texascavers Digest 24 Oct 2011 10:34:19 -0000 Issue 1421
Topics (messages 18937 through 18948):
TCMA Award
18937 by: William H. Russell
Re: a cave related web-link
18938 by: Mark Minton
vaguely BOG related
18939 by: David
18940 by: Mallory Mayeux
18941 by: Speleosteele.aol.com
18942 by: Bill Bentley
18943 by: Jim Kennedy
18944 by: Lyndon Tiu
BOG Recap and Thank You!
18945 by: Clint Ladd
18948 by: Wm Shrewsbury
TCR video by Dorothy Mladenka on YouTube
18946 by: Logan McNatt
Cindy Warton-Heart Attack
18947 by: Leslie Bell
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--- Begin Message ---
Dear All,
I was tongue-tied when it happened, but now i'm overdue to say thank
you to TCMA for my award.
Thinking back on last weekend, mention was made of digging.
Realizing that all TCMA caves in Travis County exist because they
were dug out by cavers brings up the important of digging combined
with karst inventories. Therefore, ALWAYS cave softly and carry a
crowbar. Don't leave home without one -- if it blows, it goes, and a
little persuasion never hurts.
Thanks to all,
william
--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX 78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL: 512-940-8336
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:37 AM 10/22/2011, David wrote:
There could be a link in this part to American Caving
Accidents. ( Are those on PDF yet ? )
American Caving Accidents has been published as a special
issue of the NSS News for the last several years. Those are indeed
available online, as are most issues of the NSS News, through the
Karst Information Portal <http://www.karstportal.org/>. To find ACA,
use Advanced Search and put American Caving Accidents in as a keyword
(not title) search term.
And how many of you really cave with a large plastic trash bag inside
of your helmet ?
It is not recommended that you put _anything_ inside your
helmet, even something soft like a plastic bag. The empty space
inside your helmet is there for a reason - it allows the helmet's
suspension to collapse and absorb the force of an impact. It you
reduce that space, you reduce the effectiveness of your helmet. The
NSS should take that recommendation out. It has been discredited. I
do carry a trash bag for emergency warmth, but I carry it in a
plastic bottle in my pack. It also keeps you a lot cooler if you do
not have a bag in your helmet - I know, because I used to do
that. It blocks the airflow and ventilation in addition to taking up space.
Mark Minton
Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am imposing a 24 hour Facebook de-friendship ( FDF ) on every caver
east of the Brazos River
and south of Huntsville.
I am imposing a 48 hour FDF on all the active cavers in the 3 grottos
of that region.
And a 1 week FDF on the planning committee of the BOG.
And a 3 week FDF on all the old GHG'ers, who did not lift a finger to help.
I am imposing a 6 week FDF on the person who had the idea to serve RAW
corn tortillas with
the fajitas.
And a 2 month FDF on the person whose job it was to delegate items for
the party such as
ice and paper plates, and other food items to complement the fajitas.
And a 3 month FDF on 2 individuals who made my life miserable since April.
And another 3 month added on to that, for whoever made the final call
on the registration
web-site.
And a 6 month FDF to whoever dropped the ball, on getting the last BOG
member to
Intercontinental Airport.
For those not on Facebook, I am filtering you out of my e-mail for 2
times the amount
of time.
I am imposing a sever penalty to Blackberry for all the headaches I
had with my phone
this week. Meaning, I am going to tell everyone I know how much my
Blackberry Style
sucks.
And I wish I could FDF myself. Friday, the transmission went out
on our car. This caused
me to miss 1/3 of the Howdy Party. And the shade-tree mechanic that
I hired, loaned me the
beater from h*ll, that broke down on me on the way to the business
meeting. And after that,
I had to put out a $ 10 problem at work, that made me late and
exhausted upon arrival to the
BOG Party.
And to mother nature delivering her swarm of mosquitoes, I will
dedicate my life to killing
every mosquito that I can that touches me or my family.
