texascavers Digest 18 Mar 2011 16:22:43 -0000 Issue 1269

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 18 Mar 2011 16:22:43 -0000 Issue 1269

Topics (messages 17393 through 17400):

Japan earthquake displaced water in Edwards Aquifer
        17393 by: Joe Ranzau

Re: Off Topic - Where's the REAL OT List?
        17394 by: Rod Goke
        17395 by: Sheryl Rieck
        17396 by: Don Arburn
        17398 by: Fritz Holt

TSA Convention Speaker Announcement
        17397 by: Mallory Mayeux
        17399 by: Mark Alman

headquarters commission report
        17400 by: Mixon Bill

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--- Begin Message ---

The water level of Texas' Edwards Aquifer was displaced about a foot
Friday after energy released from a massive earthquake near Japan put
the squeeze on the underground rock formation that supplies drinking
water for much of Central Texas.

The 9.0-magnitude quake caused its walls to contract and expand,
officials with the Edwards Aquifer Authority said Wednesday. A monitor
in a Bexar County well that continuously records the aquifer's water
level noted the oscillations, which lasted about two hours from late
Thursday to early Friday morning, said Geary Schindel , the
authority's chief technical officer. The force from the quake took
about 15 minutes to reach the aquifer, he said.

"When a wave from an earthquake passes, it slightly compresses and
dilates the aquifer, and the water will shoot up and down," Schindel
said. "Any time we see a major earthquake, it's commonly recorded in
that well. They act as seismographs."

The oscillations during high-energy earthquakes are common in artesian
aquifers, or confined aquifers, where the water is pressurized,
including the Edwards Aquifer, Schindel said. "We saw Haiti, we saw
Sumatra, Japan, a couple in Mexico and Alaska," he said of recent
earthquakes.

The well, named J-17 , has been monitoring the aquifer's water level
in Bexar County since the 1950s, Schindel said. A float that rests on
the water surface hundreds of feet underground is connected to a wire
and a wheel that records the level on pen and paper, he said. Water
restrictions are tied to readings, Schindel said.

The sprawling aquifer cuts underground through Central Texas and
provides drinking water for about 1.7 million people, including most
of San Antonio, said Roland Ruiz, spokesman for the regulatory agency
that manages and protects the aquifer's San Antonio segment.

ddoolit...@statesman.com; 445-3671

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/japan-earthquake-displaced-water-in-edwards-aquifer-1326387.html

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It seems to me that attitudes towards the "OT List" on Texascavers have been something like the following:     We tried setting up an OT List, but nobody uses it.     Perhaps they don't know how to use it.     No. It's easy. Just read the directions.     Where can I find the directions?     Look in the cabinet.     The cabinet is locked. How can I get in?     Use the key?     Where's the key.     Look next to the needle.     What needle?     The one in the haystack.     Never mind. I don't want to use it after all.     You see, even you won't use it, so there's no     point in wasting effort to improve it. It was nice of Louise to provide the OT address. That's more than anyone else has done lately to make the OT List useable, but it's not a complete answer. What are we supposed to do with that address? How can we receive the OT messages? I bet that we first have to do something to subscribe to the OT List, but exactly how are Texascavers subscribers supposed to do that? Likewise, if you want to send a message to the OT List, how do you do that? Perhaps you simply email it to the OT address, right? Well, if you do that, you get the following "failure notice" from mailer-dae...@gnome.wokka.org:    Hi. This is the qmail-send program at gnome.wokka.org.    I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.    This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.    <o...@texascavers.com>:    Sorry, only subscribers may post. If you are a subscriber, please forward    this message to ot-ow...@texascavers.com to get your new address    included (#5.7.2)    ... Exploring this kind of digital obstacle course might be tolerable for people really determined to use the service, but for Texascavers subscribers seeking a convenient way to engage in "virtual campfire" chat, it's no wonder that no one bothers to use it. Rod -----Original Message----- From: Louise Power  Sent: Mar 16, 2011 3:04 AM To: Rod Goke , Texas Cavers  Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Off Topic - Where's the REAL OT List? For those of you who wanted it, the OT address is: o...@texascavers.com  People used it for awhile after it was established, but sort of veered off after a time. Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 02:26:13 -0500 From: rod.g...@earthlink.net To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Off Topic - Where's the REAL OT List? R D asked, "Is it that difficult to post other material in a separate place?" Unfortunately, it is quite difficult for anyone who has no clue about how to do it, and I suspect that most of the subscribers to Texascavers fall into this category. During the last several years, I've seen a number of messages on this list asking people to take various topics to the mysterious OT list, but I don't think I've ever seen a message explaining how to do that. No wonder nobody (or practically nobody) uses it! If we want people to make use of a "REAL OT List" then we need to make sure that there is an easy way for people to read it and to post messages there, and we need to publicize the directions enough on Texascavers so that people will actually know how to do it. Also, whenever a new discussion thread begins on the OT list, it would be useful for someone to alert us with a brief message posted to Texascavers. Otherwise, people interested in an OT topic are liable to miss the discussion by not checking the OT list, in which case, writers will be tempted to post everything to the regular Texascavers list, because they think no one is reading the OT list. Rod ---------------------- From: R D Milhollin  Sent: Mar 15, 2011 9:28 PM To: Cave Texas  Subject: [Texascavers] Off Topic - Where's the REAL OT List? There has been a lot of non-cave, non-caving, and non-caver posting here lately. I remember (and subscribed to) a separate list that I understood was expressly for that sort of stuff: cavers posting about non-cave-related topics. Does anyone else remember this? Seems that my mailbox set to receive caving stuff is getting filled up with other, unrelated material. I expect to read about WNS, caving trips, convention and meeting announcements, news about fellow cavers, cave cleanups, cave publications, and other information I can't find anywhere else, or nearly anywhere else here on the Texas Cavers list. Is it that difficult to post other material in a separate place?  --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

