texascavers Digest 20 Dec 2011 17:03:28 -0000 Issue 1458
Topics (messages 19217 through 19226):
Nong Khiaw
19217 by: bmorgan994.aol.com
19218 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com
19219 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com
Lost Oasis clean up
19220 by: Ron Ralph
Punkin Cave
19221 by: Jim Kennedy
19223 by: Carl Kunath
19224 by: Jim Kennedy
Re: NSS (New) Headquarters Update
19222 by: Gill Edigar
Who do you believe?
19225 by: Lee H. Skinner
19226 by: Heather Tucek
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
Directly in front of me is a stupendous cliff over a thousand feet tall and the
Nam Ou is at my feet. Meanwhile I'm enjoying a cup of expresso and a baguette
on the terrace of an elegant bamboo guest house while pondering which of the
many karst related options to pursue but I think it will be mountain biking to
the east. Every morning is cold and cloudy followed by beautiful sunny weather
in the afternoons with a high of about 75 to 80. The karst is unbelievble,
gigntic cliffs pocked with caves everywhere you look with the beautiful Nam Ou
cutting cutting a canyon over a thousand feet deep! Ann Harman and I are living
like barbaric royalty for about $25/day and having a totally great time. Beer
Lao is the world's best at $1 per quart and is my major expense. Delicious food
costs about $3 and is served while you recline on comfortable beds like Roman
gluttons. The CIA maps I am using don't even show a village where the tiny town
of Nong Khiaw is today. Yesterday We walked a couple of miles along the river
to a supposed "Pathet Lao" cave and paid the requisite 10,000 kip ($1.20)
Despite the rusted assault rifles in the mud the whole thing was a fake, but
what a bunch of fun! Caving is a major business here in Laos and the caves
range from the ridiculous to the sublime. The guides are invariably cute 10
year old kids, often girls, and there is nothing you can do to escape them.
Sometimes giggling hordes will follow you no matter how hard you try to drive
them off. All well and good but if you try to step off the beaten path without
a registered guide then the cops get involved and it could be costly,
especially if they find that bag of weed. I have located a major cave on my
topos for which there is no reference on the web or on the French Lao caves
project, so I reluctantly contacted a registered tour company. They explained
that the cave and environs thereabout are unknown so they cannot legally take
me there, but they did suggest that I directly contact a man named Souk who
works for the Commie government and whose job it is to scout out possible
caves, treks and visitable villages to make sure they are safe as in no
unexploded ordinance and no rebellious Hmong. Souk turned out to be a fine
fellow who will happily take me anywhere I want to go for about $20 per day so
the trip is a go. He knows about the cave and related a legend that five locals
went in and only one came out. Apparently no falang (foreigners) have ever been
there. The watershed that the cave drains is quite large and because of a
complete lack of access the valley appears to be pristine on google earth. I
don't give a damn about going far into a big nasty river cave. My goal is to
find a way over the mountain to the upstream entrance and the pristine valley
beyond. Tomorrow's trip is just to scout it out. A one hour boat ride in a
little motorized canoe then a two or three hour walk through ruined jungle to
the downstream entrance, all doable in one day. If the locals know a way to get
over the mountain then Ann and I will return with Souk to mount a multi day
expedition into the pristine valley. Wish us luck!
Sleaze
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great report, Sleaze!
Good luck on your endeavors and keep the reports coming.
Now, if only we could get some reports from Bill Steele and Diana
Tomchick, who currently are caving in China.
Thanks!
(Dejected and stuck here at work) Mark
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 11:36 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] Nong Khiaw
Directly in front of me is a stupendous cliff over a thousand feet tall
and the Nam Ou is at my feet. Meanwhile I'm enjoying a cup of expresso
and a baguette on the terrace of an elegant bamboo guest house while
pondering which of the many karst related options to pursue but I think
it will be mountain biking to the east. Every morning is cold and cloudy
followed by beautiful sunny weather in the afternoons with a high of
about 75 to 80. The karst is unbelievble, gigntic cliffs pocked with
caves everywhere you look with the beautiful Nam Ou cutting cutting a
canyon over a thousand feet deep! Ann Harman and I are living like
barbaric royalty for about $25/day and having a totally great time. Beer
Lao is the world's best at $1 per quart and is my major expense.
Delicious food costs about $3 and is served while you recline on
comfortable beds like Roman gluttons. The CIA maps I am using don't even
show a village where the tiny town of Nong Khiaw is today. Yesterday We
walked a couple of miles along the river to a supposed "Pathet Lao" cave
and paid the requisite 10,000 kip ($1.20) Despite the rusted assault
rifles in the mud the whole thing was a fake, but what a bunch of fun!