I will allow at least 4 particular cavers a fair chance to contest the
above FDF's, or to request
a reduced suspension, only because they did quite a bit of work on the
BOG and have also
on previous occasions, and it would would have been a complete
disaster had they dropped
the ball at the last minute.
David Locklear
much more grumpier than usual
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
I strongly suggest you "de-friend' cavetex for a few weeks, or however long
it takes you to sort yourself out and get in a better place mentally and
emotionally. Seriously, what are you talking about??? Everyone I spoke to
had a terrific time at the BOG Party last night. We got tons of compliments
on the party, the venues provided for the meetings, lunch arrangements, etc.
Sure, there were a couple slight hiccups, but anyone who has ever hosted a
large caver gathering run entirely by volunteers knows that those happen and
I doubt anyone who wasn't directly working on party planning even noticed.
Thank you SO MUCH to all the Texas cavers from all around the state that
showed up, and the grottos/organizations who donated so we could show the
BOG some good old-fashioned Texas hospitality. I will post the details
tomorrow for all who weren't able to make it. I certainly wouldn't want
anyone who wasn't able to attend to think that the BOG was anything close to
a "complete disaster". Far, far from it....
and David? FYI, the BOG Strategic Planning/Initiatives meeting is still
going on, so the "last BOG member to go to the airport" is still sitting in
his meeting. Please attempt get your facts straight before you start
trashing the people who worked hard to put this together.
Mallory Mayeux
GHG Secretary/BOG Planner-person
On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 11:40 AM, David <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am imposing a 24 hour Facebook de-friendship ( FDF ) on every caver
> east of the Brazos River
> and south of Huntsville.
>
> I am imposing a 48 hour FDF on all the active cavers in the 3 grottos
> of that region.
>
> And a 1 week FDF on the planning committee of the BOG.
>
> And a 3 week FDF on all the old GHG'ers, who did not lift a finger to help.
>
> I am imposing a 6 week FDF on the person who had the idea to serve RAW
> corn tortillas with
> the fajitas.
>
> And a 2 month FDF on the person whose job it was to delegate items for
> the party such as
> ice and paper plates, and other food items to complement the fajitas.
>
> And a 3 month FDF on 2 individuals who made my life miserable since April.
>
> And another 3 month added on to that, for whoever made the final call
> on the registration
> web-site.
>
> And a 6 month FDF to whoever dropped the ball, on getting the last BOG
> member to
> Intercontinental Airport.
>
> For those not on Facebook, I am filtering you out of my e-mail for 2
> times the amount
> of time.
>
> I am imposing a sever penalty to Blackberry for all the headaches I
> had with my phone
> this week. Meaning, I am going to tell everyone I know how much my
> Blackberry Style
> sucks.
>
> And I wish I could FDF myself. Friday, the transmission went out
> on our car. This caused
> me to miss 1/3 of the Howdy Party. And the shade-tree mechanic that
> I hired, loaned me the
> beater from h*ll, that broke down on me on the way to the business
> meeting. And after that,
> I had to put out a $ 10 problem at work, that made me late and
> exhausted upon arrival to the
> BOG Party.
>
> And to mother nature delivering her swarm of mosquitoes, I will
> dedicate my life to killing
> every mosquito that I can that touches me or my family.
>
> I will allow at least 4 particular cavers a fair chance to contest the
> above FDF's, or to request
> a reduced suspension, only because they did quite a bit of work on the
> BOG and have also
> on previous occasions, and it would would have been a complete
> disaster had they dropped
> the ball at the last minute.
>
> David Locklear
> much more grumpier than usual
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What she said.
David, I just got home from a wonderful weekend. You know that I responded
to your "vaguely BOG
related" post to Texascavers.com from my Blackberry as I was stopped for
gas on the way home with the short message of "WTF?"
