr.sbin/ypserv/ypserv/ypserv.8 > +++ b/usr.sbin/ypserv/ypserv/ypserv.8 > @@ -68,12 +68,12 @@ This file can have any name since it's given by the > argument to > .Fl a > (use full path). > .Pp > -If a host isn't secure all queries to the server will result in a YP_NODOM > +If a host isn't secure, all queries to the server will result in a YP_NODOM > result. > .Pp > If the file > > > > diff --git a/usr.sbin/ypserv/ypserv/ypserv.acl.5 > b/usr.sbin/ypserv/ypserv/ypserv.acl.5 > index 2a3e50a4713..42af8ac8a55 100644 > --- a/usr.sbin/ypserv/ypserv/ypserv.acl.5 > +++ b/usr.sbin/ypserv/ypserv/ypserv.acl.5 > @@ -61,7 +61,7 @@ or failure depending on which of > or > .Ic deny > was specified. > -If no match was found in the list success is returned. > +If no match was found in the list, success is returned. > .Pp > If access is denied every call will cause a > .Dq no such domain > ===== END SLIGHTLY-LESS-LONG-ASS DIFFS ===== > > > > On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 20:21:54 +0000 > Jason McIntyre <j...@kerhand.co.uk> wrote: > > > hi. > > > > Mr. MACINTYRE... you must mean my dad! > > > > thank you for your mail. please read guenther's followup - he makes some > > very good points. > > > > commas are really subjective, so a massive comma diff is always likely > > to be problematic. sentence clauses do not always need commas. sometimes > > commas just make the text harder to read. > > > > look at your very first change: > > > > > KUTGW, > > > Varik "NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER!!!" Valefor > > > > > > *https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/punctuation/commas/commas_after_introductions.html > > > > > > ===== BEGIN DIFFS ===== > > > diff --git a/bin/csh/csh.1 b/bin/csh/csh.1 > > > index f984356e846..2e89bcc0c3a 100644 > > > --- a/bin/csh/csh.1 > > > +++ b/bin/csh/csh.1 > > > @@ -1039,7 +1039,7 @@ and > > > If braces > > > .Ql { > > > .Ql } > > > -appear in the command form then the modifiers > > > +appear in the command form, then the modifiers > > > > in a if/then sentence structure, "then" indicates the second > > clause. the comma is redundant. "then" performs the role of a comma. > > > > but depending on the wording, and the number of clauses, a comma might > > help to make it more readable. > > > > but you can;t just add them everywhere. > > > > i think you should follow philip's advice to supply a small diff, check > > whether such changes made wholesale would be welcome, then proceed. > > > > i;d be happy to look over a diff where the clauses are not marked with > > "then", such as here: > > > > > diff --git a/lib/libagentx/subagentx.3 b/lib/libagentx/subagentx.3 > > > index d283ff198e8..23055f4a94c 100644 > > > --- a/lib/libagentx/subagentx.3 > > > +++ b/lib/libagentx/subagentx.3 > > > @@ -524,8 +524,8 @@ Set the return value to an opaque value. > > > .It Fn subagentx_varbind_counter64 > > > Set the return value to an uint64_t of type counter64. > > > .It Fn subagentx_varbind_notfound > > > -When the request is of type GET return an nosuchinstance error. > > > -When the request is of type GETNEXT or GETBULK return an endofmibview > > > error. > > > +When the request is of type GET, return an nosuchinstance error. > > > +When the request is of type GETNEXT or GETBULK, return an endofmibview > > > error. > > > On endofmibview the next object is queried. > > > This function can only be called on objects that contain one or more > > > *_dynamic > > > indices. > > > > in this case it is really hard to tell where one clause ends and another > > starts - the comma improves readability. in addition, "an nosuchinstance" > > should > > be "a nosuchinstance". > > > > good luck! > > jmc