Toby, Taran has reminded us all well in time, the Debate is more on Telecentres. I am not siding camps - open source or proprietary. But I am highlighting issue raised by some members as why Telecentre have not yet organised. Here in India, in some urban areas the density of ICT center is as high as 2 centers in every square kilometer despite that all self-funded ICT centers have failed to organize & the biggest hindrance is the way they all operate. In order to make there service pricing point acceptable to their customer base. They are forced to ignore and infringe intellectual properties. From my database of voluntarily registered ICT centers, claim an average hourly rate of a mere 0.30 US dollars. Now that is low and barely meets the retail operation cost. Add to it if the entrepreneur opts to buy licensed software�s his capital investment will increase by 120%. Thus most opt for the easy way out. Using pirated copies may ensure a quick way to make his business sustainable but at the same time the entrepreneur has cut himself off to participate in the main stream of prospective opportunities. I understand from the web site, In Indonesia, APWKomitel, a nonprofit business association of Cyber Cafes http://www.apwkomitel.org/ . has made attempts to bridge these lacunae. I wonder if any member from the Association in on our list.
Looking to the diversity of the list members, we can collectively highlight this issue better than at our respective local levels. Further helping self aided ICT center to be on the right side of law will make them visible partners in progress. Sincerely Ashish Saboo President Association of Public Internet Access Provider, India http://www.apiap.cybernook.net Blog://apiap.cybernook.net FR Toby, Taran nous a rappel�s tout bien � temps, la discussion est plus sur Telecentres. Je ne suis pas les camps de d�grossissage - source ou classe des propri�taires ouverte. Mais j'accentue l'issue augment�e par quelques membres comme pourquoi Telecentre n'ont pas encore organis�. Ici en Inde, dans quelques secteurs urbains la densit� du centre d'ICT est aussi haute que 2 centres en chaque kilom�tre carr� en d�pit de cela tous les centres individu-plac�s d'ICT n'ont pas organis� et le plus grand obstacle est la mani�re ils que tout fonctionne. Afin de faire l� pour entretenir �valuer le point acceptable pour leur base de client. Ils sont forc�s d'ignorer et violer les propri�t�s intellectuelles. De ma base de donn�es des centres volontairement enregistr�s d'ICT, r�clamez un taux par heure moyen de seuls 0.30 dollar d'USA. Maintenant qu'est bas et couvre � peine le co�t d'activit� des ventes au d�tail. Ajoutez-vous � lui si l'entrepreneur choisit d'acheter son investissement de capital de l'�quipement du logiciel autoris� augmentera de 120%. Ainsi la plupart d'opter pour la sortie facile. Employer les copies pirat�es peut assurer une mani�re rapide de rendre ses affaires soutenables mais en m�me temps l'entrepreneur s'est coup� pour participer au jet principal des occasions �ventuelles. Je comprends du site Web, en Indon�sie, APWKomitel, une association de gens d'affaires sans but lucratif des caf�s http://www.apwkomitel.org/ de Cyber. a fait des tentatives de jeter un pont sur ces lacunes. Je me demande si n'importe quel membre de l'association dedans sur notre liste. Regardant � la diversit� des membres de liste, nous pouvons collectivement accentuer cette issue mieux qu'� nos niveaux locaux respectifs. Davantage de centre aidant d'ICT facilit� par individu � �tre du bon c�t� de la loi rendra leur les associ�s �vidents en marche. Sinc�rement Le Pr�sident Association d'Ashish Saboo du fournisseur Internet public d'Internet, Inde http://www.apiap.cybernook.net Blog://apiap.cybernook.net ES Toby, Taran nos ha recordado todo bien en tiempo, el discusi�n est� m�s en Telecentres. No soy campos que echan a un lado - fuente o propietario abierta. Pero estoy destacando la edici�n planteada por algunos miembros como porqu� Telecentre todav�a no ha organizado. Aqu� en la India, en algunas �reas urbanas la densidad del centro de ICT es tan alta como 2 centros en cada kil�metro cuadrado a pesar de eso todos los centros uno mismo-financiados de ICT no han podido organizar y el obst�culo m�s grande es la manera ellos que todo funciona. Para hacer all� para mantener la tasaci�n del punto aceptable a su base de cliente. Los fuerzan no hacer caso e infringir de caracter�sticas intelectuales. De mi base de datos de los centros voluntariamente registrados de ICT, demande un precio por hora medio d�lar del 0.30 de un E.E.U.U. meros. Ahora que es bajo y resuelve apenas el coste de la operaci�n al por menor. Agregue a �l si el empresario opta comprar su inversi�n de