texascavers Digest 24 May 2012 14:13:53 -0000 Issue 1557
Topics (messages 20037 through 20043):
Poor little rattlesnakes
20037 by: BMorgan994.aol.com
20038 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com
20039 by: Cook, Brett
20041 by: wesley s
20043 by: Gill Edigar
Western cavers party in the Southeast
20040 by: F D CAUDLE
Bat Flight
20042 by: Mark Minton
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
Here in Florida diamondbacks are one of the few snake species that appear
to be making it through the great die off of all life on earth. They are
very scarce but they are still around. I have seen three this spring. There
are still a fair number of moccasins deep in the swamps, but virtually all
other so called "common" species such as watersnakes have gone the way of the
dinosaur. I have a friend who for years has had a standing offer of $50
for a male garter snake, that's right, garter snake, but no takers thus far
despite concerted efforts by teams of experienced herpers.
Did anybody check out the link? It is a website for right wing bible
beating wackos from Waco. They think it is all about land rights and so do I.
Anyone who abuses "their" land or the plants and animals therein (lets add
water, rocks, and caves too!) should have their land confiscated by big
government and the land set aside in perpetuity as a park. Their cattle should
be shot to feed the coyotes, the fences should be torn down, the buildings
burned, and their asses should be thrown in jail, or better still their asses
should be filled with lead along with the cows. That is the way they do it
in Africa, shoot a rhino in a game park and get a few rounds in return.
"But but but, I have a god given right to shoot rhinos, my family is hungry,
and its a tradition cuz my daddy did it too". Bam! Another boog for the
buzzards. I hear tell they like rednecks too.
Speaking of shooting, when are they going to run out of either bullets or
young men in Mexico? Either one is fine with me. It has been too long since
I have been there and want to go back.
Since I am in a global climate change challenged bad mood let me remind all
of you again to please please pretty please don't simply reply to the list
so I won't have to see your list of your ten favorite things about caves
repeated a hundred times along with all the other items that have nothing to
do with the subject at hand.
My personal favorite thing about caving is the hot tub! Cold beer, roaring
bonfire, bad jokes, and beautiful naked women. What's not to love?
Sleaze
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not sure if I would blame global warming or climate change for all of
the indigenous snakes in FL disappearing.
>From what I have read, all of the "pet" boas and pythons that folks have
bought, and later discarded, are really wreaking havoc down there.
Whaddya think, Sleaze?
Mark
From: bmorgan...@aol.com [mailto:bmorgan...@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 1:51 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Poor little rattlesnakes
Here in Florida diamondbacks are one of the few snake species that
appear to be making it through the great die off of all life on earth.
They are very scarce but they are still around. I have seen three this
spring. There are still a fair number of moccasins deep in the swamps,
but virtually all other so called "common" species such as watersnakes
have gone the way of the dinosaur. I have a friend who for years has had
a standing offer of $50 for a male garter snake, that's right, garter
snake, but no takers thus far despite concerted efforts by teams of
experienced herpers.
Did anybody check out the link? It is a website for right wing bible
beating wackos from Waco. They think it is all about land rights and so
do I. Anyone who abuses "their" land or the plants and animals therein
(lets add water, rocks, and caves too!) should have their land
confiscated by big government and the land set aside in perpetuity as a
park. Their cattle should be shot to feed the coyotes, the fences should
be torn down, the buildings burned, and their asses should be thrown in
jail, or better still their asses should be filled with lead along with
the cows. That is the way they do it in Africa, shoot a rhino in a game
park and get a few rounds in return. "But but but, I have a god given
right to shoot rhinos, my family is hungry, and its a tradition cuz my
daddy did it too". Bam! Another boog for the buzzards. I hear tell they
like rednecks too.
Speaking of shooting, when are they going to run out of either bullets
or young men in Mexico? Either one is fine with me. It has been too long
since I have been there and want to go back.
Since I am in a global climate change challenged bad mood let me remind
all of you again to please please pretty please don't simply reply to
the list so I won't have to see your list of your ten favorite things
about caves repeated a hundred times along with all the other items that
have nothing to do with the subject at hand.
My personal favorite thing about caving is the hot tub! Cold beer,
roaring bonfire, bad jokes, and beautiful naked women. What's not to
love?
