texascavers Digest 13 Sep 2013 20:53:35 -0000 Issue 1842
Topics (messages 22658 through 22672):
Re: Solo caving
22658 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
22659 by: Stefan Creaser
22660 by: Tom Rogers
22661 by: Diana Tomchick
22665 by: Fofo
22667 by: Pete Lindsley
22668 by: Diana Tomchick
22669 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
Solo caving in Castleguard: Mike Boon's epic trip
22662 by: Frank Binney
22663 by: Nico Escamilla
22664 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
Re: Solo caving is stupid. Plain and simple.
22666 by: texascav...@yahoo.com
22670 by: Geary Schindel
22671 by: Diana Tomchick
22672 by: Tim Stich
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--- Begin Message ---
There is a certain peacefulness. And quiet satisfaction.
DirtDoc
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No friends? ;-)
(Sorry, it's Friday...)
-----Original Message-----
From: Diana Tomchick [mailto:diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu]
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 11:01 AM
To: James Jasek
Cc: TexasCavers Tex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Solo caving
Why go solo caving when there are so many cavers in Texas that want to go but
don't get enough chances to go caving?
Diana
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick
Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of
Biophysics
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)
On Sep 13, 2013, at 9:14 AM, James Jasek wrote:
> Let me rephrase my solo caving question. I was hoping an active caver, who
> has done, or has recently done, some non vertical, solo caving would reply.
> What is the mind set and why go solo caving? What are the limits set to what
> difficulty or degree of caving while underground? What is included in your
> cave pack in case of an emergency?
>
> James Jasek
>
> Sent from my iPhone
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________________________________
UT Southwestern Medical Center
The future of medicine, today.
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Jim,
I have gone solo caving probably four times. Usually it was unplanned grab my
helmet from the back seat and get sucked into a hole in the ground. The feeling
you get when nobody knows where you are it's quiet all you can hear is your
heart beat. A small cave with little or no exposures or hazards suddenly
becomes a monster out to kill you. I do it for the adrenaline. I am always
extra careful with every move. One wrong step and they make a movie. I've
always gone with little or no gear. Kinda like spelunking...
Tom
--- Original Message ---
From: "James Jasek" <caver...@hot.rr.com>
Sent: September 13, 2013 9:14 AM
To: "TexasCavers Tex" <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Subject: [Texascavers] Solo caving
Let me rephrase my solo caving question. I was hoping an active caver, who has
done, or has recently done, some non vertical, solo caving would reply. What is
the mind set and why go solo caving? What are the limits set to what
difficulty or degree of caving while underground? What is included in your cave
pack in case of an emergency?
James Jasek
Sent from my iPhone
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--- Begin Message ---
OK, so it's a slow morning at work, so I'll bite on this subject.
I don't go solo caving. But I do like to cave "solo" on occasion. What do I
mean by that? For example, when you're caving with a large group of people that
move at different rates through a cave, sometimes it's nice to break away from
the crowd and travel at your own pace. This works well when it's a long trip
with a clear route and you either know that there are people in front and
behind you (a great example is a tank haul in a water cave) or you are in the
lead, the first one into the cave. You get into a great rhythm and can
oftentimes convince yourself that you are the only one there, it's peaceful and
beautiful. You don't have to worry if something goes wrong, you know that if
you just wait someone will come along and help you out. Best of all worlds.
While I do all kinds of things above ground that are solo (biking, hiking,
sailing, etc.) I also know that it's easy to signal for help above ground, and
that if someone needed to cart my ailing or lifeless body away from the scene
of an accident, they wouldn't need to unduly risk themselves or the environment
in order to do that. Obviously that's a different story underground, and I care
enough about minimizing my impact on the cave and to not place myself in that
kind of situation.
Diana
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biophysics
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)
On Sep 13, 2013, at 9:14 AM, James Jasek wrote:
> Let me rephrase my solo caving question. I was hoping an active caver, who
> has done, or has recently done, some non vertical, solo caving would reply.
