texascavers Digest 15 Apr 2012 21:43:54 -0000 Issue 1530
Topics (messages 19838 through 19850):
Re: TSA Meeting Minutes
19838 by: Don Arburn
19839 by: Michael Cicherski
Re: NSS Conservation Network - New USFWS WNS Decon Protocols
19840 by: Allan B. Cobb
Close all caves?
19841 by: Linda Palit
19842 by: Mark Minton
19843 by: Linda Palit
19844 by: Stefan Creaser
19845 by: Joe & Evelynn
19847 by: Louise Power
19848 by: Louise Power
CBD insanity
19846 by: Jim Evatt
The Deep Zone review
19849 by: Mixon Bill
NSS Vice Presidents
19850 by: C Tiderman
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Denise!!! Good work.
Sent cellularly.
-Don
On Apr 12, 2012, at 7:18 PM, Denise P <pepabe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hello-The minutes from the TSA meeting conducted at Spring Convention are
> posted at:
>
> http://cavetexas.org/PDF/TSA/Minutes-2012-03-31.pdf, also linked from the
> home page and the minute page from
> http://cavetexas.org/TSA/tsaofficialbusiness.html, at:
> http://cavetexas.org/TSA/meetingminutes.html.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Denise Prendergast
> TSA Secretary
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Denise!
On Apr 12, 2012, at 19:20, Don Arburn <donarb...@mac.com> wrote:
> Thanks Denise!!! Good work.
>
> Sent cellularly.
> -Don
>
> On Apr 12, 2012, at 7:18 PM, Denise P <pepabe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello-The minutes from the TSA meeting conducted at Spring Convention are
>> posted at:
>>
>> http://cavetexas.org/PDF/TSA/Minutes-2012-03-31.pdf, also linked from the
>> home page and the minute page from
>> http://cavetexas.org/TSA/tsaofficialbusiness.html, at:
>> http://cavetexas.org/TSA/meetingminutes.html.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Denise Prendergast
>> TSA Secretary
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Below is a new addition to the WNS decon protocols.
Allan
Sent with my fat thumbs on my iPhone
Begin forwarded message:
> From: "Steve Smith" <stevenlsm...@usa.net>
> Date: April 13, 2012 12:09:12 AM CDT
> To: <stevenlsm...@usa.net>
> Subject: NSS Conservation Network - New USFWS WNS Decon Protocols
>
> From Jim Werker and Val Hildreth-Werker, NSS Conservation Division Co-Chairs
> (through the NSS Conservation Network - Steve Smith, Coordinator):
>
> We just received this information from Peter Youngbaer, NSS WNS Liaison, who
> requested that it be sent out on the NSS Conservation Network (NSSCN).
> Please pass the word out to the folks within your IO.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jim & Val
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
> The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service today, April 9, 2012, released
> their new cleaning and disinfecting protocols for dealing with White
> Nose Syndrome. A major new addition is a non-chemical hot water
> standard for disinfection: maintaining clothing and gear submerged in
> hot water at a sustained temperature of greater than 50 degrees
> Celsius (122 F) for more than 15 minutes. IMPORTANT: This hot water
> disinfecting is done AFTER completing the usual cleaning with
> surfactant, such as Woolite, and removal of organic material
>
> The full protocol can be found at:
>
> http://whitenosesyndrome.org/sites/default/files/resource/national_wns_decontamination_protocol_v_03.15.2012.pdf
>
> Peter Youngbaer
> White Nose Syndrome Liaison
> National Speleological Society
> (802) 272-3802
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
> In my never-ending quest to keep the NSSCN E-Mail addressee list as current
> as
> possible, I'd appreciate it greatly if each IO would send me their "druthers"
> on who within the IO they'd like to receive this info. Usually, this info
> should go to the IO Conservation Chair, for subsequent forwarding out to
> their
> respective membership. If the IO does not have a designated Conservation
> Chair, then this info should go to the overall IO Chair. Please send me any
> addressee changes/updates due to IO internal elections, folks moving out of
> town, etc.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Steve Smith, NSSCN coordinator
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Forwarded from SWR
As you may know, the CBD is petitioning the White House to close all
public caves and fine private landowners who keep their caves open.
This is a serious threat to the caves, which are often vandalized when
responsible visitation is removed, and does nothing to protect the
bats since WNS is spread bat-to-bat. Human contributions to spread can
be effectively controlled with decon, assuming a human vector ever
existed. Closing publicly owned caves to the public is a threat to
conservation, a limitation of freedom, and is based on bad science,
and I am tired of not standing up to say that. If you support this
cause, please sign this counter petition to keep the caves open.
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/
!/petition/support-conservation-recreation-science-and-personal-freedom-mandating-public-access-caves-public/YX8Bjp3F
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wondered the same thing. This is the response I sent to
the SWR list:
It is true that CBD wants all federally-owned caves closed,
but I can find no evidence that they are also seeking fines for
private landowners who do not follow suit. Where did this
information come from? Here are a couple of relevant web
pages:
<http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2012/white-nose-syndrome-04-11-2012.html>,
<http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/center/articles/2012/summit-county-citizens-voice-04-12-2012.html>.