Sleaze
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That’s hilarious!
I remember one of our friends telling us about a time they found a gila monster
in the backyard. They trapped it and took it off into the desert to find a new
home. It was something like a week later, they saw the gila monster back in
their back yard! This time, they hauled it far, far away and released it.
A couple of weeks or so later, they noticed a gila monster sitting on the wall.
You can imagine their surprise. Upon closer inspection, this tuned out to be
made of rubber, placed there by a neighbor who wanted to have some fun! :)
Brett
From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:41 AM
To: Andy Gluesenkamp; Off-Topic Texas Cavers; Texas Cavers;
mandy.h...@ers.state.tx.us; jennyh...@anthonytravel.com; bbat...@gmail.com;
sashm...@sbcglobal.net; samashm...@sbcglobal.net;
sdear...@townandcountryins.com; hea...@satx.rr.com; kittymr...@aol.com;
janjanj...@aol.com; jim.sher...@ers.state.tx.us; j_e_wag...@comcast.net;
ka...@karenashmore.com; badba...@sbcglobal.net; r_isaac...@sbcglobal.net; Fritz
Holt
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] FW: Poor little rattlesnakes
At Carlsbad Caverns we were strictly forbidden to kill any kind of wildlife
even if it wandered down into the housing area--including snakes, skunks, etc.
If it was a snake, we called maintenance, they came down with a big trashcan
and coaxed it in. Then they'd take it out one of the dirt roads to the
"outback" where they'd let it go. I never knew if we were seeing a different
snake or one that stopped by for a truck ride back home.
Louise
fmrcvr
________________________________
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 09:05:06 -0700
From: andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com
To: o...@texascavers.com; texascavers@texascavers.com;
mandy.h...@ers.state.tx.us; jennyh...@anthonytravel.com; bbat...@gmail.com;
sashm...@sbcglobal.net; samashm...@sbcglobal.net;
sdear...@townandcountryins.com; hea...@satx.rr.com; kittymr...@aol.com;
janjanj...@aol.com; jim.sher...@ers.state.tx.us; j_e_wag...@comcast.net;
ka...@karenashmore.com; badba...@sbcglobal.net; r_isaac...@sbcglobal.net;
fh...@townandcountryins.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] FW: Poor little rattlesnakes
Rattlesnake conservation is a tough row to hoe, period.
Not a lot of fondness on the part of the general public for a creature that the
Book tells us is the definition of evil.
Andy
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
a...@gluesenkamp.com
--- On Tue, 5/22/12, Fritz Holt <fh...@townandcountryins.com> wrote:
From: Fritz Holt <fh...@townandcountryins.com>
Subject: [Texascavers] FW: Poor little rattlesnakes
To: "Off-Topic Texas Cavers" <o...@texascavers.com>, "TexasCavers"
<texascavers@texascavers.com>, "'Mandy Holt'" <mandy.h...@ers.state.tx.us>,
"'Jenny Holt'" <jennyh...@anthonytravel.com>, "'bbat...@gmail.com'"
<bbat...@gmail.com>, "'Steve Ashmore'" <sashm...@sbcglobal.net>, "'Sam
Ashmore'" <samashm...@sbcglobal.net>, "Sally Dearing"
<sdear...@townandcountryins.com>, "'Guy Heath'" <hea...@satx.rr.com>, "'June
Levy'" <kittymr...@aol.com>, "'Janice Vieira'" <janjanj...@aol.com>, "'Jim
Sherwin'" <jim.sher...@ers.state.tx.us>, "'James E. Wagner'"
<j_e_wag...@comcast.net>, "'Karen Ashmore'" <ka...@karenashmore.com>, "'Debra
Batts'" <badba...@sbcglobal.net>, "'r_isaac...@sbcglobal.net'"
<r_isaac...@sbcglobal.net>
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2012, 10:44 AM
I don’t share my good friend’s feelings about rattlesnakes as I like and am
amazed by all snakes and reptiles in general. Being a city dude I took every
opportunity to have outdoor adventures and to take my family camping. My
daughters and I still enjoy it to this day. We still remove turtles to the
relative safety of our highway rights of way. Too many uninformed individuals
condemn all snakes due to the lack of public education such as that afforded by
BCI for bats. If harmful snakes invade your immediate territory remove them to
a distant similar habitat. I consider myself an environmentalist but not so
extreme as to place all creatures needs above that of man. There is always a
way to satisfy both goals. While I like to see rattlesnakes protected, they
should not be placed on the endangered species list unless there is solid
evidence that they are in danger of becoming extinct. There is already too much
government intervention in our daily lives. I have never been in favor of the
Sweetwater Rattlesnake Roundup and other such events even if it did put them on
the map for tourists. This is money the town could do without. VIVA LA
RATTLESNAKE!