Caving is a major business here in Laos and the caves range from the
ridiculous to the sublime. The guides are invariably cute 10 year old
kids, often girls, and there is nothing you can do to escape them.
Sometimes giggling hordes will follow you no matter how hard you try to
drive them off. All well and good but if you try to step off the beaten
path without a registered guide then the cops get involved and it could
be costly, especially if they find that bag of weed. I have located a
major cave on my topos for which there is no reference on the web or on
the French Lao caves project, so I reluctantly contacted a registered
tour company. They explained that the cave and environs thereabout are
unknown so they cannot legally take me there, but they did suggest that
I directly contact a man named Souk who works for the Commie government
and whose job it is to scout out possible caves, treks and visitable
villages to make sure they are safe as in no unexploded ordinance and no
rebellious Hmong. Souk turned out to be a fine fellow who will happily
take me anywhere I want to go for about $20 per day so the trip is a go.
He knows about the cave and related a legend that five locals went in
and only one came out. Apparently no falang (foreigners) have ever been
there. The watershed that the cave drains is quite large and because of
a complete lack of access the valley appears to be pristine on google
earth. I don't give a damn about going far into a big nasty river cave.
My goal is to find a way over the mountain to the upstream entrance and
the pristine valley beyond. Tomorrow's trip is just to scout it out. A
one hour boat ride in a little motorized canoe then a two or three hour
walk through ruined jungle to the downstream entrance, all doable in one
day. If the locals know a way to get over the mountain then Ann and I
will return with Souk to mount a multi day expedition into the pristine
valley. Wish us luck!
Sleaze
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We'll do, Bill.
Have a safe trip and take a lot of pictures (which I know you will!).
Mark
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 8:24 AM
To: Alman, Mark @ SSG - WSG - EOS
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Nong Khiaw
Hi Mark,
Our China expedition is on! We are sorting gear now to take in Er Wang
Dong tomorrow for a five day underground camp, coming out on Christmas
cave. Five Americans (two live and work in China) and two Chinese are
going in to camp, explore, and survey.
Feel free to repost this on Texascavers.com.
Bill
.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
________________________________
From: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 07:38:09 -0600
To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Nong Khiaw
Great report, Sleaze!
Good luck on your endeavors and keep the reports coming.
Now, if only we could get some reports from Bill Steele and Diana
Tomchick, who currently are caving in China.
Thanks!
(Dejected and stuck here at work) Mark
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 11:36 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] Nong Khiaw
Directly in front of me is a stupendous cliff over a thousand feet tall
and the Nam Ou is at my feet. Meanwhile I'm enjoying a cup of expresso
and a baguette on the terrace of an elegant bamboo guest house while
pondering which of the many karst related options to pursue but I think
it will be mountain biking to the east. Every morning is cold and cloudy
followed by beautiful sunny weather in the afternoons with a high of
about 75 to 80. The karst is unbelievble, gigntic cliffs pocked with
caves everywhere you look with the beautiful Nam Ou cutting cutting a
canyon over a thousand feet deep! Ann Harman and I are living like
barbaric royalty for about $25/day and having a totally great time. Beer
Lao is the world's best at $1 per quart and is my major expense.
Delicious food costs about $3 and is served while you recline on
comfortable beds like Roman gluttons. The CIA maps I am using don't even
show a village where the tiny town of Nong Khiaw is today. Yesterday We
walked a couple of miles along the river to a supposed "Pathet Lao" cave
and paid the requisite 10,000 kip ($1.20) Despite the rusted assault
rifles in the mud the whole thing was a fake, but what a bunch of fun!
Caving is a major business here in Laos and the caves range from the
ridiculous to the sublime. The guides are invariably cute 10 year old
kids, often girls, and there is nothing you can do to escape them.
Sometimes giggling hordes will follow you no matter how hard you try to
drive them off. All well and good but if you try to step off the beaten
path without a registered guide then the cops get involved and it could
be costly, especially if they find that bag of weed. I have located a
major cave on my topos for which there is no reference on the web or on
the French Lao caves project, so I reluctantly contacted a registered
tour company. They explained that the cave and environs thereabout are
unknown so they cannot legally take me there, but they did suggest that
I directly contact a man named Souk who works for the Commie government
and whose job it is to scout out possible caves, treks and visitable
villages to make sure they are safe as in no unexploded ordinance and no
rebellious Hmong. Souk turned out to be a fine fellow who will happily
take me anywhere I want to go for about $20 per day so the trip is a go.
