texascavers Digest 22 Oct 2011 14:52:56 -0000 Issue 1420
Topics (messages 18909 through 18936):
Mexico travel fees
18909 by: Nico Escamilla
OT-Welder for sale
18910 by: goody twoshoes
Frog System and Body Type
18911 by: Mark Minton
sort of eco-tour caving related
18912 by: David
18919 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com
sort of caving culture related
18913 by: David
TCR survey contest results
18914 by: David Ochel
What ever happened to ..... ?
18915 by: David
Re: What ever happened to .... ?
18916 by: David
TAG Fall Cave-In
18917 by: David
18923 by: Mark Minton
18925 by: David
Re: [greater_houston_grotto] the web-page
18918 by: caverarch
BOG starts tonight !
18920 by: David
18924 by: Geary Schindel
Adopt a Bat
18921 by: Mark Minton
18922 by: David
18927 by: Jim Kennedy
18928 by: Mark Minton
18930 by: George Veni
Mitchell System and Body Type
18926 by: Mark Minton
Harness Hang Syndrome
18929 by: Mark Minton
Becky Jones
18931 by: Don Arburn
18932 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com
BOG live report
18933 by: dlocklear01.gmail.com
Re: BOG live report: Ginger Man/Caver connection
18934 by: Frank Binney
a cave related web-link
18935 by: David
18936 by: Mark Alman
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--- Begin Message ---
There's a group of people pushing for the $400 charge to get a vehicle
permit to be waived in an effort to promote road tourism in Nuevo Leon..
here's the
link<http://monterrey.milenio.com/cdb/doc/noticias2011/64bc7397c0c9b2dbd7ee42d7da54c8fe>the
news article for those of you who know spanish.
Nico
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have this welder still for sale. $1,200
Miller Blue Star 145 Stick welder/generator
-No hour meter-Used for 2 fence jobs-2 years old, excellent condition
-Kohler motor - pull start
-1 240v outlet
-4 120v outlets
Includes:
-25ft cable leads w/holder and ground clamp
Call: 512-584-3303
-Lydia
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a very good article about the frog ascending system
in the current issue (no. 222) of Descent, the British caving
magazine. <http://www.wildplaces.co.uk/index.html> It discusses the
inherent efficiencies of using the frog system based on different
body types. As many have suspected, people that are barrel chested
and/or have relatively low waist to fingertip length are at a
disadvantage when using the frog, even if their technique is
good. Essentially the same article is available at
<http://www.johncharleswoods.net/pages/cavetech.htm> under
"Typecasting the vertical caver Part I" as well as in Nylon Highway
no .53 (2008) <http://www.caves.org/section/vertical/nh/53/nh53.html>.
Mark Minton
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This should be new to most of you since it just officially started a
few months ago.
The link below could be put into several categories, speleo-eco-tours,
professional cavers seeking
work, pay-to-go-wild-caving, etc.
http://cavenow.com/?page_id=578
I hope someday to try one of the speleo-eco-tours. Probably the
only way I would go caving
in South America, Indonesia, or China, or Belize.
David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County
( Arcola, Texas )
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
$119.00 per person for a three hour caving trip?!
Yikes!
I only charge youth groups nothing (but it makes me feel good).
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: David [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 6:46 PM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] sort of eco-tour caving related
This should be new to most of you since it just officially started a
few months ago.
The link below could be put into several categories, speleo-eco-tours,
professional cavers seeking
work, pay-to-go-wild-caving, etc.
http://cavenow.com/?page_id=578
I hope someday to try one of the speleo-eco-tours. Probably the
only way I would go caving
in South America, Indonesia, or China, or Belize.
David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County
( Arcola, Texas )
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--- Begin Message ---
I just wanted to say I had a very enjoyable time at the UT Grotto
meeting last night, and the warm welcome
was appreciated. I highly recommend the Queso con Mambo at Sao
Paulo's, and that
cavers get there early to enjoy the happy hour.
http://www.saopaulos.net/apertivos.html
That was my 1st visit to Sao Paulos and I hope to do it again someday.
