texascavers Digest 17 Mar 2013 04:22:24 -0000 Issue 1723
Topics (messages 21440 through 21449):
CWAN Clean-up today for TSA Spring Convention
21440 by: Roger Moore
21441 by: Roger Moore
21443 by: Roger Moore
21447 by: Mimi Jasek
TSA Spring Convention Vendors take note
21442 by: Roger Moore
Florida sinkhole article
21444 by: Mixon Bill
TCEQ - a hearing to eliminate contested case hearings
21445 by: Joe Ranzau
Huautla progress report
21446 by: Mixon Bill
21448 by: freddie poer
21449 by: Mimi Jasek
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--- Begin Message ---
It is a beautiful day at CWAN for some worthy exercise! Join other cavers in
picking up rocks and brush to make for soft sleeping in the newly expanded area
of the Cave Without a Name campground, cleared explicitly to keep us TSA folks
from being overcrowded at the upcoming Spring Convention.
Roger Moore, TSA Vice Chairman
Sent from my iPad
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> It is a beautiful day at CWAN for some worthy exercise! Join other cavers in
> picking up rocks and brush to make for soft sleeping in the newly expanded
> area of the Cave Without a Name campground, cleared explicitly to keep us TSA
> folks from being overcrowded at the upcoming Spring Convention.
> Roger Moore, TSA Vice Chairman
>
> Sent from my iPad
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Final total for the rock removal crew: 10 front end loader buckets full of
limestone that YOU do not have to sleep on at the TSA Spring Meeting!
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 16, 2013, at 11:22 AM, Roger Moore <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> It is a beautiful day at CWAN for some worthy exercise! Join other cavers in
>> picking up rocks and brush to make for soft sleeping in the newly expanded
>> area of the Cave Without a Name campground, cleared explicitly to keep us
>> TSA folks from being overcrowded at the upcoming Spring Convention.
>> Roger Moore, TSA Vice Chairman
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you to all who helped! We will totally appreciate it!
Mimi Jasek
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 16, 2013, at 3:34 PM, Roger Moore <[email protected]> wrote:
> Final total for the rock removal crew: 10 front end loader buckets full of
> limestone that YOU do not have to sleep on at the TSA Spring Meeting!
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 16, 2013, at 11:22 AM, Roger Moore <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>> It is a beautiful day at CWAN for some worthy exercise! Join other cavers
>>> in picking up rocks and brush to make for soft sleeping in the newly
>>> expanded area of the Cave Without a Name campground, cleared explicitly to
>>> keep us TSA folks from being overcrowded at the upcoming Spring Convention.
>>> Roger Moore, TSA Vice Chairman
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TSA VENDORS TAKE NOTE: The vendor area will be in a newly cleared area at the
cave tour entrance end of the campground so that everyone going back and forth
between papers, etc., at the cave will pass you coming and going. Please e-mail
me with any questions.
Roger Moore, Vice Chair
Sent from my iPad
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've just read that timely article about Florida sinkholes in the 18
March New Yorker. Besides being a well-written (of course) summary of
Florida's karst geology, the origin of its sinkholes, and the
environmental problems the karst causes, it contains a nice section on
Florida cave diving. -- Mixon
----------------------------------------
Don't be led astray into the paths of virtue.
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--- Begin Message ---
Folks - This came across another listserve I subscribe to. Thought many
might find this of interest as lots of us work on ground water protection
or other pollution issues. I don't have any information about the severity
of the proposed bills or how serious this is. Figured I should forward and
let folks make their own decisions.
Sounds like it would not hurt to write a letter voicing your opinion to
your state rep or senator.
Joe
*************************************
Hey guys,
A bill has been introduced that would eliminate the right of folks to
contest TCEQ permits through the contested case hearing process. This
comes up every so often, and we really need to fight it. As you know,
the Texas Rivers Protection Association has participated in many
contested case hearings over the years. In fact, all the water quality
improvements that we have caused have been through contested case
hearings. We wouldn't have state of the art sewage treatment plants in
either Kerrville or San Marcos if it hadn't been for contested case
hearings. And, the state would have proceeded happily along allowing
entities to pump water our of our rivers to recharge underground
aquifers, with little concern for maintaining adequate minimum
streamflows.
A hearing on the legislation is scheduled for this next Tuesday at 9
a.m. in room E1.012 in the capital annex. I have to be in Bethesda
Maryland this coming Tuesday, so I can't make the hearing. If there is
any way you can make it, even if all you do is sign a witness card and
state that you are opposed to the legislation, it would be greatly
appreciated.
I am pasting below the body of an e-mail I received that talks a little
more about the legislation and what you can do to oppose it.
Thanks for your help.