He knows about the cave and related a legend that five locals went in
and only one came out. Apparently no falang (foreigners) have ever been
there. The watershed that the cave drains is quite large and because of
a complete lack of access the valley appears to be pristine on google
earth. I don't give a damn about going far into a big nasty river cave.
My goal is to find a way over the mountain to the upstream entrance and
the pristine valley beyond. Tomorrow's trip is just to scout it out. A
one hour boat ride in a little motorized canoe then a two or three hour
walk through ruined jungle to the downstream entrance, all doable in one
day. If the locals know a way to get over the mountain then Ann and I
will return with Souk to mount a multi day expedition into the pristine
valley. Wish us luck!
Sleaze
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cavers,
I would like to thank the 11 volunteers who came out yesterday to help clear
brush and pick-up trash at the Texas Cave Management Association Lost Oasis
cave preserve in South Austin. Your efforts removed a great deal of the
thick brush, briers and small trees inside the chain link compound. You also
mostly completed the 25-foot firebreak on the south side against the
neighbor's wooden fence. A special thanks to Galen, Jim, Vico and Gill whose
chain saws shredded much of the vegetation. The crew also mowed the grass
flanking the front sidewalk and removed a lot of the encroaching vegetation
overgrowing the sidewalk. And two body bag sized trash containers were
filled with paper, plastic and other gifts of the neighboring community.
We will do this again in the spring to finish clearing the compound and
selectively clearing and removing lower branches on surrounding trees, so
stand by for another call for volunteers. And I hope those who went caving
enjoyed the TCMA preserve.
Ron Ralph
Lost Oasis preserve manager
Thanks to Robert Albach, Benjamin Nocholas Yasui, Denise Prendergast, Logan
McNatt. Galen Falgout. Vico Jones, Jim Kennedy, Ryan Monjaros, Devra Heyer,
Gill Ediger, and Bob Marshall.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Punkin Cave is now the 369th longest cave in the United States! Longer
than Cemetary Pit in Georgia. Longer than Kartchner Caverns in Arizona.
Longer than Hubbards Cave in Tennessee. Longer than Trout Cave in West
Virginia. And it will be even longer after the February expedition!
-- Crash
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Punkin CaveWhat is the straight line distance from the entrance datum to the
most remote part of the cave presently surveyed?
Just curious.
===Carl Kunath
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim Kennedy
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 4:20 PM
To: CaveTex
Subject: [Texascavers] Punkin Cave
Punkin Cave is now the 369th longest cave in the United States! Longer than
Cemetary Pit in Georgia. Longer than Kartchner Caverns in Arizona. Longer
than Hubbards Cave in Tennessee. Longer than Trout Cave in West Virginia. And
it will be even longer after the February expedition!
-- Crash
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good question, Carl. I can't figure out quite how to calculate that in WALLS,
but it is less than 200m. If you know the cave well and don't get lost, a
strong, fast-moving caver can get from anywhere in the cave to the big Entrance
Room in 20 minutes. But it is really easy to make a wrong turn and go for "de
tour." I've done it a few times myself, and I probably know the cave as well
as anyone. I can take you on a 4-5 hour rinky-dink without crossing your path
once and out of daylight the entire time. You will be so turned around you
wouldn't be able to say which way is north anymore. Punkin Cave is an
incredibly dense 3D maze. Think Chandelier Maze in Lechuguilla or Confusion
Tubes in Purificación, only on a smaller, more compact scale. The average
survey shot is around 3.4m. That is not because we can't make longer shots (we
could), but because there are intersections everywhere and we need to set the
stations so that we can survey in all directions. Just based on known leads
alone, we have another kilometer or so of passage to survey. We are currently
at 4090m (4443m of actual survey), which is just over 2.5 miles of passage.
And after we make the big breakout, who knows! The cave blows really strong
air from everywhere. I'm trying to get the latest trip report and lineplots
posted on the UT Grotto website with the rest of them, but we are currently
having some site access issues. Hopefully they will be up soon.
-- Jim
From: Carl Kunath [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 3:10 AM
To: CaveTex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Punkin Cave
What is the straight line distance from the entrance datum to the most remote
part of the cave presently surveyed?
Just curious.
===Carl Kunath
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Cheryl Jones <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 8:50 PM
Subject: NSS (New) Headquarters Update
To: [email protected]
[Forwarded]
NSS Headquarters Update - It's Ours!
The new headquarters is ours! We are looking forward to having the room to
accomplish great things. Over the last year many members dedicated
uncountable hours to achieve this.