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--- Begin Message ---

Well, the below made me laugh. Thanks for that, Rod.

Here are my two cents. I don't see what the big deal is. I don't want to
read 50 posts about why everyone should join the NSS and another 50 about
every single solitary caving related event the world over. So I use my
delete button. I actually enjoy a lot of the off-topic conversation. That
which I do not enjoy, I delete. Please tell me how lazy you have to be to
think that clicking a button that takes less than 2 seconds to click is a
big deal. Most email programs allow for multiple deletes.  I wonder how long
it takes to write the email complaining about the emails?

So, there is my opinion. It isn't worth much, but it is all I have. :-) See
you at TSA Spring Convention!

Sheryl



On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Rod Goke <rod.g...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
> It seems to me that attitudes towards the "OT List" on Texascavers have
> been something like the following:
>
>
>     We tried setting up an OT List, but nobody uses it.
>
>
>     Perhaps they don't know how to use it.
>
>
>     No. It's easy. Just read the directions.
>
>
>     Where can I find the directions?
>
>
>     Look in the cabinet.
>
>
>     The cabinet is locked. How can I get in?
>
>
>     Use the key?
>
>
>     Where's the key.
>
>
>     Look next to the needle.
>
>
>     What needle?
>
>
>     The one in the haystack.
>
>
>     Never mind. I don't want to use it after all.
>
>
>     You see, even you won't use it, so there's no
>
>     point in wasting effort to improve it.
>
>
> It was nice of Louise to provide the OT address. That's more than anyone
> else has done lately to make the OT List useable, but it's not a complete
> answer. What are we supposed to do with that address? How can we receive the
> OT messages? I bet that we first have to do something to subscribe to the OT
> List, but exactly how are Texascavers subscribers supposed to do that?
> Likewise, if you want to send a message to the OT List, how do you do that?
> Perhaps you simply email it to the OT address, right? Well, if you do that,
> you get the following "failure notice" from mailer-dae...@gnome.wokka.org:
>
>
>    Hi. This is the qmail-send program at gnome.wokka.org.
>
>    I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following
> addresses.
>
>    This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
>
>
>    <o...@texascavers.com>:
>
>
>    Sorry, only subscribers may post. If you are a subscriber, please
> forward
>
>    this message to ot-ow...@texascavers.com to get your new address
>
>    included (#5.7.2)
>
>    ...
>
>
> Exploring this kind of digital obstacle course might be tolerable for
> people really determined to use the service, but for Texascavers subscribers
> seeking a convenient way to engage in "virtual campfire" chat, it's no
> wonder that no one bothers to use it.
>
>
> Rod
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> From: Louise Power
>
> Sent: Mar 16, 2011 3:04 AM
>
> To: Rod Goke , Texas Cavers
>
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Off Topic - Where's the REAL OT List?
>
>
>
> For those of you who wanted it, the OT address is:
>
> o...@texascavers.com
>
> People used it for awhile after it was established, but sort of veered off
> after a time.
>
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 02:26:13 -0500
>
> From: rod.g...@earthlink.net
>
> To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
>
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Off Topic - Where's the REAL OT List?
>
>
>
>
>
> R D asked,
>
>
> "Is it that difficult to post other material in a separate place?"
>
>
> Unfortunately, it is quite difficult for anyone who has no clue about how
> to do it, and I suspect that most of the subscribers to Texascavers fall
> into this category. During the last several years, I've seen a number of
> messages on this list asking people to take various topics to the mysterious
> OT list, but I don't think I've ever seen a message explaining how to do
> that. No wonder nobody (or practically nobody) uses it!
>
>
> If we want people to make use of a "REAL OT List" then we need to make sure
> that there is an easy way for people to read it and to post messages there,
> and we need to publicize the directions enough on Texascavers so that people
> will actually know how to do it. Also, whenever a new discussion thread
> begins on the OT list, it would be useful for someone to alert us with a
> brief message posted to Texascavers. Otherwise, people interested in an OT
> topic are liable to miss the discussion by not checking the OT list, in
> which case, writers will be tempted to post everything to the regular
> Texascavers list, because they think no one is reading the OT list.
>
>
> Rod
>
>
> ----------------------
>
>
> From: R D Milhollin
>
> Sent: Mar 15, 2011 9:28 PM
>
> To: Cave Texas
>
> Subject: [Texascavers] Off Topic - Where's the REAL OT List?
>
>
> There has been a lot of non-cave, non-caving, and non-caver posting here
> lately. I remember (and subscribed to) a separate list that I understood was
> expressly for that sort of stuff: cavers posting about non-cave-related
> topics. Does anyone else remember this? Seems that my mailbox set to receive
> caving stuff is getting filled up with other, unrelated material.
>
>
> I expect to read about WNS, caving trips, convention and meeting
> announcements, news about fellow cavers, cave cleanups, cave publications,
> and other information I can't find anywhere else, or nearly anywhere else
> here on the Texas Cavers list. Is it that difficult to post other material
> in a separate place?
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
>
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit
> our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail:
> texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