> What is the mind set and why go solo caving? What are the limits set to what
> difficulty or degree of caving while underground? What is included in your
> cave pack in case of an emergency?
>
> James Jasek
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
________________________________
UT Southwestern Medical Center
The future of medicine, today.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I guess that the official response has to be "no, never, solo caving is
too risky. What if anything happens?"
But also, I can imagine that most cavers who have been involved in
exploration have been solo caving:
- Checking a couple of passages quickly to find out which one is more
promising for continuing the survey.
- If time runs out but the passage is still going, to find out if the
passage actually does keep going or if it ends after the next corner (it
would suck to send another team there to find this).
- When route finding in a cave, going a little bit further for finding
survey stations.
In my cave pack I always carry a first aid kit, 24 hours of emergency
food (nothing fancy, just something that would keep you somewhat
energized for 24 hours), and stuff for a heat tent (light cord and an
emergency blanket).
- Fofo
On 13/09/13 07:14, James Jasek wrote:
Let me rephrase my solo caving question. I was hoping an active caver, who has
done, or has recently done, some non vertical, solo caving would reply. What is
the mind set and why go solo caving? What are the limits set to what
difficulty or degree of caving while underground? What is included in your cave
pack in case of an emergency?
James Jasek
Sent from my iPhone
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dwight, remember the Turtle Hurdles? You, Karen and myself were off in the
boonies at the edge of known cave, just past Kaemper's map of Mammoth Cave. We
went just past long ago footsteps, through an apparent virgin area, and into an
area where we starting to see signs of human scuffs again. We knew that
commercial cave was somewhere above us but had no idea how to get there. It was
~ 3:00 am and the choice was to push on for a couple of hours or head out of
the cave the way we came in. So we sent you off into the void and took a short
nap. Waking in the cold, we thought we could hear you coming back.... for
about 45 minutes! It was just water dripping and sounding like someone coming.
Same thing I have heard several times before, when alone or with others in
remote parts of a known cave. You finally showed up and we left for the
entrance the way we came in.
Was that the time breakfast the next morning at 10:00 am was sweet & sour SPAM?
(The camp crew ate all the good stuff and spammed us :-( ) The next time back
there was with the Callot brothers a year after the 1981 Bowling Green ICS,
when we actually came in from the other side after we knew where our survey had
taken us. Another great trip when I learned "1, 2, 3 flash" in French. That was
before Firefly or radio syncs were invented.
- Pete
On Sep 13, 2013, at 10:13 AM, dirt...@comcast.net wrote:
There is a certain peacefulness. And quiet satisfaction.
DirtDoc
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't qualify that as strictly solo caving as you are in the same cave with a
group of people that hopefully know that you went ahead to check things out and
will come and get you rather quickly if you are scooping virgin cave without
them. Far different from no one else knowing where in the heck you went and
when you will return.
There is a danger in the "solo" caving I referred to, where you get separated
from your caving companions. Somebody ask Puppy how it feels to do that kind of
caving in Honey Creek, and you'll understand.
Diana
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biophysics
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)
On Sep 13, 2013, at 1:43 PM, Fofo wrote:
> I guess that the official response has to be "no, never, solo caving is too
> risky. What if anything happens?"
>
> But also, I can imagine that most cavers who have been involved in
> exploration have been solo caving:
>
> - Checking a couple of passages quickly to find out which one is more
> promising for continuing the survey.
> - If time runs out but the passage is still going, to find out if the passage
> actually does keep going or if it ends after the next corner (it would suck
> to send another team there to find this).
> - When route finding in a cave, going a little bit further for finding survey
> stations.
>
> In my cave pack I always carry a first aid kit, 24 hours of emergency food
> (nothing fancy, just something that would keep you somewhat energized for 24
> hours), and stuff for a heat tent (light cord and an emergency blanket).