It is interesting to visit different grottos. Each grotto does
things differently. Having
a place like Sao Paulo's within walking distance of your grotto
meeting beforehand is a huge
advantage to get the meeting into full gear quickly.
By the way, the UT Grotto opens their meeting with the announcement, "Welcome to
the UT Grotto - the grotto that caves." Then their guest speaker
showed a slide show about
trains in Peru.
David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County
( Arcola, Texas )
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congratulations to the winner's of this year's TSS survey contest at
TCR, and thanks everybody for entering!
The winners were:
1. Ellie Watson and Joe Shaertl (.54 m loop closure error)
2. Heather Levy and Seth Spoelman (.67 m)
3. Monica Ponce and Steve Gutting (.71 m)
Thanks to the Texas Speleological Survey for sponsoring the instruments
and lights, to Gonzo Guano Gear for sponsoring the survey pouches, and
to Miller Blueprint for selling us the instruments at cost! And to
Andrea for helping me set up the contest, and to Dale for helping with
evaluating the results!
Cheers,
David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since it is quite out there in CaveTexLand, I thought I would try
something nostalgic.
Who wants to go first ?
What ever happened to ...... Doug Allen ?
What ever happened to .... Joel King ?
etc.
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One more try,
Whatever happened to John Spence .... ?
Whatever happened to Spencer Woods ...?
Whatever happened to Pam Oskowski ( ? ) Woods ?
Whatever happened to Troy Shelton ....?
nobody else got anything ?
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can anybody sum up what all most of us missed at the TAG Fall Cave-In ?
This event apparently puts an emphasis on a large bonfire.
Click on below and wait a minute or so.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n81/amysrabbitranch/Lighting-Animation.gif
I know Texas cavers did that a few times, but not like that or what I have seen
done at other caving events on the east coast.
I strongly feel cavers should be environmentally conscious and drive
fuel-efficient
cars, etc. So, a giant bonfire does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling.
Here are some photos from the event held 2 or 3 weeks ago, and
attended by something like
a 1,000 cavers.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1969948098832.86587.1546875448&type=1&l=24e501502d
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=186445564764969&set=o.199232620111084&type=1&theater
Note the role that Facebook is playing in documenting caving activity
and sharing it. Without Facebook,
we would have almost no knowledge that the event even took place.
David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:26 AM 10/21/2011, David wrote:
Can anybody sum up what all most of us missed at the TAG Fall Cave-In ?
-----snip----
Note the role that Facebook is playing in documenting caving activity
and sharing it. Without Facebook,
we would have almost no knowledge that the event even took place.
That is patently absurd! People know about TAG Fall Cave-In
from a variety of sources, including email list serves (like
texascavers), web sites (like <http://tagfallcavein.org/>, and
word-of-mouth. Facebook is not the be-all and end-all of caving,
except for people like David who don't actually go caving! As Roger
Moore said,
Now, David, how can I resist saying that most of the caving activity
in Texas is going on IN CAVES?
Mark Minton
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am only implying that Facebook is being overlooked by many as a
valuable source,
and tool.
I also only meant that cavers outside the loop of things or that don't
live on the east coast, would not
have known about what took place had people not posted their
experience on Facebook - especially
new and young cavers.
I was not trying to imply that Facebook is the best way to serve the
caving community. It obviously
does not work at all for the old-timers.
There is a lot of caving related stuff going on on Facebook that can't
be talked about publicly.
Call it secret caving if you want, but there is more to it than that.
Even though these virtual friendships
are different from traditional friendships, there is a positive impact
going on that is related to caving.
I have seen some very good international interaction on Google Plus
that otherwise would have
never taken place.