Fritz
________________________________
Well, I WILL admit that any rattlesnake who ventures onto MY yard IS
endangered! We have an understanding. THEY stay in the wild and do NOT come
in MY territory and I will leave them alone. Otherwise, they will go to the
great snake heaven in the sky.
Jackie
Feds Considering Adding Rattlesnakes to ‘Endangered Species List’ to Deny Land
Rights<http://visiontoamerica.org/9869/feds-considering-adding-rattlesnakes-to-endangered-species-list-to-deny-land-rights/>
Environmental groups have convinced the federal government to propose listing
the poisonous eastern diamondback rattlesnake as an endangered species in order
to protect the reptile from “human persecution.”
“Survival of these snakes in large part depends on whether people continue to
persecute them or instead choose to allow these amazing creatures to share the
land with us,” Bill Matturro, spokesman for Protect All Living Species, said in
welcoming the government’s decision, announced earlier this month. “In the
Southeast, we are blessed with a rich natural heritage of animals and plants.
All of these species—even the rattlesnakes—should be allowed to exist.”
The Fish and Wildlife Service says they are taking comments on listing the
snake because environmental groups presented “substantial scientific or
commercial information indicating that listing the eastern diamondback
rattlesnake may be warranted.”
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We have deterrents in place like chickens and a cat but they still come into
our territory. Drawn no doubt by the abundant food and water. We gave the last
snake a three strikes policy and after being hosed down and chased off twice it
came back onto our front porch where it was dispatched. I would have relocated
it were i home at the time but Alia did what she could. So far the rest have
been more respectful of our boundaries. I say live and let live. They keep the
mice down for us and that counts for something.
Wes~
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 09:05:06 -0700
From: andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com
To: o...@texascavers.com; texascavers@texascavers.com;
mandy.h...@ers.state.tx.us; jennyh...@anthonytravel.com; bbat...@gmail.com;
sashm...@sbcglobal.net; samashm...@sbcglobal.net;
sdear...@townandcountryins.com; hea...@satx.rr.com; kittymr...@aol.com;
janjanj...@aol.com; jim.sher...@ers.state.tx.us; j_e_wag...@comcast.net;
ka...@karenashmore.com; badba...@sbcglobal.net; r_isaac...@sbcglobal.net;
fh...@townandcountryins.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] FW: Poor little rattlesnakes
Rattlesnake conservation is a tough row to hoe, period.
Not a lot of fondness on the part of the general public for a creature that the
Book tells us is the definition of evil.
Andy
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
a...@gluesenkamp.com
--- On Tue, 5/22/12, Fritz Holt <fh...@townandcountryins.com> wrote:
From: Fritz Holt <fh...@townandcountryins.com>
Subject: [Texascavers] FW: Poor little rattlesnakes
To: "Off-Topic Texas Cavers" <o...@texascavers.com>, "TexasCavers"
<texascavers@texascavers.com>, "'Mandy Holt'" <mandy.h...@ers.state.tx.us>,
"'Jenny Holt'" <jennyh...@anthonytravel.com>, "'bbat...@gmail.com'"
<bbat...@gmail.com>, "'Steve Ashmore'" <sashm...@sbcglobal.net>, "'Sam
Ashmore'" <samashm...@sbcglobal.net>, "Sally Dearing"
<sdear...@townandcountryins.com>, "'Guy Heath'" <hea...@satx.rr.com>, "'June
Levy'" <kittymr...@aol.com>, "'Janice Vieira'" <janjanj...@aol.com>, "'Jim
Sherwin'" <jim.sher...@ers.state.tx.us>, "'James E. Wagner'"
<j_e_wag...@comcast.net>, "'Karen Ashmore'" <ka...@karenashmore.com>, "'Debra
Batts'" <badba...@sbcglobal.net>, "'r_isaac...@sbcglobal.net'"
<r_isaac...@sbcglobal.net>
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2012, 10:44 AM
I don’t share my good friend’s feelings about rattlesnakes as I like and am
amazed by all snakes and reptiles in general. Being a city dude I took every
opportunity to have outdoor adventures and to take my family camping. My
daughters and I still enjoy it to this day. We still remove turtles to the
relative safety of our highway rights of way. Too many uninformed individuals
condemn all snakes due to the lack of public education such as that afforded by
BCI for bats. If harmful snakes invade your immediate territory remove them to
a distant similar habitat. I consider myself an environmentalist but not so
extreme as to place all creatures needs above that of man. There is always a
way to satisfy both goals. While I like to see rattlesnakes protected, they
should not be placed on the endangered species list unless there is solid
evidence that they are in danger of becoming extinct. There is already too much
government intervention in our daily lives. I have never been in favor of the
Sweetwater Rattlesnake Roundup and other such events even if it did put them on
the map for tourists. This is money the town could do without. VIVA LA
RATTLESNAKE!