>
> - Fofo
>
> On 13/09/13 07:14, James Jasek wrote:
>> Let me rephrase my solo caving question. I was hoping an active caver, who
>> has done, or has recently done, some non vertical, solo caving would reply.
>> What is the mind set and why go solo caving? What are the limits set to
>> what difficulty or degree of caving while underground? What is included in
>> your cave pack in case of an emergency?
>>
>> James Jasek
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
>> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>>
>
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________________________________
UT Southwestern Medical Center
The future of medicine, today.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, Pete, I certainly do remember the Turtle Hurdles!
I figured Max must have come down out of a crack in the ceiling somewhere, and
finally gave up searching. I was doubting that even if I found a traveled
route, I still would not know how to get to a main tourist trail and onto the
Snowball Dining Room. I hoped you would be able to do so if I found a
traveled way.
That was not really fun "solo caving". It became Endurance Zen. But that is
a different kind of caving than started this thread.
I do think that I was out for more than an hour (and I have been out for much,
much, longer - some were quite wonderful and rewarding hours and hours), it
certainly makes a better story that way. Passages became upstream and low,
slow going, and a different kind of tiring caving from the exhausting Turtle
Hurdles. I really did not want to go back the way we came and remember the
effort it took to do so. At the end we popped out pooped.
I ALSO remember well that we knew that Sweet and Sour Pork was on the menu
-----
(Hold That Thought)
Dwight
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I¹ve always believed that those who regularly pursue solo caving either have
a death wish or suffer from mental illness. Case in point, back in 1970
Canadian caverand frequent visitor to Austin on his way to deep caving
expeditions in MexicoMike Boon made an epic mid-winter solo trip to
Castleguard Cave below the Columbia Ice Fields in Banff National Park. Mike
was an extraordinary exploration caver, a brilliant poet
andunfortunatelysomeone who needed to be repeatedly institutionalized for
mental illness.
You can read Mike¹s captivating account of his solo trip in Inside Earth #3,
available for free download via the link below. (Thank you Bill Mixon for
scanning all the long out-of-print Inside Earth issues!)
https://www.hightail.com/download/OGhmZXQ1TlF3TGhqQThUQw
Frank Binney
Frank Binney & Associates
Interpretive Planning and Media Development
P.O. Box 258
Woodacre, CA 94973
415.488.1200 Voice
415.488.1500 Fax
415.999.0556 Mobile
fr...@frankbinney.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Everyone knows solo caving is way too dangerous. I always bring a buddy,
usually one I can easily outrun when chupacabras start chasing you out of
the cave
El viernes, 13 de septiembre de 2013, Frank Binney escribió:
> I’ve always believed that those who regularly pursue solo caving either
> have a death wish or suffer from mental illness. Case in point, back in
> 1970 Canadian caver—and frequent visitor to Austin on his way to deep
> caving expeditions in Mexico—Mike Boon made an epic mid-winter solo trip to
> Castleguard Cave below the Columbia Ice Fields in Banff National Park. Mike
> was an extraordinary exploration caver, a brilliant poet
> and—unfortunately—someone who needed to be repeatedly institutionalized for
> mental illness.
> You can read Mike’s captivating account of his solo trip in Inside Earth
> #3, available for free download via the link below. (Thank you Bill Mixon
> for scanning all the long out-of-print Inside Earth issues!)
>
> https://www.hightail.com/download/OGhmZXQ1TlF3TGhqQThUQw
>
> Frank Binney
> Frank Binney & Associates
> Interpretive Planning and Media Development
> P.O. Box 258
> Woodacre, CA 94973
> 415.488.1200 Voice
> 415.488.1500 Fax
> 415.999.0556 Mobile
> fr...@frankbinney.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, Frank.
I remember that article well! A classic story in a classic publication.
(And Jewel Cave had finally reached 50 miles to become the World's fifth
longest cave ------)
By the way - - in cleaning up the basement in the aftermath of too much
flooding, I ran across a "mint" copy of IE #1. Unharmed!
