texascavers Digest 8 Dec 2011 15:46:04 -0000 Issue 1450

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 8 Dec 2011 15:46:04 -0000 Issue 1450

Topics (messages 19158 through 19168):

Mesa de Anguila Sinkhole Coords
        19158 by: Herman Miller
        19160 by: Herman Miller

Re: Don Broussard
        19159 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net

Britain�s scariest cave
        19161 by: Lee H. Skinner

Re: Britain's scariest cave
        19162 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com

Need a new harness, any suggestions.
        19163 by: Ryan Monjaras
        19164 by: Herman Miller
        19165 by: Fofo
        19166 by: Geary Schindel
        19167 by: Ed Goff

December 3rd - Longhorn Report
        19168 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com

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--- Begin Message ---

If anyone has coordinates handy for the sinkhole on Mesa de Anguila could
you please respond off lost.  It's time sensitive or I wouldn't be spamming
the mailing list.

Herman Miller
her...@cavechat.org

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--- Begin Message ---

Information recieved Ty all

On Wednesday, December 7, 2011, Herman Miller <her...@cavechat.org> wrote:
> If anyone has coordinates handy for the sinkhole on Mesa de Anguila could
you please respond off lost.  It's time sensitive or I wouldn't be spamming
the mailing list.
>
> Herman Miller
> her...@cavechat.org

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message --- Madeira is Portygee. Hope he brings some good manchego.


Dec 7, 2011 09:06:01 AM, a...@gluesenkamp.com wrote:

I called Don this morning and he is now aware of the problem.  He said he'd bring me some Serrano ham, olives, and Madiera when he gets home.... Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com --- On Wed, 12/7/11, Jim Kennedy wrote: From: Jim Kennedy Subject: [Texascavers] Don Broussard To: "CaveTex" Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 8:57 AM If anybody gets the following message IGNORE IT.  It is SPAM!  Don’s computer was obviously attacked by a virus and is sending out bogus emails to people in his contact list.  Someone on TAG-Net got hit with the same thing a few months back.   -- Crash     From: Don Broussard [mailto:don.brouss...@att.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 8:23 AM To: don.brouss...@att.net Subject: My trip to spain   Hope you get this on time,sorry I didn't inform you about my trip in Spain for a program, I'm presently in Madrid and am having some difficulties here because i misplaced my wallet on my way to the hotel where my money and other valuable things were kept.I want  you to assist me with a loan of ($2,300) to sort-out my hotel bills and  to get myself back home. I have spoken to the embassy here but they are not responding to the matter effectively,I will appreciate whatever you can afford to assist me with,I'll Refund the money back to you as soon as i return, let me know if you can be of any help. I don't have a phone where i can be reached. Please let me know immediately.           Regards, Don Broussard

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Good photo:

http://tinyurl.com/7yz3y6c

I also chuckled when reading the comments. Although I don't believe it was photoshopped, perhaps the two big rock slabs making the mouth might have been placed intentionally to increase the effect.

Lee Skinner

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

That is really, really cool, Lee!

It would make an excellent Halloween photo.


Thanks for posting it!


Mark




-----Original Message-----
From: Lee H. Skinner [mailto:skin...@thuntek.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 10:32 AM
To: nmcaver list; texascavers list; Cave Diggers
Subject: [Texascavers] Britain's scariest cave

Good photo:

http://tinyurl.com/7yz3y6c

I also chuckled when reading the comments.  Although I don't believe it 
was photoshopped, perhaps the two big rock slabs making the mouth might 
have been placed intentionally to increase the effect.

Lee Skinner

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--- Begin Message ---

Looking to get a new caving harness to replace my rock climbing one. What is 
best, a GGG seat harness, CMI Cave Master, PMI Viper Harness, Singing Rock 
Harness, Petzl Super Avanti or Petzl Fractio.

"Semper Exploro" Ryan MonjarasMaverick GrottoCowtown GrottoDFW GrottoUT 
GrottoBexar Grotto(832)754-5778                                           

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

I have the PMI Pit Viper and for a no nonsense harness it has worked great
for me, its lightweight and uncomplicated.  I have heard some people
complain about the lack of padding though it has never been an issue for me

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Ryan Monjaras <trog...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>  Looking to get a new caving harness to replace my rock climbing one.
> What is best, a GGG seat harness, CMI Cave Master, PMI Viper Harness,
> Singing Rock Harness, Petzl Super Avanti or Petzl Fractio.
>
> *
> "Semper Exploro"
> Ryan Monjaras*
> *Maverick Grotto*
> *Cowtown Grotto*
> *DFW Grotto*
> *UT Grotto*
> *Bexar Grotto*
> *(832)754-5778*
>

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message --- The CMI Cave Master, PMI Viper, GGG and Petzl Avanti seem to be variations on the same theme. Maybe the routing of the straps makes for different comfort levels between them, but of these I've only used the GGG and Avanti. They were both good harnesses.

I've been using the Fractio for years and I find it pretty comfortable, once you adjust it to your body.