First, our Board took the bold step to move forward with a vision for
expansion. OVP Luckins and S-T Young then negotiated a deal with the
Shriners that resulted in a win-win for both organizations. Once the
contract was signed and a financial institution selected from several
offers, the piles of paperwork began.
The National Speleological Foundation has provided immeasurable guidance to
the Society. I tip my helmet to both NSS and Foundation member Bert
Ashbrook and NSS legal counselors Joel Stevenson and Jay Clark for helping
us maneuver through the complex legal documents involved. The Foundation
has always been there for us, and we are very proud of our association with
them.
On December 15th we started signing as the clock struck 12. An hour later,
the keys were in our hands.
Headquarters Commission Chairman Dave Haun arrived on site that morning
with tape measure in hand and started sorting through plans. The Shriners
are as proud of their history as we are they retained everything,
including the original blueprints and colored pencil drawings. Dave has
spent days measuring and meeting with potential contractors for various
phases of our renovations as we tailor the facility to our specific vision.
Fundraising Chairman Bill Putnam has been working on several programs so
that every member can be part of this exciting step. Look for a new form to
appear on the NSS website on January 1st. You’ll be amazed at how little it
takes to do great things.
As President of the Society, I thank you for the opportunity to be at the
helm during this historic time. I’ll do my best to ensure our Society’s
goals are achieved as we move forward. The lamp is lit and new passages lay
before us…
Wm Shrewsbury, President
National Speleological Society
(Permission is granted to use this announcement in other caving related
electronic communications)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
*Eco Experts: Hollywood Did Not Harm Bulgarian Bats*
The bat colonies in Bulgaria's Devetashka cave have not been harmed
during the filming of the Hollywood blockbuster "The Expendables 2."
The announcement was made Tuesday by the Bulgarian Ministry of
Environment and Waters, after concluding an on the spot check ordered by
Environment Minister, Nona Karadzhova.
The probe came on the heels of eco activists alarming that due to the
noise during the shooting of the movie bats inside the cave, a key spot
for spending the winter season, have come out of hibernation much
earlier than usual and it is unclear how many will survive until spring.
They also found a number of dead bats.
It was reported a week ago that the European Commission has sent a
letter to the Bulgarian Ministry of Environment and Waters, inquiring
information on the case with the dead bats in the Devetashka cave.
<http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=134765>
Experts of the Ministry and of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, BAS,
now say that the majority of bats were found to be in hibernation and
the dead ones were within the norm of the usual mortality rate.
They have monitored over 7 300 different species of bats. The total
number of bats hibernating in the cave was estimated at 20 000.
Thus, the Ministry rejected Tuesday claims Hollywood activities have
harmed the bats, but ordered a ban on all visits in the cave for the
entire winter until hibernation is over.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder if they are redacting their previous reports because of the bad
press the movie was getting? The production could have either threatened a
lawsuit, or just as easily have paid them off in order to try to create a
better rep for the film.
It would be interesting to see what a non-government (perhaps even an
entirely non-Bulgarian) set of studies would turn up.
On 20 December 2011 10:07, Lee H. Skinner <[email protected]> wrote:
> *Eco Experts: Hollywood Did Not Harm Bulgarian Bats*
>
> The bat colonies in Bulgaria's Devetashka cave have not been harmed during
> the filming of the Hollywood blockbuster "The Expendables 2."
>
> The announcement was made Tuesday by the Bulgarian Ministry of Environment
> and Waters, after concluding an on the spot check ordered by Environment
> Minister, Nona Karadzhova.
>
> The probe came on the heels of eco activists alarming that due to the
> noise during the shooting of the movie bats inside the cave, a key spot for
> spending the winter season, have come out of hibernation much earlier than
> usual and it is unclear how many will survive until spring. They also found
> a number of dead bats.
>
> It was reported a week ago that the European Commission has sent a letter
> to the Bulgarian Ministry of Environment and Waters, inquiring information
> on the case with the dead bats in the Devetashka cave. <
> http://www.novinite.com/view_**news.php?id=134765<http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=134765>
> >
>
> Experts of the Ministry and of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, BAS, now
> say that the majority of bats were found to be in hibernation and the dead
> ones were within the norm of the usual mortality rate.
>
> They have monitored over 7 300 different species of bats. The total number
> of bats hibernating in the cave was estimated at 20 000.
>
> Thus, the Ministry rejected Tuesday claims Hollywood activities have
> harmed the bats, but ordered a ban on all visits in the cave for the
> entire winter until hibernation is over.
>
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
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>
>
--
*Go find out!*
-Heather Tuček
UT Grotto
TSA Membership Chair
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
[email protected]
--- End Message ---