I would not be surprised to learn that dozens of Texas cavers were
unaware that the TAG Fall Cave-In
just occurred or what took place. The post was mainly meant for
new cavers in Texas who have
never heard of the TAG Fall Cave-in, and I should have noted that at
the top of the post.
I could spend more time trying to make my post more politically
correct, but I actually do other important things
in life besides live on the web. I really do have a life, and I
don't need to get one. Work has been just way too
slow.
****Still, nobody answered the main question of the post. What
happened there ? Why would Texas Cavers want
to mark it on their calendar for next year ? Did caving go on
during this festival ? etc, etc.*****
On a semi-related note ( but in NO way directed at Mr. Minton ),
Recently, there has been some negative activity in the caving
community. One grotto banned me from their Facebook
page. Another banned me very rudely from their list-serve. And
there has been some vague public discussion
encouraging me to leave CaveTex. The e-mails I get privately are
even more negative, if not down right hateful.
Some are just sarcastic humor, so I can't get too worked up.
Many of you publicly supported me, so there is no reason to go into that again.
Few cavers would have persevered under such scrutiny. But I have
been married for 11 years, so I am used to being
tar-and-feathered. I know quite a few cavers that left the
organized caving community because of this kind of stuff,
and that they are still actively but very quietly caving. I am
not ready to throw in the towel just yet.
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
If you had attended a meeting recently you would know that GHG's web site had
been stranded in cyberspace through the fault of no-one in the grotto, and that
it is soon to be renovated.
But this is the line in your following e-mail that I had to comment upon:
Most of the caving
activity in Texas
is going on on Facebook.
Now, David, how can I resist saying that most of the caving activity in Texas
is going on IN CAVES? The only people who care about cutting edge caving, new
discoveries, and the global caving community, but are really somewhat dependent
on the gratifications of virtual caving are physically damaged cavers like me.
And I enthusiastically use Facebook for those purposes.
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: David <[email protected]>
To: greater_houston_grotto <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, Oct 20, 2011 8:48 pm
Subject: [greater_houston_grotto] the web-page
Please take these comments as comments and not as criticism.
This is NOT something to be addressed this week, but maybe someday.
I just took a look a the web page for the first time in over 2 years.
TSA is written "Texas Speleological Society" in 2 places on the
link for new cavers.
Also the Texas Speleological Survey ( TSS ) is another important organization
that is sort of its own entity.
http://www.utexas.edu/tmm/sponsored_sites/tss/tsswho.htm
They have bi-monthy work meetings to organize maps and scan stuff.
I have been wanting to get involved in that for years, but just couldn't
make it.
Also,
on the main 1st sentence introducing the grotto, there seems to be
word left off as in "Just ask us,"
Also,
One link mentions several commercial caves, but doesn't mention the
one owned by our very own good friend and grotto ambassador to the
American Cave Owner's Association. That being Thomas Summer's, "Cave
Without a Name." It is an incredible privilege to be in a grotto that has
not only a real cave owner, but one who actively supports the grotto and
owns one of the most awesome caves in the U.S. Most of you haven't
been around long enough to realize how much Tom has done for GHG.
The caving vendor list does not mention
http://www.onrope1.com/store/index.php?p=home
or
http://www.karstsports.com/
In the section where you have Bat Sanctuary, I would instead put
http://www.texascaves.org/
And have a separate section for bats, as there are dozens of bat
related organizations and sites to visit, including our very own
Waugh Bridge.
Every grotto does things differently,
most of the other grottos eat at the same exact place before the meeting
and have so for many years. There isn't a mention on the web-page about
a social gathering outside of the meeting. I really don't know
where the other
grottos find time to be so social. The U.T. Grotto spends about 6
hours a month
just drinking together, and talking about whatever the heck they want to.
The web-page need more photos and some that when you click on them, can go
to full screen. Members of GHG have taken 1,000's of caving photos. I have
some buried in a storage box, taken with an Instamatic film camera, so they are
not worth showing. Eddie Yonemoto should have some photos. I have offered
my photo of the cave in Cockrell Butterfly center numerous times, but each time
I get that look, where people roll their eyes.