One of the main reasons I hang and cave with Cavers are THE INTERESTING THINGS 
WE DISCUSS. Caving related or not, the wonderful diversity of opinions, 
beliefs, vocations...

Rod, excellent insight.

Sheryl, EXACTLY.

Can you read the header? Don't want to be bothered?
DELETE.

Sorry, my opinion is TOUGH

Y'all are friends, I enjoy what you offer and say, on topic or not.

Post, read, enjoy.


Don's iPhone.

On Mar 17, 2011, at 8:03 PM, Sheryl Rieck <sheryl.ri...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, the below made me laugh. Thanks for that, Rod.
> 
> 
> Sheryl
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Rod Goke <rod.g...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> It seems to me that attitudes towards the "OT List" on Texascavers have been 
> something like the following:
> 
>     We tried setting up an OT List, but nobody uses ...

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

In a futile attempt to stay out of trouble, I post far more on OT than on 
Cavetex. I hope some of it is of interest or entertaining.

Geezer

________________________________
From: Don Arburn [mailto:donarb...@mac.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:42 PM
Cc: TexasCavers
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Off Topic - Where's the REAL OT List?

One of the main reasons I hang and cave with Cavers are THE INTERESTING THINGS 
WE DISCUSS. Caving related or not, the wonderful diversity of opinions, 
beliefs, vocations...

Rod, excellent insight.

Sheryl, EXACTLY.

Can you read the header? Don't want to be bothered?
DELETE.

Sorry, my opinion is TOUGH

Y'all are friends, I enjoy what you offer and say, on topic or not.

Post, read, enjoy.


Don's iPhone.

On Mar 17, 2011, at 8:03 PM, Sheryl Rieck 
<sheryl.ri...@gmail.com<mailto:sheryl.ri...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Well, the below made me laugh. Thanks for that, Rod.


Sheryl

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Rod Goke 
<<mailto:rod.g...@earthlink.net>rod.g...@earthlink.net<mailto:rod.g...@earthlink.net>>
 wrote:



It seems to me that attitudes towards the "OT List" on Texascavers have been 
something like the following:



    We tried setting up an OT List, but nobody uses ...

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Hello Cavers!



As Mark said yesterday, TSA is sneaking up on us quick--two weeks! I can’t
wait to see everyone in Brackettville!



Roger Moore and I have been lining up Saturday’s speakers. We are going for
a mix of entertaining and informative talks, and I think we have some great
presentations in store. We’ve gotten some requests to announce who will be
speaking, so without further ado, here are the speakers for TSA (times AND
order of talks TBA)



David Ochel—O9 Well: Re-survey and exploration efforts

Jacqui Thomas—Five Mouth Project: More than a Dig

FoFo Gonzales—Caves of Mineral King, CA
Peter Drushcke--Discovery, gating and work at Kypet Cavern, Grand Canyon

Charles Perkins—Bats and Microclimate Monitoring of Gorman Cave, Colorado
Bend SP

Jean Krejca/Geoffrey Hoese—Caving in the Galapagos Islands

John Moses—Cave Hunting in West Texas
Dwight Deal—Wulong Karst World Heritage Site, China

Ron Ralph—50th Anniversary of the TSS AND Announcement of a new Project

Bill Steele—Caving non-fiction poetry AND DFW Grotto Project to map Spring
Creek Cave, Kendall Co.

