texascavers Digest 22 May 2013 20:47:04 -0000 Issue 1762
Topics (messages 21834 through 21839):
Re: News report on threat to Bracken Bat Cave
21834 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com
21835 by: Phil Winkler
21837 by: Stefan Creaser
21838 by: Jon
architecture students and NSS headquarters
21836 by: Mixon Bill
Bad music, good topos
21839 by: BMorgan994.aol.com
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
Very true, George. I hadn't thought of that.
Mark
From: George Veni [mailto:gv...@nckri.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 2:31 PM
To: Alman, Mark @ ESG - WSS - IRP; Texas Cavers; New Mexico Cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] News report on threat to Bracken Bat Cave
Mark,
That's a good and fair question. It also ties more into biology so I'll
defer to Jim Kennedy to answer more authoritatively than I can as a
hydrogeologist. However, in the comments I sent to the San Antonio City
Council I pointed out that the high-density development is also over the
Edwards Aquifer Recharge Zone. Such developments have been demonstrated
to diminish the volume of water replenishing the region's primary water
supply as well as having a much greater risk of degrading the quality of
the water. While bats are getting the emphasis, this type of development
is also bad for people who rely on the Edwards.
George
********************
George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.org
From: mark.al...@l-3com.com [mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 1:15 PM
To: George Veni; Texas Cavers; New Mexico Cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] News report on threat to Bracken Bat Cave
Thanks for the interesting post, George.
I do have one question, though, and I am NOT picking sides here:
What's the difference between houses "800 to 900" yards away from the
Bracken Cave entrance and bats living under the Congress Street Bridge
in Austin, smack dab in the middle of downtown Austin?
The Austin colony seems to be functioning fine and thriving, may I say,
growing? And the buildings (read "high rises") are much closer than 800
to 900 yards.
Just playing dumb here, so please don't advocate having me drawn and
quartered and left in a pile of guano!
Inquiring minds just want to know.
Your thoughts?
(I'm ducking under a table now)
Mark Alman (not Minton) J
From: George Veni [mailto:gv...@nckri.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:09 PM
To: Texas Cavers; New Mexico Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] News report on threat to Bracken Bat Cave
http://www.kens5.com/news/Bracken-Bat-Cave-vs-Crescent-Hills--208381441.
html
For more information and to learn how to help, go to
http://www.batcon.org/index.php/media-and-info/latest-news/714-save-brac
ken-cave-reserve.html?utm_campaign=education&utm_source=external&utm_med
ium=redirect.
San Antonio City Council will meet to discuss and decide on this issue
in one week. Sign the on-line petition but if you have time, remember
that your letters and e-mails will have much greater impact, especially
if received before the meeting on the 29th so the mayor, councilors, and
their staff have time to read or at least review them. If you live in
the San Antonio, your physical presence at the council meeting is also
important.
Please share this message with anyone you think may be interested.
George
********************
George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's not easy. Most of them are just winging it. Some got bridge loans, too.
At 5/22/2013 02:31 PM -0500, Bill Bentley wrote:
How can those bats afford to live in that high rent area?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote:
Thanks for the interesting post, George.
I do have one question, though, and I am NOT picking sides here:
What's the difference between houses "800 to 900" yards away from
the Bracken Cave entrance and bats living under the Congress Street
Bridge in Austin, smack dab in the middle of downtown Austin?
The Austin colony seems to be functioning fine and thriving, may I
say, growing? And the buildings (read "high rises") are much closer
than 800 to 900 yards.
Just playing dumb here, so please don't advocate having me drawn and
quartered and left in a pile of guano!
Inquiring minds just want to know.
Your thoughts?
(I'm ducking under a table now)
Mark Alman (not Minton) J
From: George Veni [mailto:gv...@nckri.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:09 PM
To: Texas Cavers; New Mexico Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] News report on threat to Bracken Bat Cave
<http://www.kens5.com/news/Bracken-Bat-Cave-vs-Crescent-Hills--208381441.html>http://www.kens5.com/news/Bracken-Bat-Cave-vs-Crescent-Hills--208381441.html
For more information and to learn how to help, go to
<http://www.batcon.org/index.php/media-and-info/latest-news/714-save-bracken-cave-reserve.html?utm_campaign=education&utm_source=external&utm_medium=redirect>http://www.batcon.org/index.php/media-and-info/latest-news/714-save-bracken-cave-reserve.html?utm_campaign=education&utm_source=external&utm_medium=redirect.
San Antonio City Council will meet to discuss and decide on this
issue in one week. Sign the on-line petition but if you have time,
remember that your letters and e-mails will have much greater
impact, especially if received before the meeting on the 29th so the
mayor, councilors, and their staff have time to read or at least
review them. If you live in the San Antonio, your physical presence
at the council meeting is also important.