I don't know why there is so much resistance to Facebook, but many of the other
grottos in Texas have a successful Facebook page. There is no mention on the
web-site about anything Facebook related. Most of the caving
activity in Texas
is going on on Facebook.
Also, YouTube has an extensive vault of thousands of informative caving videos.
That could be mentioned to a newbie looking for info.
The drab green color of the web-pages is something that could be addressed
someday.
I see the club has a formal requirement to be 16 years of age. I
don't remember that
getting passed. I can name 4 GHG'rs that were under 16, that own
caving records,
and won TSA contest.
I can't tell you when GHG decided it was necessary to have a membership form or
require college age members or those old enough to go to war, to get
their mommies
written permission to join GHG. If I was 20, and saw that I would
tell GHG to go
*$%*@&^$.
David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County
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--- Begin Message ---
I have been a member of the NSS for 24 years, so I feel it is my duty
to encourage all
of you to drop what you are doing this weekend and come to the NSS
Board of Governor's
fall festivities.
In less than 11 hours, cavers will start socializing at the Gingerman
Pub ( in the Village, which
is a shopping district a few blocks west of the Rice University campus )
The NSS came all the way to Texas to make an effort to meet with its
members face-to-face
and to give a chance for non-member cavers to learn about how the
important the NSS is
and what it takes to make things happen on the national caving scene.
These meetings will be on the Rice University Campus. A nice group
photo could be taken of the
attendees in the prestigious courtyard there. So you want to be in
that photo.
The Saturday night party will give you a chance to potentially meet
cavers you have never heard
of, and a chance to make new caving friends. I have heard rumors of
cavers coming out of the
woodwork for this event.
Address for the party is:
2306 Butler Drive
Friendswood, 77546
I invite you all to camp in my back yard or sleep on my floor, but I
live quite a
ways out of the way from the festivities. Hop on a bus, get on
Craigslist and find a ride, or whatever it takes to
get here, and I will pick you up and drop you off at the party.
This is an event, that may not take place again in southeast Texas for
another 10 years or more.
The last one here was 1986, and it made a significant impact on caving
in east Texas.
The only way to reach me this weekend will be via e-mail at
[email protected]
or Facebook.
[ There is a small chance I could give someone a ride to south Dallas
after the party, as
I need to be in Mansfield this weekend, and have postponed that trip
to try to attend the
BOG. ]
David Locklear
President of the virtual Fort Bend County Speleological Society
President of NaturFest Association
NSS # 27639 ( life member )
https://www.facebook.com/groups/128288927251881/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/213300932024864/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well said David, here is a chance to meet the directors and officers of the NSS
and to see how the business of the NSS is conducted (you may all be surprised
to know that the meetings can sometimes be boring - but the parties are quite
good LOL).
Hope to see you in Houston and thanks to all the Texas grottos that helped
organize the BOG meeting.
Geary Schindel
-----Original Message-----
From: David [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 8:07 AM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] BOG starts tonight !
I have been a member of the NSS for 24 years, so I feel it is my duty
to encourage all
of you to drop what you are doing this weekend and come to the NSS
Board of Governor's
fall festivities.
In less than 11 hours, cavers will start socializing at the Gingerman
Pub ( in the Village, which
is a shopping district a few blocks west of the Rice University campus )
The NSS came all the way to Texas to make an effort to meet with its
members face-to-face
and to give a chance for non-member cavers to learn about how the
important the NSS is
and what it takes to make things happen on the national caving scene.
These meetings will be on the Rice University Campus. A nice group
photo could be taken of the
attendees in the prestigious courtyard there. So you want to be in
that photo.
The Saturday night party will give you a chance to potentially meet
cavers you have never heard
of, and a chance to make new caving friends. I have heard rumors of
cavers coming out of the
woodwork for this event.