Mallory, Clint, and Roger, PLEASE correct if I'm wrong, but hasn't the
biggest difficulty you have had in hosting the NSS BOG meeting this weekend
been David Locklear? Didn't he cause you constant problems with his weird
offers and lack of commitment, up to and including after the party started
last
night? He did show up last night and contributed some food and helped with
this and that, not that anyone really knew that he would show up or was
counting on him to contribute, but he did, and he was around until this
morning. I'm just in disbelief that he would take away from a job so well
done
with his mean-spirited, bizarre way of seeing things and posting them. I
think he is way off the mark and he has problems he ought to go outside of
caving to address.
Bill Steele
In a message dated 10/23/2011 2:22:51 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
mmay...@gmail.com writes:
David,
I strongly suggest you "de-friend' cavetex for a few weeks, or however
long it takes you to sort yourself out and get in a better place mentally and
emotionally. Seriously, what are you talking about??? Everyone I spoke to
had a terrific time at the BOG Party last night. We got tons of compliments
on the party, the venues provided for the meetings, lunch arrangements,
etc. Sure, there were a couple slight hiccups, but anyone who has ever hosted
a large caver gathering run entirely by volunteers knows that those happen
and I doubt anyone who wasn't directly working on party planning even
noticed.
Thank you SO MUCH to all the Texas cavers from all around the state that
showed up, and the grottos/organizations who donated so we could show the
BOG some good old-fashioned Texas hospitality. I will post the details
tomorrow for all who weren't able to make it. I certainly wouldn't want anyone
who wasn't able to attend to think that the BOG was anything close to a
"complete disaster". Far, far from it....
and David? FYI, the BOG Strategic Planning/Initiatives meeting is still
going on, so the "last BOG member to go to the airport" is still sitting in
his meeting. Please attempt get your facts straight before you start
trashing the people who worked hard to put this together.
Mallory Mayeux
GHG Secretary/BOG Planner-person
On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 11:40 AM, David <_dlocklear01@gmail.com_
(mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com) > wrote:
I am imposing a 24 hour Facebook de-friendship ( FDF ) on every caver
east of the Brazos River
and south of Huntsville.
I am imposing a 48 hour FDF on all the active cavers in the 3 grottos
of that region.
And a 1 week FDF on the planning committee of the BOG.
And a 3 week FDF on all the old GHG'ers, who did not lift a finger to help.
I am imposing a 6 week FDF on the person who had the idea to serve RAW
corn tortillas with
the fajitas.
And a 2 month FDF on the person whose job it was to delegate items for
the party such as
ice and paper plates, and other food items to complement the fajitas.
And a 3 month FDF on 2 individuals who made my life miserable since April.
And another 3 month added on to that, for whoever made the final call
on the registration
web-site.
And a 6 month FDF to whoever dropped the ball, on getting the last BOG
member to
Intercontinental Airport.
For those not on Facebook, I am filtering you out of my e-mail for 2
times the amount
of time.
I am imposing a sever penalty to Blackberry for all the headaches I
had with my phone
this week. Meaning, I am going to tell everyone I know how much my
Blackberry Style
sucks.
And I wish I could FDF myself. Friday, the transmission went out
on our car. This caused
me to miss 1/3 of the Howdy Party. And the shade-tree mechanic that
I hired, loaned me the
beater from h*ll, that broke down on me on the way to the business
meeting. And after that,
I had to put out a $ 10 problem at work, that made me late and
exhausted upon arrival to the
BOG Party.
And to mother nature delivering her swarm of mosquitoes, I will
dedicate my life to killing
every mosquito that I can that touches me or my family.
I will allow at least 4 particular cavers a fair chance to contest the
above FDF's, or to request
a reduced suspension, only because they did quite a bit of work on the
BOG and have also
on previous occasions, and it would would have been a complete
disaster had they dropped
the ball at the last minute.
David Locklear
much more grumpier than usual
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some of us were out West climbing mountains and discovering new caves...
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "David" <dlocklea...@gmail.com>
To: "Cavers Texas" <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 10:40 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] vaguely BOG related
I am imposing a 24 hour Facebook de-friendship ( FDF ) on every caver
east of the Brazos River
and south of Huntsville.
I am imposing a 48 hour FDF on all the active cavers in the 3 grottos
of that region.