Before I ask anyone to sign the petition I'd like to know that the
information is accurate. Thank you.
Mark Minton
At 03:42 PM 4/13/2012, Linda Palit wrote:
Forwarded from SWR
As you may know, the CBD is petitioning the White House to close all
public caves and fine private landowners who keep their caves open.
This is a serious threat to the caves, which are often vandalized when
responsible visitation is removed, and does nothing to protect the
bats since WNS is spread bat-to-bat. Human contributions to spread can
be effectively controlled with decon, assuming a human vector ever
existed. Closing publicly owned caves to the public is a threat to
conservation, a limitation of freedom, and is based on bad science,
and I am tired of not standing up to say that. If you support this
cause, please sign this counter petition to keep the caves open.
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/support-conservation-recreation-science-and-personal-freedom-mandating-public-access-caves-public/YX8Bjp3F
Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Center for Biological Diversity. Non- profit group suing the government.
On Friday, April 13, 2012, Mark Minton wrote:
> I wondered the same thing. This is the response I sent to the SWR
> list:
>
> It is true that CBD wants all federally-owned caves closed, but I
> can find no evidence that they are also seeking fines for private
> landowners who do not follow suit. Where did this information come from?
> Here are a couple of relevant web pages: <http://www.**
> biologicaldiversity.org/news/**press_releases/2012/white-**
> nose-syndrome-04-11-2012.html<http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2012/white-nose-syndrome-04-11-2012.html>
> >**, <http://www.**biologicaldiversity.org/news/**
> center/articles/2012/summit-**county-citizens-voice-04-12-**2012.html<http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/center/articles/2012/summit-county-citizens-voice-04-12-2012.html>>.
> Before I ask anyone to sign the petition I'd like to know that the
> information is accurate. Thank you.
>
> Mark Minton
>
> At 03:42 PM 4/13/2012, Linda Palit wrote:
>
>> Forwarded from SWR
>>
>> As you may know, the CBD is petitioning the White House to close all
>> public caves and fine private landowners who keep their caves open.
>> This is a serious threat to the caves, which are often vandalized when
>> responsible visitation is removed, and does nothing to protect the
>> bats since WNS is spread bat-to-bat. Human contributions to spread can
>> be effectively controlled with decon, assuming a human vector ever
>> existed. Closing publicly owned caves to the public is a threat to
>> conservation, a limitation of freedom, and is based on bad science,
>> and I am tired of not standing up to say that. If you support this
>> cause, please sign this counter petition to keep the caves open.
>>
>> https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/**petitions/!/petition/support-**
>> conservation-recreation-**science-and-personal-freedom-**
>> mandating-public-access-caves-**public/YX8Bjp3F<https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/support-conservation-recreation-science-and-personal-freedom-mandating-public-access-caves-public/YX8Bjp3F>
>>
>
> Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
> Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is this the one where they spend all their donated money on lawyers to sue the
government for more money to pay on lawyers, etc.
What does BillM 'say'?: May the last lawyer be strangled with the entrails of
the last priest.
--Stefan
From: Linda Palit [mailto:linda.k.pa...@gmail.com]
Center for Biological Diversity. Non- profit group suing the government.
-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any
medium. Thank you.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
USFWS issued the following response to the CBD petition last summer basically
calling it ridiculous:
http://nrmg.cavesofmontana.org/content/bats-wns/2011_07_USFWS-response-to-CBD.pdf
I think this is a dead issue.
Joe
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 13, 2012, at 2:42 PM, Linda Palit <linda.k.pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Forwarded from SWR
>
> As you may know, the CBD is petitioning the White House to close all
> public caves and fine private landowners who keep their caves open.
> This is a serious threat to the caves, which are often vandalized when
> responsible visitation is removed, and does nothing to protect the
> bats since WNS is spread bat-to-bat. Human contributions to spread can
> be effectively controlled with decon, assuming a human vector ever
> existed. Closing publicly owned caves to the public is a threat to
> conservation, a limitation of freedom, and is based on bad science,
> and I am tired of not standing up to say that. If you support this
> cause, please sign this counter petition to keep the caves open.
>
> https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/support-conservation-recreation-science-and-personal-freedom-mandating-public-access-caves-public/YX8Bjp3F
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have heard nothing so far from the FS and BLM out here. Of course, we're
pretty far out here from known infectious areas.
Louise
> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 16:18:31 -0400
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> From: mmin...@caver.net
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Close all caves?
>
> I wondered the same thing. This is the response I sent to
> the SWR list:
>
> It is true that CBD wants all federally-owned caves closed,
> but I can find no evidence that they are also seeking fines for
> private landowners who do not follow suit. Where did this
> information come from? Here are a couple of relevant web
> pages:
> <http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2012/white-nose-syndrome-04-11-2012.html>,
>
> <http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/center/articles/2012/summit-county-citizens-voice-04-12-2012.html>.