Address for the party is:
2306 Butler Drive
Friendswood, 77546
I invite you all to camp in my back yard or sleep on my floor, but I
live quite a
ways out of the way from the festivities. Hop on a bus, get on
Craigslist and find a ride, or whatever it takes to
get here, and I will pick you up and drop you off at the party.
This is an event, that may not take place again in southeast Texas for
another 10 years or more.
The last one here was 1986, and it made a significant impact on caving
in east Texas.
The only way to reach me this weekend will be via e-mail at
[email protected]
or Facebook.
[ There is a small chance I could give someone a ride to south Dallas
after the party, as
I need to be in Mansfield this weekend, and have postponed that trip
to try to attend the
BOG. ]
David Locklear
President of the virtual Fort Bend County Speleological Society
President of NaturFest Association
NSS # 27639 ( life member )
https://www.facebook.com/groups/128288927251881/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/213300932024864/
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--- Begin Message ---
The conservation group Defenders of Wildlife is sponsoring a
program for 'adopting' an endangered animal. One of the animals
featured is the
bat:
<https://secure.defenders.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=wagc_bat>.
You don't actually get a bat to take home (fortunately), but your
money goes to further their protection.
Mark Minton
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder if their main goal in bat conservation is to protect
megabats, since the bat in the photo appears
to be a Pteropus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pteropus
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4113/5094493600_18f063c5a2_b.jpg
So when you do adopt a bat from them, are you getting a fruit bat ?
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark, at the risk of posting a Locklear-esque reply, I want to say a
little more about "adopt a bat" programs. Bat Conservation
International started the first "adopt-a-bat" program. It has been
running since about 1995. Originally you got a photo of a bat (several
species from which to choose), information on that species, and a
certificate of adoption. Now you actually get a plush bat toy. We
rotate out a species each year and introduce a new one to keep things
fresh. You can learn more, and adopt a bat of your own, at
http://www.batcon.org/index.php/support-bci/adopt-a-bat.html.
Other organizations quickly jumped on the bat bandwagon. The first were
Carlsbad Caverns National Park (http://www.ccgma.org/Adopt.htm) and Bat
World Sanctuary (http://www.batworld.org/adopt-a-bat-now/). Others
(besides Defenders for Wildlife, as you mentioned) include:
World Animal Foundation
http://worldanimalfoundation.homestead.com/AdoptABat.html
World Wildlife Fund
http://www.worldwildlife.org/gift-center/gifts/Species-Adoptions/Vampire
-Bat.aspx?gid=54
Lava Beds National Monument
http://www.nps.gov/labe/supportyourpark/adopt-a-bat.htm
Yellowstone National Park
https://secure3.convio.net/ypf/site/Ecommerce?store_id=1241&JServSession
Idr004=zb73t8fla2.app331a
Lubee Bat Conservancy
https://www.batconservancy.org/68.php
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
http://support.nckri.org/adoptabat
and (dare I say it?)
Organization for Bat Conservation
http://store.batconservation.org/sponsorabat.aspx
There may be more, but you get the idea. The market is getting
saturated with "adopt a bat" programs. Of course, if anyone would like
to "adopt" a bat or give one as a gift, we hope they will go to BCI
first!
-- Jim Kennedy
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Minton [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 8:39 AM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] Adopt a Bat
The conservation group Defenders of Wildlife is sponsoring a program for
'adopting' an endangered animal. One of the animals featured is the
bat:
<https://secure.defenders.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=wagc_bat>.
You don't actually get a bat to take home (fortunately), but your money
goes to further their protection.
Mark Minton
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you look at that web page
<https://secure.defenders.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=wagc_bat>,
you'll see that they support all types of bats. They mention 9
endangered bat species in North America (none of which are megabats)
and specifically comment on little brown bats. The choice of photo
was not meant to imply which bats are being served.