And possibly a last minute surprise. J

Any questions/requests, let us know (we have a light schedule so if there is
something you'd really like to present, let me know--we could accommodate
one more speaker. Otherwise, we will have additional time for questions,
breaks, etc.)

See you all in two weeks!

-Mallory Mayeux & Roger Moore

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Wow, what a fascinating and varied mix of presenations, Mallory!

You and Roger have done a marvelous job and I appreciate y'all heading this up!

Great job!

The two of you had some huge shoes to fill (Diana Tomchick and Bill Steele) and 
I wanted to thank them for lining up speakers for the last several conventions 
and the two of you for your efforts.

Looking forward to it!

Now, if we can only get Stefan to post the menu for the Saturday night feed, 
all 
will be in order and right with the world!


Thanks!


(An always thinking with his stomach) Mark




________________________________
From: Mallory Mayeux <mmay...@gmail.com>
To: "Texascavers@Texascavers.Com" <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Sent: Fri, March 18, 2011 10:12:49 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] TSA Convention Speaker Announcement


Hello Cavers!
 
As Mark said yesterday, TSA is sneaking up on us quick--two weeks! I can’t wait 
to see everyone in Brackettville!
 
Roger Moore and I have been lining up Saturday’s speakers. We are going for a 
mix of entertaining and informative talks, and I think we have some great 
presentations in store. We’ve gotten some requests to announce who will be 
speaking, so without further ado, here are the speakers for TSA (times AND 
order 
of talks TBA) 

 
David Ochel—O9 Well: Re-survey and exploration efforts
Jacqui Thomas—Five Mouth Project: More than a Dig
FoFo Gonzales—Caves of Mineral King, CAPeter Drushcke--Discovery, gating and 
work at Kypet Cavern, Grand Canyon
Charles Perkins—Bats and Microclimate Monitoring of Gorman Cave, Colorado Bend 
SP
Jean Krejca/Geoffrey Hoese—Caving in the Galapagos Islands
John Moses—Cave Hunting in West TexasDwight Deal—Wulong Karst World Heritage 
Site, China
Ron Ralph—50th Anniversary of the TSS AND Announcement of a new Project
Bill Steele—Caving non-fiction poetry AND DFW Grotto Project to map Spring 
Creek 
Cave, Kendall Co.  
 
And possibly a last minute surprise. J
 
Any questions/requests, let us know (we have a light schedule so if there is 
something you'd really like to present, let me know--we could accommodate one 
more speaker. Otherwise, we will have additional time for questions, breaks, 
etc.) 

 
See you all in two weeks! 
 
-Mallory Mayeux & Roger Moore


      

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message --- I have been maintaining a blissful ignorance of the whole business of relocating the NSS "headquarters." But somebody posted something on the Texas cavers' e-mail list pointing to the commission's report for the April BOG meeting and urging us to send opinions to the BOG. So here's one (that you will take for what it's worth since I don't really know what all has been going on for the last few years about this).

There is a conspicuous lack of bottom line in all the options. How much would remodeling existing buildings cost? How much would it cost to build on the open-land options? Looks like a progress report, but nothing one can base any decisions on.

I am impressed by the low cost of the rural land in the Mammoth Cave area. Around here (Austin, Texas), you'd be looking at $10,000+ an acre for large parcels of anything that can be built on. My five acres, worthless for agriculture, twenty miles from the middle of town, and on an unmaintained road, is assessed at $20,000 an acre.

I keep hearing about a thousand-member drop over the last year. Is this a time to create a monument to the NSS or to hunker down and pay attention to business? I realize that the plan is to raise donations for whatever is bought or built, but what about future operating expenses? Do you plan to raise again as much as an endowment to cover things like utilities and repairs, or will that come out of (apparently decreasing) dues income?

It looks to me like all the plans assume doing more than just increasing the amount of space available for existing NSS services. The Huntsville buildings are five to ten times as large as what we're presently getting by with. The discussions of the Kentucky options emphasize the proximity to tourists. Clearly plans for expansion include some public-outreach sort of things--a museum with displays and so on. Don't forget that that sort of thing comes with lots of expenses for additional staff, etc. There would be a great danger that the tail would end up wagging the dog, and the NSS would turn into a museum with a national association attached. That's exactly what happened to that American Cave Conservation Association. I recall when some BOG members were really worried that it would steal our members and our franchise as a nationwide cave-conservation organization, and it turned into nothing more than a musuem and show cave in Horse Cave, Kentucky.

One advantage of the rural locations in Kentucky is that we wouldn't have to build more than we really needed immediately, provided, of course, that those NSS members with an edifice lust can be sat on. On the other hand, I suppose some excess space in the Huntspatch buildings could be rented out. -- Bill Mixon

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