Please share this message with anyone you think may be interested.
George
********************
George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.org
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3162/5847 - Release Date: 05/22/13
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Those people are *taxpayers*, they should be allowed to live where they want so
they can pay taxes to San Antonio!
From: mark.al...@l-3com.com [mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 2:37 PM
To: George Veni; Texas Cavers; New Mexico Cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] News report on threat to Bracken Bat Cave
Very true, George. I hadn't thought of that.
Mark
From: George Veni [mailto:gv...@nckri.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 2:31 PM
To: Alman, Mark @ ESG - WSS - IRP; Texas Cavers; New Mexico Cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] News report on threat to Bracken Bat Cave
Mark,
That's a good and fair question. It also ties more into biology so I'll defer
to Jim Kennedy to answer more authoritatively than I can as a hydrogeologist.
However, in the comments I sent to the San Antonio City Council I pointed out
that the high-density development is also over the Edwards Aquifer Recharge
Zone. Such developments have been demonstrated to diminish the volume of water
replenishing the region's primary water supply as well as having a much greater
risk of degrading the quality of the water. While bats are getting the
emphasis, this type of development is also bad for people who rely on the
Edwards.
George
********************
George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org<mailto:gv...@nckri.org>
www.nckri.org<http://www.nckri.org>
From: mark.al...@l-3com.com<mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com>
[mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 1:15 PM
To: George Veni; Texas Cavers; New Mexico Cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] News report on threat to Bracken Bat Cave
Thanks for the interesting post, George.
I do have one question, though, and I am NOT picking sides here:
What's the difference between houses "800 to 900" yards away from the Bracken
Cave entrance and bats living under the Congress Street Bridge in Austin, smack
dab in the middle of downtown Austin?
The Austin colony seems to be functioning fine and thriving, may I say,
growing? And the buildings (read "high rises") are much closer than 800 to 900
yards.
Just playing dumb here, so please don't advocate having me drawn and quartered
and left in a pile of guano!
Inquiring minds just want to know.
Your thoughts?
(I'm ducking under a table now)
Mark Alman (not Minton) :)
From: George Veni [mailto:gv...@nckri.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:09 PM
To: Texas Cavers; New Mexico Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] News report on threat to Bracken Bat Cave
http://www.kens5.com/news/Bracken-Bat-Cave-vs-Crescent-Hills--208381441.html
For more information and to learn how to help, go to
http://www.batcon.org/index.php/media-and-info/latest-news/714-save-bracken-cave-reserve.html?utm_campaign=education&utm_source=external&utm_medium=redirect.
San Antonio City Council will meet to discuss and decide on this issue in one
week. Sign the on-line petition but if you have time, remember that your
letters and e-mails will have much greater impact, especially if received
before the meeting on the 29th so the mayor, councilors, and their staff have
time to read or at least review them. If you live in the San Antonio, your
physical presence at the council meeting is also important.
Please share this message with anyone you think may be interested.
George
********************
George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org<mailto:gv...@nckri.org>
www.nckri.org<http://www.nckri.org>
-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any
medium. Thank you.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They re not living IN the high rises. They are living under the bridge.
Under the bridge living is done all over (under) the major cities.
It's a whole different level of living.
________________________________
From: Phil Winkler <pw...@dca.net>
To: Bill Bentley <ca...@caver.net>; mark.al...@l-3com.com
Cc: George Veni <gv...@nckri.org>; CaveTex <texascavers@texascavers.com>; New
Mexico Cavers <s...@caver.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] News report on threat to Bracken Bat Cave
It's not easy. Most of them are just winging it. Some got bridge loans,
too.
At 5/22/2013 02:31 PM -0500, Bill Bentley wrote:
How can those bats afford to
live in that high rent area?
>Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
>
>
>mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote:
>
>Thanks for the interesting post, George.
>
>
>
>I do have one question, though, and I am NOT picking sides here:
>
>
>
>
>
>What� the difference between houses �00 to 900�yards away from the
Bracken Cave entrance and bats living under the Congress Street Bridge in
Austin, smack dab in the middle of downtown Austin?
>
>
>
>The Austin colony seems to be functioning fine and thriving, may I say,
growing? And the buildings (read �igh rises� are much closer than 800
to 900 yards.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Just playing dumb here, so please don� advocate having me drawn and
quartered and left in a pile of guano!
>
>
>
>
>
>Inquiring minds just want to know.