DirtDoc
----- Original Message -----
You can read Mike’s captivating account of his solo trip in Inside Earth #3,
available for free download via the link below. (Thank you Bill Mixon for
scanning all the long out-of-print Inside Earth issues!)
https://www.hightail.com/download/OGhmZXQ1TlF3TGhqQThUQw
Frank Binney
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There's only word to describe silo caving:
Dead.
Has everyone forgotten that "world's greatest caver" Floyd Collins??
Stupidest caver IMHO. He broke so many common sense rules associated with
caving that when I give a cave talk to various groups, I use him as an example
on what NOT to do.
Underground and above ground.
Mark, by sheer dumb luck, somehow managed to send this from his Virgin Mobile
Android-Powered Device
----- Reply message -----
From: dirt...@comcast.net
To: "Nico Escamilla" <pitboun...@gmail.com>
Cc: "Texas Cavers" <Texascavers@texascavers.com>, "Frank Binney"
<fr...@frankbinney.com>
Subject: [Texascavers] Solo caving in Castleguard: Mike Boon's epic trip
Date: Fri, Sep 13, 2013 1:36 PM
Thanks, Frank.
I remember that article well! A classic story in a classic publication.
(And Jewel Cave had finally reached 50 miles to become the World's fifth
longest cave ------)
By the way - - in cleaning up the basement in the aftermath of too much
flooding, I ran across a "mint" copy of IE #1. Unharmed!
DirtDoc
You can read Mike’s captivating account of his solo trip in Inside Earth #3,
available for free download via the link below. (Thank you Bill Mixon for
scanning all the long out-of-print Inside Earth
issues!)https://www.hightail.com/download/OGhmZXQ1TlF3TGhqQThUQwFrank Binney
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Diana raises some interesting points about safety. But how do we really weigh
relative risk. Is the chance of breaking a leg while caving any different
soling or with a group of cavers. What caving with a group of cavers does is
cut down on the response time in the event of this sort of accident – maybe. If
the accident is getting lost or trapped by flooding, the size of the group may
not matter thought it may increase the likelihood that one of you is smart
enough to have told someone what you were up to.
First off, you should never go into a cave unless you tell someone responsible
where you are going and when you will be back, and who to call if you don’t
come back. That doesn’t matter whether you’re solo caving or with a group
(assuming you want to be found). (Maybe I’ve been watching too much Breaking
Bad).
There are a number of accidents related to caving involving groups of people
that have been trapped. One of the best that comes to mind is an experienced
caver that had his kids for a week and they took off to West Virginia for
vacation. They went into one of the NSS caves and were off exploring, away from
their packs and they couldn’t get back before their lights went out. They
wouldn’t be missed until the end of the week. I believe that a State Trooper
saw their car parked in front of the cave after 3 or 4 days and called some
cavers to come look in the cave. They were in pretty dire shape and wouldn’t
have lasted much longer.
There was another incident involving a group of deaf students in another West
Virginia cave that couldn’t hear their rescuers yelling for them which
postponed their rescue by many hours.
There are other cases of people solo caving that have done the same thing.
There is a good example from a cave in Arizona where the guy didn’t come back,
he was reported missing, the sheriff went out to the cave, yelled in and didn’t
hear anybody. He didn’t call any cavers to help and the person’s body was found
in the cave many months later.
Another hypothetical example may be when you are caving with a large group of
people, and you get separated from the main group, say because you’re at the
end of a long trip in a long cave (maybe carrying scuba tanks), and you pass
the entrance, and go unnoticed. Not sure whether being solo or having someone
along with you would have made the difference of seeing the shaft, it may have
only been the difference between one and two people shivering in the dark. This
is a problem with poor entrance control. I suspect someone would have noticed
the person missing later on Sunday when their tent and car stood out as the
last people were packing up to leave. This might have been a BIG issue in a
colder cave further north.