Mark
At 09:53 AM 10/21/2011, David wrote:
I wonder if their main goal in bat conservation is to protect
megabats, since the bat in the photo appears
to be a Pteropus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pteropus
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4113/5094493600_18f063c5a2_b.jpg
So when you do adopt a bat from them, are you getting a fruit bat ?
David Locklear
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For those interested or curious, NCKRI's Adopt-A-Bat program is designed to
support maintenance and research of NCKRI's bat roost. We hope those results
will outweigh the dollar value of the contributions in their value toward
understanding bat ecology and in bat protection and management. NCKRI
Headquarters is the world's first building that includes a bat roost as part
of its design.
This year was the first when the roost was available for bats since
construction was completed. We've seen a speck of guano here and there, but
no occupants so far. We've also recently installed infrared cameras to watch
for bats that might fly to our roost to check it out and eventually
(hopefully) move in.
By bat standards, the roost is luxurious and in an optimal location, but the
lack of bats so far is not a surprise. BCI has found that it usually takes
2-5 years for bats to discover and move into a new roost. Additionally, the
record drought in New Mexico this year has resulted in low populations of
moths and other critters bats like to eat, so bat populations here have been
low as bats are staying in areas where hunting is better.
As a NCKRI PR guy, I want bats in the roost, I want them now, and I want
them to form a maternity colony. As a NCKRI science guy, I don't care which
bats move in, when they move in, or even if they move in. No matter what
happens, contributions to NCKRI's Adopt-A-Bat program support good science
to better understand bats and their roosting preferences.
George
***************************
George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 413-383-2276
[email protected]
www.nckri.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Kennedy [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 09:16
To: Mark Minton; [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Adopt a Bat
Mark, at the risk of posting a Locklear-esque reply, I want to say a
little more about "adopt a bat" programs. Bat Conservation
International started the first "adopt-a-bat" program. It has been
running since about 1995. Originally you got a photo of a bat (several
species from which to choose), information on that species, and a
certificate of adoption. Now you actually get a plush bat toy. We
rotate out a species each year and introduce a new one to keep things
fresh. You can learn more, and adopt a bat of your own, at
http://www.batcon.org/index.php/support-bci/adopt-a-bat.html.
Other organizations quickly jumped on the bat bandwagon. The first were
Carlsbad Caverns National Park (http://www.ccgma.org/Adopt.htm) and Bat
World Sanctuary (http://www.batworld.org/adopt-a-bat-now/). Others
(besides Defenders for Wildlife, as you mentioned) include:
World Animal Foundation
http://worldanimalfoundation.homestead.com/AdoptABat.html
World Wildlife Fund
http://www.worldwildlife.org/gift-center/gifts/Species-Adoptions/Vampire
-Bat.aspx?gid=54
Lava Beds National Monument
http://www.nps.gov/labe/supportyourpark/adopt-a-bat.htm
Yellowstone National Park
https://secure3.convio.net/ypf/site/Ecommerce?store_id=1241&JServSession
Idr004=zb73t8fla2.app331a
Lubee Bat Conservancy
https://www.batconservancy.org/68.php
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
http://support.nckri.org/adoptabat
and (dare I say it?)
Organization for Bat Conservation
http://store.batconservation.org/sponsorabat.aspx
There may be more, but you get the idea. The market is getting
saturated with "adopt a bat" programs. Of course, if anyone would like
to "adopt" a bat or give one as a gift, we hope they will go to BCI
first!
-- Jim Kennedy
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Minton [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 8:39 AM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] Adopt a Bat
The conservation group Defenders of Wildlife is sponsoring a program for
'adopting' an endangered animal. One of the animals featured is the
bat:
<https://secure.defenders.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=wagc_bat>.
You don't actually get a bat to take home (fortunately), but your money
goes to further their protection.
