Le 24/05/2010 18:33, Stephan Hennig a écrit : > [ > * starting a new thread, > * summing up the current state of German patterns, > * long > ] > > Am 03.05.2010 20:06, schrieb Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard: >> Le 03/05/2010 11:08, Mojca Miklavec a écrit : >> >>>> The down side is, when german-x is updated, hyph-utf8 needs to >>>> be updated too >>> >>> Whet german-x is updated, they'll probably want to update patterns >>> in hyph-utf8 anyway. >>> >> The actual patterns are in hyph-utf8? I was under the impression >> that dehyph-exptl was a separate package, both on CTAN and in TL. > > Everything said is correct. > Ok. Now that I understand the situation a bit better (or so I hope), back to Mojca's comment:
>>>> The down side is, when german-x is updated, hyph-utf8 needs to >>>> be updated too But it's already the case, isn't it? I mean, it has nothing to do with the new luatex loading system? > * Werner has converted the patterns to UTF-8. He also provided a > .tex pattern wrapper, that converts patterns back into T1 > encoding, if an 8-bit engines is recognized. 8-bit TeX engines > require the dehyph-exptl package with their time-stamped patterns > to be installed for this. This package is already part of TL2009 > and the patterns are enabled in language.dat, by default, making > them available via languages 'german-x-2009-06-19' etc. > > * XeTeX loads the unmodified UTF-8 patterns provided by hyph-utf8, > which are the same as in dehyph-exptl, but uses its own pattern > wrapper, though. As long as the patterns for XeTeX and LuaTeX > aren't frozen, this means hyph-utf8 is updated whenever we provide > new patterns. > > * As for LuaTeX, I have no idea what patterns LuaTeX from TL2009 > actually loads. > Thanks for this very clear explanation. > For TeX Live 2010, I hope we can agree on the following goals: > > * 8-bit TeX > No change (ever). Load traditional patterns in the format. > Experimental patterns are provided by package dehyph-exptl. > Agreed. > * XeTeX > No change. Load experimental patterns, by default. Make them > available as traditional languages 'german' and 'ngerman'. > Agreed. Though, since the language.dat file is shared by all engines, they will also be available as german-x-latest and ngerman-x-latest (without the languages being properly defined as synonyms, they will end up loading the same patterns). > * LuaTeX: > Load experimental patterns from new language.dat.lua, by default. > Make them available as traditional languages 'german' and > 'ngerman'. > We can easily make the situation the same as for XeTeX, which is the best solution now IMO. In the entries for (n)german-x, I can just add txthyph nd txtpatt fields, so that the plain text version from hyph-utf8 is used. That way, german-x-latest will be available under the three engines and mean the same thing. Or... > The question is, whether there should be an entry for languages > 'german-x-<date>' etc. I'd say no and I'll emphasize in our > documentation, that package dehyph-exptl is not required for > LuaTeX (and XeTeX). > we can desactivate (n)german-x-* in LuaTeX. (Note that in the current state of things, we're not desactivating it for XeTeX.) Well, your choice. Here, as a co-author of luatex-hyphen, and as a TL developer, my goal is only to provide solutions (and possibly advice about how they can be used), but the decision is yours. > The only thing for us to do, is to remember to provide patterns as > text versions, too, in future releases. Did I miss something? > I don't think you missed anything. > I'm sorry for the confusion about the state of German patterns. There > must have been some. At least, I have learnt much about pattern loading > during the last weeks. Comments and corrections are welcome (hence the > lengthy mail)! > Thanks very much for taking the time to explain the situation. It's much more clearer now. Manuel.
