“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.” ― Socrates <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/275648.Socrates>
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:06 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers < texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > Once upon a time people read books and papers and even knew how to write > but the new generation is all into the cereal asile at the Heb or Walmart. > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:34 PM, via Texascavers < > texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > >> Ouch ! Touchy ..... >> >> Jerry. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers < >> texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: >> >> > Hi Bill, >> > I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that >> needs attention. >> > >> > Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort >> at a picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications >> professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least >> listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should >> listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any >> endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to >> increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. >> > >> > Regarding "It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea >> for material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it.", >> perhaps you will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than just >> an opinion. I could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to >> all the trip leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going on >> in Texas. Maybe I could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed to >> and sit them down at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after >> all... I should also be scouring the internet on a daily basis looking for >> postings of anything that could be related to Texas caving. >> > >> > Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage >> cavers to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality >> publication and work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win >> friends and influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will. >> > >> > jill orr >> > 210.399.6762 >> > jillorr.businesscatalyst.com >> > >> > Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver >> > >> > Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am >> moved to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to >> volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already >> oversubscribed. >> > >> > The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture >> magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten >> barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the >> average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. >> The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at >> no increase in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable >> sizes, to look good. >> > >> > The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything >> about Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of >> newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's >> job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my >> time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his caving activities by >> posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles >> through the snow to get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses >> you, fine, but your Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the >> NSS Library, the UT Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the >> Texas Caver should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal >> digital archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the >> Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers >> posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong. >> > >> > There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or >> elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS >> Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by >> different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from >> various places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people >> leading various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been >> good about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they >> routinely included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can >> be gotten to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth >> a thousand words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought >> to have appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still >> published? >> > Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from >> them for The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your >> > newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by >> Texas cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention. >> > Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS >> News about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the >> author might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the >> Caver. (NSS policy claims that permission from the Executive Vice-President >> is needed to reprint, but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to >> anything in the News.) TSA meeting minutes should certainly always go on >> record there. TSS board minutes, perhaps edited to cut out >> semi-confidential dealings with agencies and the like? >> > Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there. >> > It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for >> material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But that >> doesn't entirely excuse your ignoring the plea.) >> > >> > The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent >> record of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include as >> much _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course some >> discretion might be used to cut out details of what you had for breakfast >> during your caving trip, but better even that than nothing, which is too >> much of what we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon >> > ---------------------------------------- >> > I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying. >> > ---------------------------------------- >> > You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for >> long-term use, save: >> > Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu >> > AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex >> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >> > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex >> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >> _______________________________________________ >> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex >> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >> > > > > -- > Charlie Loving > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > -- George-Paul Richmann (513) 490-3100 gprichm...@gmail.com
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