And a 1 week FDF on the planning committee of the BOG.
And a 3 week FDF on all the old GHG'ers, who did not lift a finger to
help.
I am imposing a 6 week FDF on the person who had the idea to serve RAW
corn tortillas with
the fajitas.
And a 2 month FDF on the person whose job it was to delegate items for
the party such as
ice and paper plates, and other food items to complement the fajitas.
And a 3 month FDF on 2 individuals who made my life miserable since April.
And another 3 month added on to that, for whoever made the final call
on the registration
web-site.
And a 6 month FDF to whoever dropped the ball, on getting the last BOG
member to
Intercontinental Airport.
For those not on Facebook, I am filtering you out of my e-mail for 2
times the amount
of time.
I am imposing a sever penalty to Blackberry for all the headaches I
had with my phone
this week. Meaning, I am going to tell everyone I know how much my
Blackberry Style
sucks.
And I wish I could FDF myself. Friday, the transmission went out
on our car. This caused
me to miss 1/3 of the Howdy Party. And the shade-tree mechanic that
I hired, loaned me the
beater from h*ll, that broke down on me on the way to the business
meeting. And after that,
I had to put out a $ 10 problem at work, that made me late and
exhausted upon arrival to the
BOG Party.
And to mother nature delivering her swarm of mosquitoes, I will
dedicate my life to killing
every mosquito that I can that touches me or my family.
I will allow at least 4 particular cavers a fair chance to contest the
above FDF's, or to request
a reduced suspension, only because they did quite a bit of work on the
BOG and have also
on previous occasions, and it would would have been a complete
disaster had they dropped
the ball at the last minute.
David Locklear
much more grumpier than usual
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David, you and I must have been at different parties, but I swear I was
talking to someone who looked just like you and arrived with a gallon-sized can
of peaches like you have been hauling back and forth from your east Texas
picnic. Either that, or you are on some good drugs or in need of some serious
counseling. The party I was at was great, well organized, and had plenty of
wonderful food and more than enough implements to eat it with. There was a full
bar, two kegs of beer, music, and great bat decorations. The GHG did us Texas
cavers proud. They worked together extremely well to plan and execute this
function, and it showed. I suggest that if you don't have anything nice to say,
then don't say anything.
Jim "Crash" Kennedy
On Oct 23, 2011, at 11:41 AM, "David" <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am imposing a 24 hour Facebook de-friendship ( FDF ) on every caver
> east of the Brazos River
> and south of Huntsville.
>
> I am imposing a 48 hour FDF on all the active cavers in the 3 grottos
> of that region.
>
> And a 1 week FDF on the planning committee of the BOG.
>
> And a 3 week FDF on all the old GHG'ers, who did not lift a finger to help.
>
> I am imposing a 6 week FDF on the person who had the idea to serve RAW
> corn tortillas with
> the fajitas.
>
> And a 2 month FDF on the person whose job it was to delegate items for
> the party such as
> ice and paper plates, and other food items to complement the fajitas.
>
> And a 3 month FDF on 2 individuals who made my life miserable since April.
>
> And another 3 month added on to that, for whoever made the final call
> on the registration
> web-site.
>
> And a 6 month FDF to whoever dropped the ball, on getting the last BOG
> member to
> Intercontinental Airport.
>
> For those not on Facebook, I am filtering you out of my e-mail for 2
> times the amount
> of time.
>
> I am imposing a sever penalty to Blackberry for all the headaches I
> had with my phone
> this week. Meaning, I am going to tell everyone I know how much my
> Blackberry Style
> sucks.
>
> And I wish I could FDF myself. Friday, the transmission went out
> on our car. This caused
> me to miss 1/3 of the Howdy Party. And the shade-tree mechanic that
> I hired, loaned me the
> beater from h*ll, that broke down on me on the way to the business
> meeting. And after that,
> I had to put out a $ 10 problem at work, that made me late and
> exhausted upon arrival to the
> BOG Party.
