texascavers Digest 28 Nov 2011 15:32:27 -0000 Issue 1441
Topics (messages 19092 through 19100):
Laos
19092 by: BMorgan994.aol.com
Re: New park land purchase will bridge Hamilton Pool, Reimers Ranch Park :
19093 by: Gill Edigar
Goodenough Spring cave diving article in Dec TPWD magazine
19094 by: Logan McNatt
Goodenough Springs
19095 by: Carl Kunath
Re: [NSSwest] "Wikipedia poised to list coordinates for U.S. cave articles"
19096 by: Matt Bowers
NBC News Item about Young WNS Researcher
19097 by: R D Milhollin
19099 by: Julia Germany
More on Devetashka Cave bats - reduced 75% by filming
19098 by: Lee H. Skinner
calling all sketchers
19100 by: Jim Kennedy
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Dirt Doc: I'm right behind you, Ann Harman and I are leaving for Laos next
Thursday. We will be visiting some of the same areas, but for a longer
period of time and going deeper (into the karst that is, not the caves, you
and
the Frenchies can have the caves!) We will also be exploring further north
along the Nam Ou. This time I hope to avoid problems with the authorities
by not saying a word to anyone. Last time I was in southern Laos they sent
the local militia after me!
After a month in Laos we will fly to southern Thailand for some R&R then
work our way north along the Tenasserim range for another month. Plenty of
caves there too!
I would have posted this on cavechat but the bullshit security rules
wouldn't allow me to log on.
Sleazeweazel
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The story writer made the classic mistake of spelling the family name
Reimer; it is correctly spelled Reimers--in the singular and is not
possessive.
--Ediger
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 2:40 PM, Jerry <jerryat...@aol.com> wrote:
> *New park land purchase will bridge Hamilton Pool, Reimers Ranch Park *
>
> by SHELTON GREEN / KVUE News
> Posted on November 23, 2011 at 8:38 PM
> Updated yesterday at 11:31 AM
> ******
> AUSTIN -- A $20 million transaction approved by Travis County
> Commissioners to buy private land between Milton Reimers Park and Hamilton
> Pool will bridge the gap between the two natural hot spots located about 40
> minutes west of Austin.
> “You almost don't feel like you're in Texas because there's so many leaves
> turning this time of year and the weather right now is perfect,” said John
> Pugh, a Lake McQueeney resident who brought his family to Reimers Ranch
> Park on Wednesday.
>
> An 800-acre tract belonging to the Reimer [sic] family will eventually
> bridge Reimers Ranch Park to Hamilton Pool, creating a 3,500 acre park with
> contiguous natural space.
>
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Austin-based caver Rae Nadler-Olenick has written another interesting article for the Texas Parks and Wildlife magazine. The article in the Dec
2011 issue is titled "Deep, Dark and Dangerous" and describes the exploration of Goodenough Spring, the 3rd largest spring in Texas with a
discharge of 100 to 200 cubic ft per second. The entrance was inundated by Lake Amistad (on the Rio Grande in Val Verde County near Del Rio,
southwest Texas) in 1968 and is 165 ft below the surface of the water. In the early to mid- 1990s, Dallas based diver R.D. Milhollin, with Ise
Kalsi, Terry Scoggins, and Robert Laird were the first to successfully overcome the very formidable challenges of entering the cave and mapping
it to a gravel-filled passage at -200 ft. Exploration resumed in 2000 by the Houston-based Goodenough Springs Exploration Project, whose
divers received the NSS Cave Diving Section's Exploration Award in 2009 for making the deepest cave dive in the U.S. They reached -515 ft, and
IT GOES. The article includes lots of photos, and a list of "Five rules for cave diving", and "Four stages of cave diving certification".
The same issue has a photo essay on the drought and recent wildfires in Texas. TPWD magazine sells for $3.95 at stores; an annual subscription
is only $12 for 10 issues (reduced from 12 issues because of budget cutbacks).
Logan
TPWD Archeology Survey Team, Austin
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You can also read about Goodenough Springs and see a few pictures on pages
300-301 in 50 Years of Texas Caving.