Fritz
Well, I WILL admit that any rattlesnake who ventures onto MY yard IS
endangered! We have an understanding. THEY stay in the wild and do NOT come
in MY territory and I will leave them alone. Otherwise, they will go to the
great snake heaven in the sky.
Jackie
Feds Considering Adding Rattlesnakes to ‘Endangered Species List’ to Deny Land
Rights
Environmental groups have convinced the federal government to propose listing
the poisonous eastern diamondback rattlesnake as an endangered species in order
to protect the reptile from “human persecution.”
“Survival of these snakes in large part depends on whether people continue to
persecute them or instead choose to allow these amazing creatures to share the
land with us,” Bill Matturro, spokesman for Protect All Living Species, said in
welcoming the government’s decision, announced earlier this month. “In the
Southeast, we are blessed with a rich natural heritage of animals and plants.
All of these species—even the rattlesnakes—should be allowed to exist.”
The Fish and Wildlife Service says they are taking comments on listing the
snake because environmental groups presented “substantial scientific or
commercial information indicating that listing the eastern diamondback
rattlesnake may be warranted.”
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At the Welder Wildlife Foundation headquarters (living quarters, lab and
libraries, admin offices, etc) comprising an area of 5 or so acres they
have a 4-foot high hog-wire perimeter fence with a 12 or 18 inch barrier of
1/2-inch hardware cloth (set into the soil a couple of inches) wired to to
the bottom of the hog-wire around the entire perimeter. The hog-wire keeps
the larger animals out of the compound and the 1/2-inch mesh keeps the
majority of the rattle snakes out. Desirable snakes and other beasts are
permitted inside the compound.
--Ediger
On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 2:13 PM, wesley s <mudmal...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> We have deterrents in place like chickens and a cat but they still come
> into our territory. Drawn no doubt by the abundant food and water. We gave
> the last snake a three strikes policy and after being hosed down and chased
> off twice it came back onto our front porch where it was dispatched. I
> would have relocated it were i home at the time but Alia did what she
> could. So far the rest have been more respectful of our boundaries. I say
> live and let live. They keep the mice down for us and that counts for
> something.
>
> Wes~
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 09:05:06 -0700
> From: andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com
> To: o...@texascavers.com; texascavers@texascavers.com;
> mandy.h...@ers.state.tx.us; jennyh...@anthonytravel.com; bbat...@gmail.com;
> sashm...@sbcglobal.net; samashm...@sbcglobal.net;
> sdear...@townandcountryins.com; hea...@satx.rr.com; kittymr...@aol.com;
> janjanj...@aol.com; jim.sher...@ers.state.tx.us; j_e_wag...@comcast.net;
> ka...@karenashmore.com; badba...@sbcglobal.net; r_isaac...@sbcglobal.net;
> fh...@townandcountryins.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] FW: Poor little rattlesnakes
>
>
> Rattlesnake conservation is a tough row to hoe, period.
> Not a lot of fondness on the part of the general public for a creature
> that the Book tells us is the definition of evil.