>
> Before I ask anyone to sign the petition I'd like to know that the
> information is accurate. Thank you.
>
> Mark Minton
>
> At 03:42 PM 4/13/2012, Linda Palit wrote:
> >Forwarded from SWR
> >
> >As you may know, the CBD is petitioning the White House to close all
> >public caves and fine private landowners who keep their caves open.
> >This is a serious threat to the caves, which are often vandalized when
> >responsible visitation is removed, and does nothing to protect the
> >bats since WNS is spread bat-to-bat. Human contributions to spread can
> >be effectively controlled with decon, assuming a human vector ever
> >existed. Closing publicly owned caves to the public is a threat to
> >conservation, a limitation of freedom, and is based on bad science,
> >and I am tired of not standing up to say that. If you support this
> >cause, please sign this counter petition to keep the caves open.
> >
> >https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/support-conservation-recreation-science-and-personal-freedom-mandating-public-access-caves-public/YX8Bjp3F
>
> Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
> Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As a BLM employee, let me say that groups like CBD keep us in court constantly
be it because of fishers, spotted owls, T&E plants, or other perceived threats.
That's where a lot of your tax money is going...gov't lawyers defending
agencies in court. I can appreciate groups like this trying to protect nature
from the folly of man, but we're not all blazing idiots. Believe it or not,
some of us actually have the same concerns and know what we're doing.
Louise
From: stefan.crea...@arm.com
To: linda.k.pa...@gmail.com
CC: texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 13:40:16 -0700
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: Close all caves?
Is this the one where they spend all their donated money on lawyers to sue the
government for more money to pay on lawyers, etc.
What does BillM ‘say’?: May the last lawyer be strangled with the entrails of
the last priest.
--Stefan
From: Linda Palit [mailto:linda.k.pa...@gmail.com]
Center for Biological Diversity. Non- profit group suing the government.
-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents
to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information
in any medium. Thank you.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Petitioning to keep public caves open is the wrong thing to do, or at least not
the best thing to do.
We need to start an effective petition or “sanction” - to have the CBD shut,
not caves. They have proven none of their absurd allegations, but they’ve
clearly proven one thing - that they are uneducated, uninformed - and
unconscionably and incorrigibly stupid.
Jim Evatt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"The Deep Zone." James M. Tabor. Ballantine Books, New York; 2012.
ISBN 978-0-345-53061-5. 6 by 9 inches, 418 pages, hardbound. $26.00.
In this novel, a drug-resistant variant of a bacteria has symptoms
similar to that of the Ebola virus and breaks out among hospitalized
U.S. troops in Afghanistan. A bioluminescent moonmilk deep in a cave
in Oaxaca, Mexico, may hold the cure. A good bit of the action takes
place in the cave, and the author makes use of the knowledge he gained
in writing "Blind Descent" about the exploration of deep caves. Some
readers will recognize Llano Cheve and the entrance to Cueva Cheve,
though not the cenote in the field. The cave does resemble Cheve,
augmented by lethal concentrations of hydrogen sulfide gas and a long
lake of sulfuric acid. The cave is called Cueva de Luz, similar to the
name of Cueva de la Villa Luz in Tabasco that does feature those
chemicals, although not to that extent. At least there are no fire-
breathing monsters, but I suppose some could be written in when the
movie is made. The book is an action thriller, I guess, of the James
Bond variety, lots of guns and bad guys, though no really big
explosions.
The book might almost be called science fiction and fantasy in a few
places, notably the vertical technique used, but a lot of background
is based loosely on fact. Besides echos of "Blind Descent" and "The
Hot Zone," there are probably nods to other books I have not read.
Sometimes I got the impression that some of the detail was included
mainly to show off the author's research, but perhaps that's typical
of the genre. As in "Blind Descent," there are glitches, some of which
should have been obvious to an editor without special knowledge. The
thickness of 20 mils has become 20 millimeters. Can you imagine a
hazmat suit made of 20 millimeter plastic?
Given the way Tabor made caving sound like the most exciting and
dangerous thing in the world in his non-fiction (more or less) "Blind
Descent," I shuddered at the thought of what he might do in fiction.
But that sort of thing works better, I guess, in a novel like this,
where the reader does not expect realism. I'm not much of a reader of
this sort of book, and I won't seek out more, but it wasn't bad.
--Bill Mixon
----------------------------------------
Nature is a hanging judge.
----------------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello,
The Executive Search Committee is looking for candidates to run for the three
vice president positions at the 2012 Convention. If you are interested in
running or can suggest the name of someone, who would be a good candidate,
please send an email to execsea...@caves.org.
For information on the officers duties please go to:
http://www.caves.org/info/execsearch/
Thanks
Carol
Carol Tiderman
--- End Message ---