There is another good example of this when a caver got separated between drops
and off route when exiting a deep vertical cave in Europe. It was noticed by
entrance control but they didn’t find his body for many many months.
So, how is solo caving different from solo trail running, solo hiking, or solo
driving on rural roads. Reminds me of a college student that was driving home
from Ohio to the DC area one Christmas. He was driving late at night and never
made it home. There was a search conducted but it’s a lot of area to search for
a missing car. About 6 months later, a helicopter happened to be flying over
the triangle formed by the intersection of I-270 and I-495 in the suburbs of
Washington DC when a car was noticed in the thick underbrush. Since the
triangle was bound by these two large interstates, no one ever visited this
area. Turns out the car had missed the turn and went over the embankment and
hit a tree.
What about caving in Mexico. You might be planned to be gone for a week or two
until someone misses you. If you don’t turn up, are you stuck in a cave or been
kidnapped. Mexico is bigger than the area between Ohio and DC regarding
searches. The locals may not think too much about your car sitting along the
road for an extended period of time.
So, there are a number of precautions you can take if you’re out and about by
yourself or with others. Tell someone where you’re going, when you will be
back, what to do if you don’t come back. For extended periods, you can call in
and tell folks you’re ok, etc or use a SPOT tracking device (I may have saved
my son Graham’s life) as it also has a help button and is a satellite
communication system. This may minimize the risk, assuming you have someone
responsible checking it at some interval. However, the SPOT doesn’t work in
caves. However, you can always leave it at the entrance so folks will know
where to start looking if you don’t check in at a prescribed time.
Good dialog on an important safety consideration.
Geary
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While we're on the topic of going solo in the wilderness and the relative risks
involved, here's an interesting new take on how Christopher McCandless ("Into
The Wild") died by Jon Krakeur.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/books/2013/09/how-chris-mccandless-died.html
I especially enjoyed the reader comments from Alaska natives who are tired of
rescuing naive city people who go into the wilderness unprepared.
Diana
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biophysics
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)
On Sep 13, 2013, at 3:18 PM, Geary Schindel wrote:
> Diana raises some interesting points about safety. But how do we really weigh
> relative risk. Is the chance of breaking a leg while caving any different
> soling or with a group of cavers. What caving with a group of cavers does is
> cut down on the response time in the event of this sort of accident – maybe.
> If the accident is getting lost or trapped by flooding, the size of the group
> may not matter thought it may increase the likelihood that one of you is
> smart enough to have told someone what you were up to.
>
> First off, you should never go into a cave unless you tell someone
> responsible where you are going and when you will be back, and who to call if
> you don’t come back. That doesn’t matter whether you’re solo caving or with a
> group (assuming you want to be found). (Maybe I’ve been watching too much
> Breaking Bad).
>
> There are a number of accidents related to caving involving groups of people
> that have been trapped. One of the best that comes to mind is an experienced
> caver that had his kids for a week and they took off to West Virginia for
> vacation. They went into one of the NSS caves and were off exploring, away
> from their packs and they couldn’t get back before their lights went out.
> They wouldn’t be missed until the end of the week. I believe that a State
> Trooper saw their car parked in front of the cave after 3 or 4 days and
> called some cavers to come look in the cave. They were in pretty dire shape
> and wouldn’t have lasted much longer.
>
> There was another incident involving a group of deaf students in another West
> Virginia cave that couldn’t hear their rescuers yelling for them which
> postponed their rescue by many hours.
>
> There are other cases of people solo caving that have done the same thing.
> There is a good example from a cave in Arizona where the guy didn’t come
> back, he was reported missing, the sheriff went out to the cave, yelled in
> and didn’t hear anybody. He didn’t call any cavers to help and the person’s
> body was found in the cave many months later.