>
> Andy
>
> Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
> 700 Billie Brooks Drive
> Driftwood, Texas 78619
> (512) 799-1095
> a...@gluesenkamp.com
>
> --- On *Tue, 5/22/12, Fritz Holt <fh...@townandcountryins.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Fritz Holt <fh...@townandcountryins.com>
> Subject: [Texascavers] FW: Poor little rattlesnakes
> To: "Off-Topic Texas Cavers" <o...@texascavers.com>, "TexasCavers" <
> texascavers@texascavers.com>, "'Mandy Holt'" <mandy.h...@ers.state.tx.us>,
> "'Jenny Holt'" <jennyh...@anthonytravel.com>, "'bbat...@gmail.com'" <
> bbat...@gmail.com>, "'Steve Ashmore'" <sashm...@sbcglobal.net>, "'Sam
> Ashmore'" <samashm...@sbcglobal.net>, "Sally Dearing" <
> sdear...@townandcountryins.com>, "'Guy Heath'" <hea...@satx.rr.com>,
> "'June Levy'" <kittymr...@aol.com>, "'Janice Vieira'" <janjanj...@aol.com>,
> "'Jim Sherwin'" <jim.sher...@ers.state.tx.us>, "'James E. Wagner'" <
> j_e_wag...@comcast.net>, "'Karen Ashmore'" <ka...@karenashmore.com>,
> "'Debra Batts'" <badba...@sbcglobal.net>, "'r_isaac...@sbcglobal.net'" <
> r_isaac...@sbcglobal.net>
> Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2012, 10:44 AM
>
> I don’t share my good friend’s feelings about rattlesnakes as I like
> and am amazed by all snakes and reptiles in general. Being a city dude I
> took every opportunity to have outdoor adventures and to take my family
> camping. My daughters and I still enjoy it to this day. We still remove
> turtles to the relative safety of our highway rights of way. Too many
> uninformed individuals condemn all snakes due to the lack of public
> education such as that afforded by BCI for bats. If harmful snakes invade
> your immediate territory remove them to a distant similar habitat. I
> consider myself an environmentalist but not so extreme as to place all
> creatures needs above that of man. There is always a way to satisfy both
> goals. While I like to see rattlesnakes protected, they should not be
> placed on the endangered species list unless there is solid evidence that
> they are in danger of becoming extinct. There is already too much
> government intervention in our daily lives. I have never been in favor of
> the Sweetwater Rattlesnake Roundup and other such events even if it did put
> them on the map for tourists. This is money the town could do without. VIVA
> LA RATTLESNAKE!
>
>
>
> Fritz
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> Well, I WILL admit that any rattlesnake who ventures onto MY yard IS
> endangered! We have an understanding. THEY stay in the wild and do NOT
> come in MY territory and I will leave them alone. Otherwise, they will go
> to the great snake heaven in the sky.
>
>
>
> Jackie
>
>
>
> Feds Considering Adding Rattlesnakes to ‘Endangered Species List’ to Deny
> Land
> Rights<http://visiontoamerica.org/9869/feds-considering-adding-rattlesnakes-to-endangered-species-list-to-deny-land-rights/>
> Environmental groups have convinced the federal government to propose
> listing the poisonous eastern diamondback rattlesnake as an endangered
> species in order to protect the reptile from “human persecution.”
> “Survival of these snakes in large part depends on whether people continue
> to persecute them or instead choose to allow these amazing creatures to
> share the land with us,” Bill Matturro, spokesman for Protect All Living
> Species, said in welcoming the government’s decision, announced earlier
> this month. “In the Southeast, we are blessed with a rich natural heritage
> of animals and plants. All of these species—even the rattlesnakes—should be
> allowed to exist.”
> The Fish and Wildlife Service says they are taking comments on listing the
> snake because environmental groups presented “substantial scientific or
> commercial information indicating that listing the eastern diamondback
> rattlesnake may be warranted.”
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Birmingham (Al) Grotto recently hosted a western -themed meeting of the
Southeastern Regional Association of the NSS. I thought you Texas folks might
enjoy seeing our take on the West. Lots of pictures at
:http://www.spelunkologists.com/Sera2012/index.htm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A new study has determined that bats save energy when they
fly by folding in their wings on the
upstroke: <http://news.brown.edu/pressreleases/2012/04/foldflap>
Mark
Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
--- End Message ---