Tom Goynes
Texas Rivers Protection Association
cell: 512-787-5574
Hello,
I am emailing you because I found your email in TCEQ contested case
hearing requests. My name is Hillary Corgey with a nonprofit in Austin
called Public Citizen, and I wanted to inform you that two Texas
legislators are trying to eliminate the contested case hearing process
and replace it with a system that would further disadvantage citizens
fighting against polluters. I have enclosed a fact sheet for you to
review.
If you are interested in attending a meeting on contested case hearings
in Austin, it will be next Tuesday, March 19th, at 9am in E1.012. If
you are unable to attend but still want to participate, please send me
an email with your name, your phone number, your address, the bill
number (SB 957), and your experience with contested case hearings.
If you have any questions, please feel free to give me a call at
512-477-1155. If you are unable to reach me between 9 and 6 on a
workday, call my cell phone at (512)-662-7718. I can answer this on the
weekends.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Hillary Corgey
2013-03-04 Hearing Elimination Fact Sheet.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From a participant in the British cave-diving expedion to Huautla in
Mexico:
I was with the advance team who were mainly tasked to get the cave
rigged to the bottom. We rigged down to the 620 depot and then set
up and moved into camp 3 for four days. We also had Jason
Mallinson, the lead diver with us just itching to get in the sump.
On the seventh day (from the start of the expedition) Jason and his
gear arrived at the sump and he dived. He is a top diver and
relined sumps 1&2 in a single dive lasting 1.5hours, his first
dive. Since then the rest of the team have moved the other four
divers gear to the sump in preparation for a week long camp beyond
sump 2. There are five divers going through both to push sump 9 and
to climb the Rio Inglesi falls. I think they went through on monday
and tuesday this week gone, so expect to hear some news by next
wednesday.
The one thing that shocked me, in an otherwise fantastic cave, was
all the trash and gear abandoned by the '94 team. At the sump was
the remains of the dive platforms, much of which was washed into the
sump. There were composite cylinders with the pillar valves removed
and now full of silt, blatant abandonment. Nalgene bottles of
batteries which had imploded due to flood pressure and now leaking
acid. At Camp 3 there were around 30 nalgenes with all sorts of
crap in them from minging sleeping bags to leaching Kodachrome
film. There was also the rusting remains of the hydo generator, a
huge cable drum of untouched fibre optic cable and rusting gas
cans. Also, of course, were the rounds of rope, often knackered,
piled high at pitch heads. We started pulling some of it out but
don't know if the derig team will be strong enough to do it all.
Until this trip to Mexico I had been impressed with the conservation
ethics of the Americans who caved in Mexico, 'take nothing but
photographs, leave nothing but footprints', now needs a little
rephrasing!
--Mixon
----------------------------------------
Don't be led astray into the paths of virtue.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It would be nice to hear some justification for the garbage left behind from
the previous trips. What ever happened to the "haul it it, haul it out"
philosophy? Maybe it was too much work? Maybe the pace just took too much out
of the participants? Possibly no one else would see it ever again. Any of the
94 crew care to elaborate? Maybe it is okay to trash the cave for for the
immediate goals of the expedition? Is there any good explanation for this?
Maybe the approach of the almighty expedition cavers needs to be re-examined. I
personally know of several cavers who were "dropped" from the Texas based
expedition cave trips because they could not keep up with the pace set by a
select few individuals. Maybe the problem is with the leaders of such
expeditions. After all, when you are actually endangering the lives of the
people involved, or in some cases, having fatalities on your trips, it may be
time to re-evaluate your methods. It is not necessary
to trash the cave or kill people to conduct an exploration. Safety and
conservation first. Egos should come in a far second to anything else. Anyone
care to comment?
--- On Sat, 3/16/13, Mixon Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Mixon Bill <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] Huautla progress report
To: "Cavers Texas" <[email protected]>
Date: Saturday, March 16, 2013, 5:05 PM
>From a participant in the British cave-diving expedion to Huautla in Mexico:
> I was with the advance team who were mainly tasked to get the cave rigged to
> the bottom. We rigged down to the 620 depot and then set up and moved into
> camp 3 for four days. We also had Jason Mallinson, the lead diver with us
> just itching to get in the sump. On the seventh day (from the start of the
> expedition) Jason and his gear arrived at the sump and he dived. He is a top
> diver and relined sumps 1&2 in a single dive lasting 1.5hours, his first
> dive. Since then the rest of the team have moved the other four divers gear
> to the sump in preparation for a week long camp beyond sump 2. There are
> five divers going through both to push sump 9 and to climb the Rio Inglesi
> falls. I think they went through on monday and tuesday this week gone, so
> expect to hear some news by next wednesday.
