All
I plan on writing something about this for the caver so I won't drag on. But I
must say that there is plenty of recreational caving going on. I know this
because I issue permits or give directions on a weekly if not daily basis. And
most of these people are young. Just friday I met with two young guys from Ft.
Bliss in El Paso. I sent them to Parks Ranch and Mudgett's and more excited
they could not be. I doubt you will ever see them at a Regional or a Grotto
meeting. Just as everyone that owns a gun is not going to join the NRA. Its
just a fact. I caved for 5 years or so before I ever joined the NSS. What
bothers me more are the new people that DO join the grottos and the Region but
quickly "drop out", yet continue to come to me for permits, directions, etc. If
I didn't actually like ya'll so damn much, I would have probably dropped out
already as opposed to constantly hear how things suck now and how much better
they used to be. But seriously attitudes can do a great deal in retaining young
people and new members. Remember, most of these people have already dealt with
permits, bureaucracy, etc before coming to regional events and meetings. Hell,
they grew up with bureaucracy in ever aspect of their lives! Remember, we never
experienced being able to carry knives and cigarette lighters onto planes. My
point being that a cave permit isn't going to keep someone that is truly
interested in caving away. And sour attitudes won't either. But they will keep
them out of our organizations.
Aaron
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Peerman <gypca...@comcast.net>
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 12:12:10
To: <hrduch...@gmail.com>
Cc: <s...@caver.net>
Subject: Re: [SWR] SWR 50th Anniversary Gathering
Harvey, Ken,
The argument about lack of freedom to do what we want in caves without
restrictions is much the same as arguments with any activity that humans pursue
in an civilized society. Freedom is not free. With freedom comes
responsibility.
There is a tendency to feel that rules are for everyone else. I don't
agree that we shot ourselves in the foot, in regards to the NCPA. We have to
remember that we are part of the group "everyone". I do agree, however, that
one "well placed bureaucrat" can "muck up the works".
The current mess with WNS seems to me to be due to a few misguided
bureaucrats.
At any rate, I don't think it serves the interest of the sport of
caving to decry the end of recreational caving. Caving has changed since many
of us started. We are victims of our own success. I think we should focus on
making sure that there is a place for sport caving as well as research. I
think there is room for everyone.
On May 28, 2012, at 11:13 PM, Harvey DuChene wrote:
Ken and all,
Mostly I agree with you, even though I am an "ist". If there is one place where
I disagree, it's that the problem isn't just the "ists." I alluded to this in
my talk. We used to be able to go caving just for the hell of it. No permits,
no paper work, no restrictions. Now we have to get permission to do damn near
everything. The National Cave Protection Act is being used by some in your (and
my) government to protect caves. Trouble is, the caves are being "protected"
from...us. With the NCPA, we have shot ourselves in the foot. Maybe both
feet. It's almost easier to go caving in some other country than it is to do it
in our own, thanks to the NCPA. Because of certain individuals in bureaucratic
positions, we are being shut out of the very caves we asked them to help us
protect. Does anyone else besides me see irony, here?
I sympathize, Ken. Part of the reason I don't go caving much anymore is because
I'm old and decrepit. But part of it is because of the restrictive rules and
regulations imposed by certain people in our government agencies.
There is a caveat, here. Some (perhaps many) of the folks working for the
agencies are very good people who are sympathetic to the view of cavers. But it
only takes one well placed bureaucrat to muck up the works. The NCPA has,
indeed, bitten us in the ass!
Don't blame it all on the "ists." Some (perhaps most) of the blame needs to
placed where it belongs - on the "crats."
Harvey DuChene
From: swr-boun...@caver.net <mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net>
[mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Ken Harrington
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 5:43 PM
To: SWR Cavers
Subject: [SWR] SWR 50th Anniversery Gathering
What a wonderful gathering of the great cave explorers of New Mexico this past
weekend. These were the people who went where no one had gone before and
probed the darkness to see what no one had seen before. They experimented with
new designs for vertical gear to make things lighter and better for reaching
those deep recesses of the mountains. There will never be another gathering
like this.
But it also was also significant in that it marked the end of the era of
recreational caving. Never again will anyone be allowed to go "recreational
caving" in Fort Stanton because it would be a "fun" thing to do. Nothing has
brought this clearer to me than the BLM bunkhouse; where the walls are covered
with the accomplishments of the "ists" who have taken over Fort Stanton Cave
and caving in general. Mr. Fleming told me a while ago that "he no longer goes
caving as caving isn't fun any more". At the time I didn't understand him, but
now I do. If all caving is being done to further research of the "ists", then
caving is a dying activity. Young people are not going to join us and go
caving just to collect soil samples or watch a chosen few get to do all the
exploration of new places. Preservation of the caves is a waste of time if
there is not going to be any one in the future to appreciate the caves for what
there are, and the natural grandness of them.
The 50th was a wonderful event and congratulations to all who made it a
success. I had a great time but left with a heavy heart as I realized that
caving as I knew it is a dead art form.
Ken
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - It's about dancing in the
rain. <http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/emoticons/smile_regular.gif>
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Steve Peerman
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from
the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
attributed to Mark Twain, but no record exists of his having written this.
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