Mark Minton
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--- Begin Message ---
As a follow-up to my post about the frog system and body
type, there is a similar article in the current Nylon Highway
assessing the Mitchell
system: <http://www.caves.org/section/vertical/nh/56/nh56.html>.
There is a very good article about the frog ascending
system in the current issue (no. 222) of Descent, the British
caving magazine. <http://www.wildplaces.co.uk/index.html> It
discusses the inherent efficiencies of using the frog system based
on different body types. As many have suspected, people that are
barrel chested and/or have relatively low waist to fingertip length
are at a disadvantage when using the frog, even if their technique
is good. Essentially the same article is available at
<http://www.johncharleswoods.net/pages/cavetech.htm> under
"Typecasting the vertical caver Part I" as well as in Nylon Highway
no .53 (2008) <http://www.caves.org/section/vertical/nh/53/nh53.html>.
Mark Minton
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another article of interest in the current Nylon Highway is
a very current review of harness hang syndrome or suspension trauma,
reprinted from Wilderness & Environmental Medicine. This is
something all vertical cavers should be aware of. It's a free
download from <http://www.caves.org/section/vertical/nh/56/nh56.html>.
Mark Minton
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please contact me off list.
Sent cellularly.
-Don
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Becky, can you give me a shout, as well?
Thanks,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Arburn [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 12:37 PM
To: Texas Cavers List
Subject: [Texascavers] Becky Jones
Please contact me off list.
Sent cellularly.
-Don
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--- Begin Message ---
The BOG Howdy Party is in full gear. 20 cavers from out-of-state, 10 Texas
cavers and about 6 GHG'ers and a few others.
It is in an outdoor pub.
Tom Summers is chillin. Quite a few are tasting an ale.
Cavers are socializing.
I am texting.
David Locklear
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I remember correctly the Howdy Party is at The Ginger Man Pub, which has
a "15 degrees of separation" connection to Texas caving.
That establishment's founder, Bob Precious, named it after J.P. Donleavy¹s
best-selling 1952 novel The Ginger Man.
When I was working overseas in the early 1980s, I dated J.P. Donleavy's
daughter Karen and spent a Christmas in Ireland with her and her dad at the
Donleavy estate. Around that time Karen accompanied me on a trip back to
Texas to attend a TCR near New Braunfels. She was most impressed with Texas
cavers and remarked to me that some of the cavers she met reminded her of
characters in her daddy's novels. (You'll have to read one of those novels
to see if Karen's comment was a compliment, an indictment, or ??).
-Frank Binney
On 10/21/11 7:59 PM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> The BOG Howdy Party is in full gear. 20 cavers from out-of-state, 10 Texas
> cavers and about 6 GHG'ers and a few others.
>
> It is in an outdoor pub.
>
> Tom Summers is chillin. Quite a few are tasting an ale.
>
> Cavers are socializing.
>
> I am texting.
>
> David Locklear
> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Below is a link to a PDF which should be listed on any grotto's
web-page under a section
for new cavers.
http://www.caves.org/brochure/NSS%20Guide%20Color%20809.pdf
Kudos to all the people that did the work on that.
This booklet should be printed out and put in the new attendees
packets at grotto meetings,
or put on a table with freebie brochures about caving. Your grotto
does that. Right ?
Or the link should be in a welcome e-mail to new members that have
just joined your grotto.
For example, the e-mail [ or Facebook message ] could read "Hey, Jane
( or Joe ), welcome to the grotto,
here is some cool info on caves for you to read. Let's go caving soon ! "
When I attended my first grotto meeting, the grotto there did not have
such things. But they
did have a paper tri-fold hand-out that had some basic info about the NSS.
I don't agree with the initial wording in the Forword that says we
"explore cave for sport."
I believe it should say "for recreation." And the 2nd line,
describing a "sport caver," seems
odd for such a brochure. I don't know anybody that has ever
considered themselves a
sport caver or labeled someone else as a sport caver. And then it
goes on to say, this
Publication "deals with the sport of caving."