>
>
>
>
>
>Your thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>(I� ducking under a table now)
>
>
>
>Mark Alman (not Minton) J
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: George Veni
[mailto:gv...@nckri.org]
>Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:09 PM
>To: Texas Cavers; New Mexico Cavers
>Subject: [Texascavers] News report on threat to Bracken Bat
Cave
>
>
>
>http://www.kens5.com/news/Bracken-Bat-Cave-vs-Crescent-Hills--208381441.html
>
>
>
>For more information and to learn how to help, go to
>http://www.batcon.org/index.php/media-and-info/latest-news/714-save-bracken-cave-reserve.html?utm_campaign=education&utm_source=external&utm_medium=redirect
> .
>
>
>
>San Antonio City Council will meet to discuss and decide on this issue in
one week. Sign the on-line petition but if you have time, remember that
your letters and e-mails will have much greater impact, especially if
received before the meeting on the 29th so the mayor,
councilors, and their staff have time to read or at least review them. If
you live in the San Antonio, your physical presence at the council
meeting is also important.
>
>
>
>Please share this message with anyone you think may be
interested.
>
>
>
>George
>
>
>
>********************
>
>George Veni, Ph.D.
>
>Executive Director
>
>National Cave and Karst Research Institute
>
>400-1 Cascades Avenue
>
>Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
>
>Office: 575-887-5517
>
>Mobile: 210-863-5919
>
>Fax: 575-887-5523
>
>gv...@nckri.org
>
>http://www.nckri.org/
>
>
>
>No virus found in this message.
>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/
>Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3162/5847 - Release Date:
05/22/13
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I ran across a large, undated report by architecture students (I
assume) at the University of Michigan containing proposals for a new
NSS headquarters in the Mammoth Cave area. It is available from
http://www.lulu.com/shop/underground-studio/underground-studio-research-book-final/ebook/product-17352796.html
Looks like an entertaining example of promoting a location and an
exercise in designing buildings for an unusual purpose. The price is
only 99 cents for PDF file, but you'll have to go through the hassle
of registering for a lulu.com account. I can provide a copy to anyone
interested. The NSS has since, of course, opted to move to a new
location in Huntsville. -- Mixon
----------------------------------------
Not very tall is not the opposite of very tall.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm a fully credentialed hippie who went to the 67 convention on my way to
California for the "summer of love" and despite that I loathe the Doors,
Deep Purple and all other such music for idiots.
On my last trip to Thailand I was literally driven out of paradise by
pseudonegro Thai Rastas who competed with each other by blasting reggae, hip
hop, and tekno music so loudly that the auditory assault could be heard miles
away. Tropical karst often features vertical cliffs which echo the sound.
Combine that with unmuffled generators and barking dogs. There was no escape
wherever I went in southern Thailand. If there was a beach anywhere in the
vicinity, or even flat ground to camp on, the entire place would be
covered with garbage and the air filled with intolerable noise.
It didn't use to be that way. When I first visited Thailand people were
very respectful and would never play loud music that could be heard by others.
Then access to TV allowed the worst aspects of global culture to spread
like a disease. I saw the same thing happen in Belize.
Here at Weazelworld there is blissful silence. The closest road is over a
mile away. In the winter I can hear the highway but in summer I hear only
the sounds of nature. I will not tolerate noise and cannot understand how
people can live in cities. If I visit someone and they leave the TV on in the
background I leave. If I am in a bar and there are two competing sources of
music I leave. I'm headed into to town right now to buy new fluorescent
lights because the old ones make a faint hum.
Once it is quiet and no one is yapping like a poodle then it is time to
listen to some music. I like all kinds of music other than disco and its
derivatives such as pop and hip hop. One of my favorites is to burn a big fat
one then listen to equally stoned pigmies sitting around in the jungle
beating on logs with sticks while whooping and hollering. Now that's a party!
As for superimposing topos onto to google earth just forget it. A much
better way is to use _Acme Mapper 2_ (http://mapper.acme.com/) which uses
google earth imagery but you can also toggle back and forth to a seamless topo
at the same scale (provided you are looking at someplae within the US).
Another good thing is the terrain feature which works for the entire world, it
is grossly inaccurate but really good for seeing the big picture. There
are other options as well. It requires no download, just open it up and bingo
there you are. It will remember where you last visited anywhere on earth
and open back up to the same spot. The only downside is that it is not
interactive like google earth, no tracks, no tilting or other fancy gizmos,
but
for finding places to explore it is the best!
Sleazeweazel
ps: The loudest noise I have ever been subjected to was the time I set up
my tent in Dapper Don Broussard's back yard when he lived by the freeway in
Austin. It was about 110 degrees at midnight and the ground shook
continuously from the semis that were only a few feet away but I very much
appreciated the great hospitality!
--- End Message ---