>
> And to mother nature delivering her swarm of mosquitoes, I will
> dedicate my life to killing
> every mosquito that I can that touches me or my family.
>
> I will allow at least 4 particular cavers a fair chance to contest the
> above FDF's, or to request
> a reduced suspension, only because they did quite a bit of work on the
> BOG and have also
> on previous occasions, and it would would have been a complete
> disaster had they dropped
> the ball at the last minute.
>
> David Locklear
> much more grumpier than usual
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A BIG thank you goes out to:
TJ, Everen, Steve, Julia, Sid and Peter for cooking.
Bill for arranging the beer with Shiner.
Ernie for delivering the beer from Shiner.
Louise and Paul for letting us use their place for the Saturday party.
Dave Cave for running the bar.
Greyson for shuttling people to and from the airport, plus supplying
sign materials.
Kevin for arranging the party at the Gingerman and the Sunday meeting
at the museum.
Roger for arranging the Saturday meeting at Rice U, for providing
rides to and from the airport, for providing accomodations for the NSS
BOG and for providing tables and chairs.
Clint for his leadership and planning.
Sid and Don for providing accomodation and transportation for the NSS BOG.
Mallory for organizing the volunteers & cooks and coordinating with the NSS BOG.
Andy and Hanah for helping with the groceries at HEB.
--
Lyndon Tiu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The events surrounding the fall NSS Board of Governors (BOG) Meeting are now
at a close, and we here in Houston can finally come up for air. The
festivities ended this afternoon (Sunday), with a strategic planning meeting
at the historic 1940 Air Terminal Museum at Hobby Airport, and let me tell
you, there are some really positive things happening within the NSS!
>From the Greater Houston Grotto's perspective, hosting this event was
certainly a team effort and a very rewarding experience. For those of you
who didn't make it to the event, you missed an incredible gathering of great
people and great cavers. And for those of you who DID make it, thank you
very much for contributing to this event! A few highlights included: Roger
Moore presenting the NSS BOG with a framed certificate commemorating October
22, 2011 as the official "National Speleological Society Day" for the City
of Houston; NSS President Wm. Shrewsbury whacking a bat pinata; Kevin and
Emily McGowen being awarded a beautiful cave photograph as a GHG lifetime
achievement award; and Louise Hose delivering Jean DeVries to the door of
the Sunday meeting via her personal aircraft! We even had several BOG
members tell us that they sincerely felt that the BOG dinner/party was the
best they had ever attended (though it sounded like they weren't at the
legendary Buda BOG in the 70's)! And of course, this wouldn't have been
possible without the support of the entire Texas caving community! In
particular, thank you to the Bexar Grotto, DFW Grotto, and TSA for donating
to the event! Outside of the Houston area, thank you to folks like Ernie
Garza and Bill Steele for obtainng kegs from the Shiner Brewery, Dave
McClung for his bartender services, Hungarian Barbara for helping to shop,
and Sue Schindel for single-handling saving party goers from swarms of
mosquitoes with some timely bug spray. Then there are my fellow Houston
cavers who went above and beyond the call of duty: Mallory, Lyndon, Kevin,
Roger, Louise, Paul, Peter, Evren, Stephen, TJ, David, Don, Sid, Ray, Julia,
Greyson, Will, and Andy. And I sincerely apologize if I missed anyone (like
the various folks who helped set-up and clean-up the events). Thank you!
Sincerely,
Clint Ladd (GHG Chairman)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Clint, Roger, Louise. and everyone too numerous to list here,
I would like to personally thank everyone for their hard work hosting our
Board meeting. By "our" I mean not only the Board of Governors, but every
member of our Society. We exist because of you, and it is through members
such as yourselves that we have accomplished so much over the last 70 years.
Every host group brings their own flavor to the Society, and I'd have to say
you definitely brought the meat to the table! I, for one, will always
remember "It's National Speleological Society Day on October 22nd!"
It is always amazing to see the diversity of our membership ride along so
well with the common goals we strive for. Thank you very much, and we look
forward to molding our Society into the organization that will make us all
proud.
