Cavers - This thread was initially posted by Matt Skeels of the Oregon High Desert Grotto. <http://forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13155> http://forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13155
_____ From: nssw...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Johnson Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 4:14 PM To: Diablo Grotto; SFBC; MLG; nssw...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [NSSwest] "Wikipedia poised to list coordinates for U.S. cave articles" Seen on cavechat: http://forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?f=1 <http://forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13155> &t=13155 "I'm an editor of dozens of articles at Wikipedia and a caver too. Naturally, I am involved with the debate over cave articles at Wikipedia. And I'm here to tell you why the National Speleological Society and it's members should be more involved at the discussions over there. 1. Wikipedia is often one of the first results in any Google search. So its information is instantly accessible and at the forefront. 2. Wikipedia is beginning to standardize its infobox (a template detailing facts) on caves. That means they want to make it uniform across the board that all cave articles have a coordinate field. Here's my experience so far. Wikipedia does not like censorship nor does it "cater" to "special groups" and their needs. Meanwhile they ignore that they are a special group with default needs and censor the private information of famous people. So they see that a cave infobox should not exclude the coordinate field. The conflict is, until recently, the Cave infobox on Wikipedia did not have a coordinate field. European (specifically the United Kingdom) editors are naturally more open about their cave locations because their culture is different, so they made a U.K. specific cave infobox with coordinates. When it came for a consensus on Wikipedia, they talked about making the U.K. infobox the worldwide standard, and U.S. the exception. Which makes sense. However! As it is now, the infobox making an exception for the U.S. caves could be overturned at anytime and merged with the previously named U.K. Cave infobox. Making it so that coordinates could be on any cave article. >From all my past experience at Wikipedia, I can tell you this is very likely what's going to happen when it becomes a topic for Wikipedia editors and admins. A few notes. Having coordinates for cave parks and commercial caves is not a problem. But there are cave articles out there that are not commercial. Privately held caves, sensitive eco-system caves, et al., have articles on Wikipedia too. Because American culture does not respect mother nature very well, this could prove disastrous for caves! Any one of you cavers familiar with cave cleanups knows the impact human visitation has on these ecosystems. Your cleanup work will only grow exponentially once a coordinate is listed for previously undisclosed caves. It needs to be established that there must be exceptions to what will be uniform measures to include a coordinate field for all caves. A coordinate field only invites coordinates to be added, and wikipedia bots can be tasked to fill in this information if it exists online. So it's not very hard to do! So my suggestion to you cavers: Spread the word that more attention needs to be placed on Wikipedia. Register and go to these pages (and check the star at the top so you can get updates on any changes): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Caves> ... ject_Caves http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_ <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Caves> ... ject_Caves http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_cave and you will probably eventually want to keep an eye on these pages too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Geographical_coordinates > ... oordinates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_caves http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_caves http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ca <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_caves_in_the_United_States> ... ted_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedian_cavers (not too many!) You will also want to search for Wikipedia pages on any local caves in your area and watch those pages too (check the star at the top of those pages) so you can keep an eye on sensitive caves in your area, if there are any. If you want to see how well I faired (not so good and for better or worse) against the Wikipideans at large, read the lengthy discussion here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2011_No vember_22> ... ovember_22"
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