>
> The one thing that shocked me, in an otherwise fantastic cave, was all the
> trash and gear abandoned by the '94 team. At the sump was the remains of the
> dive platforms, much of which was washed into the sump. There were composite
> cylinders with the pillar valves removed and now full of silt, blatant
> abandonment. Nalgene bottles of batteries which had imploded due to flood
> pressure and now leaking acid. At Camp 3 there were around 30 nalgenes with
> all sorts of crap in them from minging sleeping bags to leaching Kodachrome
> film. There was also the rusting remains of the hydo generator, a huge cable
> drum of untouched fibre optic cable and rusting gas cans. Also, of course,
> were the rounds of rope, often knackered, piled high at pitch heads. We
> started pulling some of it out but don't know if the derig team will be
> strong enough to do it all. Until this trip to Mexico I had been impressed
> with the conservation ethics of the Americans who
caved in Mexico, 'take nothing but photographs, leave nothing but footprints',
now needs a little rephrasing!
--Mixon
----------------------------------------
Don't be led astray into the paths of virtue.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In fairness to all concerned with both the '94 expedition and the current one,
I believe this thread needs to stop now, and should never actually have been
started.
Since one of the main leaders of the '94 one is , I believe, deep underground
on the current one and can not be reached for comment, the original post seemed
almost a cheap and damaging shot at the amazing work of many people and a whole
organization. Posting it without having a rebuttal comment to post with it
seems irresponsible and very poor journalistic behavior.
Besides that, no one I know who has ever had a life lost on a trip ever gets
over it, nor would ever want that event to be repeated.
With great respect to all involved,
Mimi Jasek
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 16, 2013, at 10:03 PM, freddie poer <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> It would be nice to hear some justification for the garbage left behind from
> the previous trips. What ever happened to the "haul it it, haul it out"
> philosophy? Maybe it was too much work? Maybe the pace just took too much out
> of the participants? Possibly no one else would see it ever again. Any of the
> 94 crew care to elaborate? Maybe it is okay to trash the cave for for the
> immediate goals of the expedition? Is there any good explanation for this?
> Maybe the approach of the almighty expedition cavers needs to be re-examined.
> I personally know of several cavers who were "dropped" from the Texas based
> expedition cave trips because they could not keep up with the pace set by a
> select few individuals. Maybe the problem is with the leaders of such
> expeditions. After all, when you are actually endangering the lives of the
> people involved, or in some cases, having fatalities on your trips, it may be
> time to re-evaluate your methods. It is not necessary to trash the cave or
> kill people to conduct an exploration. Safety and conservation first. Egos
> should come in a far second to anything else. Anyone care to comment?
>
> --- On Sat, 3/16/13, Mixon Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> From: Mixon Bill <[email protected]>
> Subject: [Texascavers] Huautla progress report
> To: "Cavers Texas" <[email protected]>
> Date: Saturday, March 16, 2013, 5:05 PM
>
> From a participant in the British cave-diving expedion to Huautla in Mexico:
>
> > I was with the advance team who were mainly tasked to get the cave rigged
> > to the bottom. We rigged down to the 620 depot and then set up and moved
> > into camp 3 for four days. We also had Jason Mallinson, the lead diver
> > with us just itching to get in the sump. On the seventh day (from the
> > start of the expedition) Jason and his gear arrived at the sump and he
> > dived. He is a top diver and relined sumps 1&2 in a single dive lasting
> > 1.5hours, his first dive. Since then the rest of the team have moved the
> > other four divers gear to the sump in preparation for a week long camp
> > beyond sump 2. There are five divers going through both to push sump 9 and
> > to climb the Rio Inglesi falls. I think they went through on monday and
> > tuesday this week gone, so expect to hear some news by next wednesday.
> >
> > The one thing that shocked me, in an otherwise fantastic cave, was all the
> > trash and gear abandoned by the '94 team. At the sump was the remains of
> > the dive platforms, much of which was washed into the sump. There were
> > composite cylinders with the pillar valves removed and now full of silt,
> > blatant abandonment. Nalgene bottles of batteries which had imploded due
> > to flood pressure and now leaking acid. At Camp 3 there were around 30
> > nalgenes with all sorts of crap in them from minging sleeping bags to
> > leaching Kodachrome film. There was also the rusting remains of the hydo
> > generator, a huge cable drum of untouched fibre optic cable and rusting gas
> > cans. Also, of course, were the rounds of rope, often knackered, piled
> > high at pitch heads. We started pulling some of it out but don't know if
> > the derig team will be strong enough to do it all. Until this trip to
> > Mexico I had been impressed with the conservation ethics of the Americans
> > who caved in Mexico, 'take nothing but photographs, leave nothing but
> > footprints', now needs a little rephrasing!
>
> --Mixon
> ----------------------------------------
> Don't be led astray into the paths of virtue.
> ----------------------------------------
> You may "reply" to the address this message
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
> Personal: [email protected]
> AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
>
>
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> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
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