     - Fofo

Herman Miller wrote, on 7/12/11 18:29 :

I have the PMI Pit Viper and for a no nonsense harness it has worked
great for me, its lightweight and uncomplicated.  I have heard some
people complain about the lack of padding though it has never been an
issue for me

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Ryan Monjaras <trog...@hotmail.com
<mailto:trog...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

    Looking to get a new caving harness to replace my rock climbing one.
    What is best, a GGG seat harness, CMI Cave Master, PMI Viper
    Harness, Singing Rock Harness, Petzl Super Avanti or Petzl Fractio.

    *
    "Semper Exploro"
    Ryan Monjaras*
    *Maverick Grotto*
    *Cowtown Grotto*
    *DFW Grotto*
    *UT Grotto*
    *Bexar Grotto*
    *(832)754-5778 <tel:%28832%29754-5778>*

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Ryan,

Here are some general thoughts.  There are a lot of nuances to harnesses than 
can't be explained in a simple email. Find someone that knows a lot about 
harnesses and discuss the issue with them and then try some on.

The best harness is a redundant harness that fits your body type and is 
suitable for the type of work you expect to do.  Most rock climbing harnesses 
are not optimized for vertical caving as they have a lot of play in the front 
attachment point.  Having a snug fit with a relatively low point of attachment 
seems to work well with most vertical caving rappelling and ascending systems.  
You need enough gear loops to attach your stuff but not hang up when you're 
caving.

I will not use a caving harness with bar tack stitching -  while it is strong 
when new and relatively cheap to sew, bar tacks are a major wear point and the 
only stitching joint I've actually seen fail under caving conditions (under 
body weight loading).  Bar tacks are very common on climbing harnesses and some 
caving harnesses.  Rock climbing harnesses do not generally receive the wear 
and abuse that a caving harness does and bar tacks on these harnesses are a 
little more acceptable. Remember, the amount of thread that goes into a harness 
wouldn't make a good shoe string.  The webbing joints need to be as strong as 
the webbing which requires a good pattern, enough stitches with the proper 
thread, correct needle type, etc.  The joints on the harness get a lot of wear 
and can weaken without showing a lot of wear on the webbing.  This is why you 
need to inspect your stitching before and after each use and on both sides of 
the harness.  The thread should pull down into the webbing so you can't feel it 
when you rub your fingers across the webbing.  That is why dense webbings such 
as seat belt webbing makes a poor choice for harness material. The thread 
should have the same height or profile as the webbing. If it sticks up, it is 
prone to abrasion and if it is pulled too tight, it collects dirt and mud and 
is also prone to wear.  The stitching needs to be strong enough when it is new 
and when it is worn.

The attachment point for the harness is a personal issue and somewhat dependent 
upon what ascending and descending systems you most commonly use.  The 
attachment point should be redundant and allow for the proper orientation of 
your carabiner or rapid link to optimize use of your rappel device without 
chaining together biners.

The harness should be comfortable and also support you without fear of flipping 
upside down when hanging from the attachment point.

I'm sure others can add more to this discussion.

Geary

From: Ryan Monjaras [mailto:trog...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 5:29 PM
To: texas cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Need a new harness, any suggestions.

Looking to get a new caving harness to replace my rock climbing one. What is 
best, a GGG seat harness, CMI Cave Master, PMI Viper Harness, Singing Rock 
Harness, Petzl Super Avanti or Petzl Fractio.
"Semper Exploro"
Ryan Monjaras
Maverick Grotto
Cowtown Grotto
DFW Grotto
UT Grotto
Bexar Grotto
(832)754-5778

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Ryan,

My favorite of all the harnesses I've used is the MTDE Amazonia. It has a very 
low attachment point, which is important for a frog system. It's from Spain and 
can be hard to find. I think I ordered my last one from starlessriver.com, a UK 
retailer. I haven't checked lately to see if any US shops are carrying it now. 
All the Petzls I've worn had high attachment points and didn't work well for 
me. The GGG Caver harness is pretty good. 

Ed

On Dec 7, 2011, at 5:29 PM, Ryan Monjaras <trog...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Looking to get a new caving harness to replace my rock climbing one. What is 
> best, a GGG seat harness, CMI Cave Master, PMI Viper Harness, Singing Rock 
> Harness, Petzl Super Avanti or Petzl Fractio.
> 
> "Semper Exploro" 
> Ryan Monjaras
> Maverick Grotto
> Cowtown Grotto
> DFW Grotto
> UT Grotto
> Bexar Grotto
> (832)754-5778

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Hey, y’all.

 

Before my feeble memory forgets and the weekend gets here, I just thought I’d 
post a report from what we accomplished this past weekend at the Longhorn 
Caverns SP Project:

 

 

Participants:

 

Alan Downey – Project 1

David Franks – Project 1

Kyle Leonard – Project 2

Scott Grimes – Project 2

Nicole Yzaguirre – Project 2

Rachel Saker – Project 2

Joshua Smith – Project 2

Valerie Bowen – Project 2

Leslie Bell – Project 1

Christopher Francke – Project 1

Gerald Geletzke – Project 1

Jerome ? – Project 2

Maya Liu – Project 2

Rahul Bhandari – Project 2

Mark Alman – Project 2

 

Total volunteer hours: 182 hours, including 92 hours drive time.