Clint, you deserve a special thanks for the work you're doing in Houston.
Additionally, I'd like to thank you for attending the Strategic Planning
Workshop on Sunday and the invaluable input you provided. Folks, let me
tell you this man is bubbling over with excitement not only for caving and
his fellow cavers, but for the Society as a whole. I'd say you are
fortunate to have him as the GHG Chairman, however I'm sure you already know
that. We hope one day to have him on our Society's board.
Keep up the great work and we'll see you underground,
Wm Shrewsbury
NSS President
From: Clint Ladd [mailto:cavel...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 11:02 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] BOG Recap and Thank You!
The events surrounding the fall NSS Board of Governors (BOG) Meeting are now
at a close, and we here in Houston can finally come up for air. The
festivities ended this afternoon (Sunday), with a strategic planning meeting
at the historic 1940 Air Terminal Museum at Hobby Airport, and let me tell
you, there are some really positive things happening within the NSS!
>From the Greater Houston Grotto's perspective, hosting this event was
certainly a team effort and a very rewarding experience. For those of you
who didn't make it to the event, you missed an incredible gathering of great
people and great cavers. And for those of you who DID make it, thank you
very much for contributing to this event! A few highlights included: Roger
Moore presenting the NSS BOG with a framed certificate commemorating October
22, 2011 as the official "National Speleological Society Day" for the City
of Houston; NSS President Wm. Shrewsbury whacking a bat pinata; Kevin and
Emily McGowen being awarded a beautiful cave photograph as a GHG lifetime
achievement award; and Louise Hose delivering Jean DeVries to the door of
the Sunday meeting via her personal aircraft! We even had several BOG
members tell us that they sincerely felt that the BOG dinner/party was the
best they had ever attended (though it sounded like they weren't at the
legendary Buda BOG in the 70's)! And of course, this wouldn't have been
possible without the support of the entire Texas caving community! In
particular, thank you to the Bexar Grotto, DFW Grotto, and TSA for donating
to the event! Outside of the Houston area, thank you to folks like Ernie
Garza and Bill Steele for obtainng kegs from the Shiner Brewery, Dave
McClung for his bartender services, Hungarian Barbara for helping to shop,
and Sue Schindel for single-handling saving party goers from swarms of
mosquitoes with some timely bug spray. Then there are my fellow Houston
cavers who went above and beyond the call of duty: Mallory, Lyndon, Kevin,
Roger, Louise, Paul, Peter, Evren, Stephen, TJ, David, Don, Sid, Ray, Julia,
Greyson, Will, and Andy. And I sincerely apologize if I missed anyone (like
the various folks who helped set-up and clean-up the events). Thank you!
Sincerely,
Clint Ladd (GHG Chairman)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dorothy Mladenka from Houston asked me to send this message and link. It's worth watching, and at the end you'll see the size of the camera she
used!
Logan
Dorothy writes:
This was taken at the TCR. I used a toy plastic camera: the VQ 2005. It has a
plastic lens and no sound. NO special effects were used, what you see is
exactly what I get when I shoot the camera. I have to wait until I download the
files on the computer before I can see what I did or did not capture....I
purchased the camera for $30 on Walmart.com.....Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At_gW4Y0RmA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am posting this on behalf of Mike Walsh,
Friday afternoon, Cindy Warton, wife of Mike Warton, suffered a heart attack
while driving. This resulted in a minor accident observed by EMS personal.
They were able to treat her at the scene and rushed her to the Round Rock
Hospital. Cindy was then placed into a coma to prevent problems. At this
time, indications seem to be good toward her recovery. Additional information
will be posted when more is known. As you might imagine, things are a bit
tight for Mike & Cindy. If you would liketo make a donation, please send a
check or money order to assist to: Mike Warton1800 West ParkCedar Park, TX
78613 The letters will be passed on to Mike Warton unopened.
Thanks, Mike Walsh
Leslie Bell
--- End Message ---