>
> Another hypothetical example may be when you are caving with a large group of
> people, and you get separated from the main group, say because you’re at the
> end of a long trip in a long cave (maybe carrying scuba tanks), and you pass
> the entrance, and go unnoticed. Not sure whether being solo or having someone
> along with you would have made the difference of seeing the shaft, it may
> have only been the difference between one and two people shivering in the
> dark. This is a problem with poor entrance control. I suspect someone would
> have noticed the person missing later on Sunday when their tent and car stood
> out as the last people were packing up to leave. This might have been a BIG
> issue in a colder cave further north.
>
> There is another good example of this when a caver got separated between
> drops and off route when exiting a deep vertical cave in Europe. It was
> noticed by entrance control but they didn’t find his body for many many
> months.
>
>
> So, how is solo caving different from solo trail running, solo hiking, or
> solo driving on rural roads. Reminds me of a college student that was
> driving home from Ohio to the DC area one Christmas. He was driving late at
> night and never made it home. There was a search conducted but it’s a lot of
> area to search for a missing car. About 6 months later, a helicopter happened
> to be flying over the triangle formed by the intersection of I-270 and I-495
> in the suburbs of Washington DC when a car was noticed in the thick
> underbrush. Since the triangle was bound by these two large interstates, no
> one ever visited this area. Turns out the car had missed the turn and went
> over the embankment and hit a tree.
>
> What about caving in Mexico. You might be planned to be gone for a week or
> two until someone misses you. If you don’t turn up, are you stuck in a cave
> or been kidnapped. Mexico is bigger than the area between Ohio and DC
> regarding searches. The locals may not think too much about your car sitting
> along the road for an extended period of time.
>
> So, there are a number of precautions you can take if you’re out and about by
> yourself or with others. Tell someone where you’re going, when you will be
> back, what to do if you don’t come back. For extended periods, you can call
> in and tell folks you’re ok, etc or use a SPOT tracking device (I may have
> saved my son Graham’s life) as it also has a help button and is a satellite
> communication system. This may minimize the risk, assuming you have someone
> responsible checking it at some interval. However, the SPOT doesn’t work in
> caves. However, you can always leave it at the entrance so folks will know
> where to start looking if you don’t check in at a prescribed time.
>
> Good dialog on an important safety consideration.
>
> Geary
>
>
________________________________
UT Southwestern Medical Center
The future of medicine, today.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"There's only word to describe silo caving:
Dead."
Or perhaps corny...wheat-filled? Although rice is sometimes involved.
On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 1:02 PM, texascav...@yahoo.com <
texascav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> There's only word to describe silo caving:
>
> Dead.
>
> Has everyone forgotten that "world's greatest caver" Floyd Collins??
>
> Stupidest caver IMHO. He broke so many common sense rules associated with
> caving that when I give a cave talk to various groups, I use him as an
> example on what NOT to do.
>
> Underground and above ground.
>
>
> Mark, by sheer dumb luck, somehow managed to send this from his Virgin
> Mobile Android-Powered Device
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: dirt...@comcast.net
> To: "Nico Escamilla" <pitboun...@gmail.com>
> Cc: "Texas Cavers" <Texascavers@texascavers.com>, "Frank Binney" <
> fr...@frankbinney.com>
> Subject: [Texascavers] Solo caving in Castleguard: Mike Boon's epic trip
> Date: Fri, Sep 13, 2013 1:36 PM
>
>
> Thanks, Frank.
>
>
>
> I remember that article well! A classic story in a classic publication.
>
>
>
> (And Jewel Cave had finally reached 50 miles to become the World's fifth
> longest cave ------)
>
>
>
> By the way - - in cleaning up the basement in the aftermath of too much
> flooding, I ran across a "mint" copy of IE #1. Unharmed!
>
>
> DirtDoc
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> You can read Mike’s captivating account of his solo trip in Inside Earth
> #3, available for free download via the link below. (Thank you Bill Mixon
> for scanning all the long out-of-print Inside Earth issues!)
>
> https://www.hightail.com/download/OGhmZXQ1TlF3TGhqQThUQw
>
> Frank Binney
>
>
--- End Message ---