 

 

 

Project One: The Search for New Passage

 

 

Lumbago Alley Area Dig Team Report from Christopher E. Francke:

 

At first inspection, the dig passage looked about 25+ feet long, with rocky 
sediment, and filled the 2.5 foot high passage to about 2 feet. Basically a 6 
inch gap, from sediment layer to ceiling.

 

We, first cleared the outside entrance of the passage, in order to level the 
area so a digger's body would not be at a down sloping angle while digging.

 

The next few hours, all diggers removed the sediment, rocks and debris.

At the conclusion of the dig, the passage was opened to about 16 feet, where 
there was about 2 feet long of "tubular" passage remaining, before the passage 
opens to a "room" about 4+ feet wider, the ceiling raising to about 3+. This 
"room" had a depth, from the end point of the dig, about 6 feet, and appeared 
to veer to the right of the passage.

 

It is apparent that the floor sediment of the room begins to slope near the 
walls and water is settled in those areas. It may be likely that the passage 
will become more watery at this point. There was no water settling in the 
passage during the dig, although if one dug deep enough, the sediment became 
more wet and muddy and less rocky.

 

I'm excited to go back, knowing that we are about 2ft (say 1hr) away from 
getting in to the little "room" ahead.

 

Thank you, Mark for the opportunity to help the folks at Longhorn Caverns.

 

 

 

 

Project Two: Lovers Lane Trail and Drain Rebuilding

 

 

Team Report from Mark Alman

 

 

Let me first compliment the Project 2 folks, made up mainly of young cavers 
from the A.S.S. (Aggie Grotto) as consistently being one of the hardest working 
and most pleasant to be around group of cavers I have ever encountered.

 

We got a LOT done this past weekend!

 

Using fill material removed from the heavily silted and compacted floor near 
the dam below the Pigs Trough area of Lovers Lane, we have managed to replace 
all of the material that was washed out during heavy flooding that exposed the 
large drainage pipe.

 

This area is now filled back in and all sign of the drainage pipe has been 
eliminated. Next project weekend, we will begin hauling in gravel and rock to 
give the area a more “natural” appearance and, hopefully, minimize erosion 
during the next big rain.

 

The trail there is also now very smooth and has been taken down to the original 
trail and stone. Much easier to walk, now!

 

After a short and enjoyable lunch in the LCSP cafeteria (yeah, we really rough 
it) we tackled removing anywhere from 4 to 8 inches of the silted in and dried 
material that covered the original trail just down from the drainage pipe area. 
The “youngsters” managed to remove a section 2 to 3 feet wide and approximately 
12 to 15 feet long of compacted mud and top soil that revealed the original 
trail through this area.

 

A very efficient bucket brigade system moved several large buckets of material 
that were deposited just behind a stone wall ~50’ away to help reinforce it 
against future flooding. 

 

Their amazing work increased the head room through this area immensely, making 
it easier for visitors to pass through without bashing their heads. 

 

We still have ~12 to 15’ of trail to complete before exposing the original 
trail. And then, on to a plethora of other Lovers Lane projects.

 

We finished up this project around 3 PM and Gerry escorted 11 of the crew on a 
through trip to the Crownover exit.

 

Two of the Aggie cavers ran in to Burnet for supplies and, after securing the 
Crownover key from LCSP staff, I met the mud-encrusted intrepid travelers 
around 5:30 at the LC Back door and transported them all back to camp in the 
back of my truck. 

 

During their trek, a nice nap was enjoyed by yours truly near the Crownover 
gate.

 

After cleaning up, some stayed in camp, while 8 of us went in to Marble Falls 
for a delightful dinner and the highly recommended Peanut Butter Pie at the 
always satisfying Bluebonnet Café.

 

Alan, Rahul, Maya, Christopher, and Leslie said their goodbyes and headed home 
after dining, while Gerry, Josh, and I headed back to LCSP.

 

After seeking shelter from the cold and rain on the second floor of the 
Observation Tower, hilarity and banter and repartee ensued before heading to 
bed around 11 and Gerry heading back to Waco.

 

A VERY chilly cold front and rain blew in around 2 AM Sunday and all headed 
home rather quickly after getting up Sunday.

 

 

 

All in all, an extremely fun and productive project weekend! 

 

January status is unknown at this point, due to availability of project leaders 
and prior commitments. Stay tuned!

 

If y’all are ever interested in helping out with this ongoing project, please 
do so. We guarantee a fun and enjoyable weekend with a lot of caving, service 
to the TPWD, and a ton of good ol’ caver camaraderie!

 

Look for more info on CaveTex and the TSA calendar and a HUGE article on 
various Longhorn shenanigans in the next TEXAS CAVER.

 

 

Thanks to all of the folks who have helped out this year on the Longhorn 
project, especially Gerry Geletzke, and hope to see more of you next year.

 

 

Have a safe and happy Christmas and a fruitful 2012!

 

 

Mark Alman

 

 

 

  

 

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