In addition, the wording about quickly dying and starving to death
needs could be described
better. There could be a link in this part to American Caving
Accidents. ( Are those on
PDF yet ? )
And how many of you really cave with a large plastic trash bag inside
of your helmet ? And
what is wrong with a new caver using a hockey helmet, or a kayaking
helmet, etc. on their first
few trips ? I have seen experienced cavers use motorcycle helmets.
[ Helmets are still one
of the most expensive of the caving gear items, so I don't believe a
new caver should be encouraged
to purchase a real caving helmet right away. I think a grotto
should have cheap helmets available
for new cavers on their very first trip. ]
I think the brochure should mention the types of caves for first-time
cavers to avoid. Like alpine caves,
or caves with deep pit entrances or caves with rivers or streams
flowing into them, or caves that require
crawling in running water, or caves with bad air, or free-diving in
caves, glacier caves, or caves with lots
of bats, caves with lots of swimming, sea caves, etc.
The little graphic symbol on the photos in the brochure doesn't do
anything for me.
But I do want to emphasize that I liked the booklet.
David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County, Texas
NSS # 27639
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is indeed an excellent resource IMHO, David, and one I pass out or
encourage folks to download at the various youth group caving talks I give.
The NSS will send you copies for free, in quantities of 50 or less.
Anything more than that they request you make a nominal donation fee to cover
printing and shipping.
You can see a complete listing of their brochures at
http://caves.org/brochure/index.shtml
While you're perusing their fine catalog of caving resources, JOIN THE NSS!!!!
Mark
________________________________
From: David <[email protected]>
To: Cavers Texas <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 6:37 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] a cave related web-link
Below is a link to a PDF which should be listed on any grotto's
web-page under a section
for new cavers.
http://www.caves.org/brochure/NSS%20Guide%20Color%20809.pdf
Kudos to all the people that did the work on that.
This booklet should be printed out and put in the new attendees
packets at grotto meetings,
or put on a table with freebie brochures about caving. Your grotto
does that. Right ?
Or the link should be in a welcome e-mail to new members that have
just joined your grotto.
For example, the e-mail [ or Facebook message ] could read "Hey, Jane
( or Joe ), welcome to the grotto,
here is some cool info on caves for you to read. Let's go caving soon ! "
When I attended my first grotto meeting, the grotto there did not have
such things. But they
did have a paper tri-fold hand-out that had some basic info about the NSS.
I don't agree with the initial wording in the Forword that says we
"explore cave for sport."
I believe it should say "for recreation." And the 2nd line,
describing a "sport caver," seems
odd for such a brochure. I don't know anybody that has ever
considered themselves a
sport caver or labeled someone else as a sport caver. And then it
goes on to say, this
Publication "deals with the sport of caving."
In addition, the wording about quickly dying and starving to death
needs could be described
better. There could be a link in this part to American Caving
Accidents. ( Are those on
PDF yet ? )
And how many of you really cave with a large plastic trash bag inside
of your helmet ? And
what is wrong with a new caver using a hockey helmet, or a kayaking
helmet, etc. on their first
few trips ? I have seen experienced cavers use motorcycle helmets.
[ Helmets are still one
of the most expensive of the caving gear items, so I don't believe a
new caver should be encouraged
to purchase a real caving helmet right away. I think a grotto
should have cheap helmets available
for new cavers on their very first trip. ]
I think the brochure should mention the types of caves for first-time
cavers to avoid. Like alpine caves,
or caves with deep pit entrances or caves with rivers or streams
flowing into them, or caves that require
crawling in running water, or caves with bad air, or free-diving in
caves, glacier caves, or caves with lots
of bats, caves with lots of swimming, sea caves, etc.
The little graphic symbol on the photos in the brochure doesn't do
anything for me.
But I do want to emphasize that I liked the booklet.
David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County, Texas
NSS # 27639
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