capitales del software licenciado aumenta antes de 120%. As� la mayor�a del OPT para la salida f�cil. Usar copias pirateadas puede asegurar una manera r�pida de hacer su negocio sostenible pero en el mismo tiempo el empresario se ha cortado apagado para participar en la corriente principal de oportunidades anticipadas. Entiendo del Web site, en Indonesia, APWKomitel, una asociaci�n de negocio no lucrativa de los caf�s http://www.apwkomitel.org/ de Cyber. ha hecho tentativas de tender un puente sobre estas lagunas. Me pregunto si cualquier miembro de la asociaci�n adentro en nuestra lista. Mirando a la diversidad de los miembros de la lista, podemos destacar colectivamente esta edici�n mejor que en nuestros niveles locales respectivos. El centro ayudado uno mismo adicional de ICT que ayuda a estar en el derecho de la ley har� les a socios visibles en marcha. Sinceramente Presidente Association de Ashish Saboo del abastecedor de acceso p�blico de Internet, la India http://www.apiap.cybernook.net Blog://apiap.cybernook.net On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 Toby Beresford wrote : >Ashish > >Very interesting article. It certainly makes a strong case for variable pricing per >country - I wonder if Mr Gates has seen it? > >For me, the piracy issue is a critical one as it hinders the development of a local >software industry serving local needs. > >For example, we work extensively in Indonesia where the piracy rate is 88% according >to your article. This has meant that an indigenous industry producing locally >relevant software is practically non-existent - businesses and other agencies simply >do not value software, (why would you when in the shops, the cost is based on the >number of CDs it is burned on?) nor are they particularly prepared to pay a fair rate >for using licenced software. One of the local companies we are working with, are >having to pull out of the software development market altogether because there is >simply no money and customers do not value software. Indeed, why would anyone make >the investment and take the risk in building software in Indonesian if there is no >hope of return? > >The people who seem to lose in the end are unfortunately the Indonesians as there is >little software available in Indonesian and there are few companies making software >to meet their needs and few trained developers around you can hire to adapt software. >If telecentre operators refuse to recognise intellectual property rights, as you >state below, rather than negotiate with suppliers to create mutually sustainable >working relationships, then I fear ICT software for Telecentres and the wider ICT4D >movement could be caught in a similar position. > >Is this fair reasoning? Or am I missing something? What have others experienced? > >Thanks > >Toby > >----------------------- >Toby Beresford >Managing Director >MicroAid.net - Online centres that encourage local people to get active, empower >communities and engage donors >New! e-book: How to get online donations - Download it free from >http://www.microaid.net/ebook/ >tel: +44 (0) 845 057 3371 > > >ashish Saboo wrote: > >>Anna, Taran, Toby I share the recurring theme of making ICT ubiquitous & >>affordable to all. Here I would like to draw your attention to a wonderful write-up >>titled: >>License fees and GDP per capita: The case for open source in developing countries by >>Rishab Aiyer Ghosh >>http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue8_12/ghosh/ >>All the softwares have developed and priced only keeping in mind the ecosystems of >>their country. Here the author compared the effective cost of owning a windows XP & >>office suite in terms of number of months of GDP per capita of respective countries. >>The study is revealing - For USA, Japan it costs just 0.19 times GDP/ PC months, to >>Trinidad & Tobago cost 1 times, Turkey 3 times, China 7 times, India 14 times, Nepal >>28 & Ethiopia a whopping 70 times! >>Now if we are to bring the access to at a same level means an invitation for the >>opportunity to develop cost effective alternative solutions and until then actively >>encourage the shared access model on which the telecentres work. >>The disparity in cost and at the same time a opportunity to fill in the information >>gap has forced many Telecentre entrepreneurs to take the risk and force them to not >>recognize the intellectual property rights. We at APIAP who represent numerous >>independent commercial telecentres as one of the major reason for lack of >>development of telecentres in bringing ICT tools for all. >>Sincerely >>Ashish Saboo >>President >>Association of Public Internet Access Provider, India >>http://www.apiap.cybernook.net >>Blog://apiap.cybernook.net >> >>FR Anna, Taran, part de Toby I le th�me se reproduisant de rendre ICT omnipr�sent et >>accessible � tous. Je voudrais appeler votre attention sur une description >>merveilleuse intitul�e : Redevances et PIB per capita : Le point de droit pour la >>source ouverte dans les pays en voie de d�veloppement par Rishab Aiyer Ghosh >>http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue8_12/ghosh/ Tous les softwares se sont >>d�velopp�s et �valu� maintenir seulement dans l'esprit les �cosyst�mes de leur pays. >>Ici l'auteur a compar� le co�t efficace de poss�der un windows.xp et une suite de >>bureau en termes de nombre de mois de PIB per capita des pays respectifs. L'�tude >>indique - pour les Etats-Unis, le Japon elle co�te juste 0.19 mois de PC de PIB de >>p�riodes, au Trinidad et les p�riodes 1 co�t�es par Tobago, en Turquie 3 fois, en >>Chine 7 fois, en Inde 14 fois, au N�pal 28 et en Ethiopie des 70 p�riodes battantes >>� plat de couture ! Maintenant si nous devons apporter l'acc�s � � a le m�me niveau >>signifie une invitation pour que l'occasion d�veloppe les solutions de rechange >>rentables et d'encourage jusque-l� activement le mod�le partag� d'acc�s sur lequel >>les telecentres travaillent. La disparit� dans le co�t et en m�me temps une occasion >>de compl�ter l'espace de l'information a forc� beaucoup d'entrepreneurs de >>Telecentre � prendre le risque et � les forcer � ne pas identifier les droites de >>propri�t� intellectuelle. Nous � APIAP qui repr�sente de nombreux telecentres >>commerciaux ind�pendants en tant qu'un de la raison principale par manque de >>d�veloppement des telecentres en apportant ICT usine pour tous. Sinc�rement Le >>Pr�sident Association d'Ashish Saboo du fournisseur Internet public d'Internet, Inde >>http://www.apiap.cybernook.net Blog://apiap.cybernook.net >> >>ES >>Ana, Taran, parte de Toby I el tema que se repite de hacer ICT ubicuo y comprable a >>todos. Aqu� quisiera dibujar su atenci�n a un relato maravilloso titulado: >>Honorarios de licencia y GDP por capita: El caso para la fuente abierta en pa�ses en >>v�as de desarrollo de Rishab Aiyer Ghosh >>http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue8_12/ghosh/ Todos los softwares se han >>convertido y tasado solamente tener presente los ecosistemas de su pa�s. Aqu� el >>autor compar� el coste eficaz de poseer un windows.xp y una habitaci�n de la oficina >>en t�rminos del n�mero de meses del GDP por la capita de pa�ses respectivos. �El >>estudio est� revelando - para los E.E.U.U., Jap�n cuesta apenas 0.19 mes de la PC >>del GDP/ de las �pocas, a Trinidad y a las �pocas costadas Trinidad y Tobago 1, a >>Turqu�a 3 veces, a China 7 veces, a la India 14 veces, a Nepal 28 y a Etiop�a las 70 >>�pocas whopping! Ahora si debemos traer el acceso en a a el mismo nivel significa >>una invitaci�n para que la oportunidad desarrolle soluciones alternativas rentables >>y hasta que entonces anime activamente el modelo compartido del acceso en el cual >>los telecentres trabajan. La disparidad en coste y en el mismo tiempo una >>oportunidad de completar el boquete de informaci�n ha forzado a muchos empresarios >>de Telecentre tomar el riesgo y forzarlos no reconocer las derechas de >>caracter�stica intelectual. En APIAP que represente telecentres comerciales >>independientes numerosos como uno de la raz�n principal de la carencia del >>desarrollo de telecentres en traer ICT fileteamos para todos. Sinceramente >>Presidente Association de Ashish Saboo del abastecedor de acceso p�blico de >>Internet, la India http://www.apiap.cybernook.net Blog://apiap.cybernook.net >> >> >>On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 Anna Badimo wrote : >> >>>Hi, >>> >>>I fully support Taran. I think it's high time the we as Open Source developers >>>enhance software that address the gaps mentioned. >>> >>>Best Regards >>>Anna Badimo >>>+27 11 717 6197. >>> >>>-- >>>WITS University >>> >>> >>>---------- Original Message ----------- >>> From: Taran Rampersad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>Sent: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:35:17 -0500 >>> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>telecentres mailing list >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/telecentres >>To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the >>body of the message. >> > >-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Toby Beresford >Managing Director >MicroAid.net - Online centres that encourage local people to get active, empower >communities and engage donors >New! e-book: How to get online donations - Download it free from >http://www.microaid.net/ebook/ >tel: +44 (0) 845 057 3371
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