===Carl Kunath
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Logan McNatt
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 4:41 PM
To: Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Goodenough Spring cave diving article in Dec TPWD
magazine
Austin-based caver Rae Nadler-Olenick has written another interesting article
for the Texas Parks and Wildlife magazine. The article in the Dec
2011 issue is titled "Deep, Dark and Dangerous" and describes the exploration
of Goodenough Spring, the 3rd largest spring in Texas with a
discharge of 100 to 200 cubic ft per second. The entrance was inundated by
Lake Amistad (on the Rio Grande in Val Verde County near Del Rio,
southwest Texas) in 1968 and is 165 ft below the surface of the water. In the
early to mid- 1990s, Dallas based diver R.D. Milhollin, with Ise
Kalsi, Terry Scoggins, and Robert Laird were the first to successfully overcome
the very formidable challenges of entering the cave and mapping
it to a gravel-filled passage at -200 ft. Exploration resumed in 2000 by the
Houston-based Goodenough Springs Exploration Project, whose
divers received the NSS Cave Diving Section's Exploration Award in 2009 for
making the deepest cave dive in the U.S. They reached -515 ft, and
IT GOES. The article includes lots of photos, and a list of "Five rules for
cave diving", and "Four stages of cave diving certification".
The same issue has a photo essay on the drought and recent wildfires in Texas.
TPWD magazine sells for $3.95 at stores; an annual subscription
is only $12 for 10 issues (reduced from 12 issues because of budget cutbacks).
Logan
TPWD Archeology Survey Team, Austin
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--- Begin Message ---
Cavers - This thread was initially posted by Matt Skeels of the Oregon High
Desert Grotto.
http://forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?f=1
<http://forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13155> &t=13155
_____
From: nssw...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Steven Johnson
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 4:14 PM
To: Diablo Grotto; SFBC; MLG; nssw...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [NSSwest] "Wikipedia poised to list coordinates for U.S. cave
articles"
Seen on cavechat:
http://forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?f=1
<http://forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13155> &t=13155
"I'm an editor of dozens of articles at Wikipedia and a caver too.
Naturally, I am involved with the debate over cave articles at Wikipedia.
And I'm here to tell you why the National Speleological Society and it's
members should be more involved at the discussions over there.
1. Wikipedia is often one of the first results in any Google search. So its
information is instantly accessible and at the forefront.
2. Wikipedia is beginning to standardize its infobox (a template detailing
facts) on caves. That means they want to make it uniform across the board
that all cave articles have a coordinate field.
Here's my experience so far. Wikipedia does not like censorship nor does it
"cater" to "special groups" and their needs. Meanwhile they ignore that they
are a special group with default needs and censor the private information of
famous people. So they see that a cave infobox should not exclude the
coordinate field. The conflict is, until recently, the Cave infobox on
Wikipedia did not have a coordinate field. European (specifically the United
Kingdom) editors are naturally more open about their cave locations because
their culture is different, so they made a U.K. specific cave infobox with
coordinates. When it came for a consensus on Wikipedia, they talked about
making the U.K. infobox the worldwide standard, and U.S. the exception.
Which makes sense.
However! As it is now, the infobox making an exception for the U.S. caves
could be overturned at anytime and merged with the previously named U.K.
Cave infobox. Making it so that coordinates could be on any cave article.
>From all my past experience at Wikipedia, I can tell you this is very likely
what's going to happen when it becomes a topic for Wikipedia editors and
admins.
A few notes. Having coordinates for cave parks and commercial caves is not a
problem. But there are cave articles out there that are not commercial.
Privately held caves, sensitive eco-system caves, et al., have articles on
Wikipedia too. Because American culture does not respect mother nature very
well, this could prove disastrous for caves! Any one of you cavers familiar
with cave cleanups knows the impact human visitation has on these
ecosystems. Your cleanup work will only grow exponentially once a coordinate
is listed for previously undisclosed caves. It needs to be established that
there must be exceptions to what will be uniform measures to include a
coordinate field for all caves. A coordinate field only invites coordinates
to be added, and wikipedia bots can be tasked to fill in this information if
it exists online. So it's not very hard to do!
So my suggestion to you cavers: Spread the word that more attention needs to
be placed on Wikipedia. Register and go to these pages (and check the star
at the top so you can get updates on any changes):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Caves> ... ject_Caves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Caves> ...
ject_Caves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_cave
and you will probably eventually want to keep an eye on these pages too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Geographical_coordinates
> ... oordinates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_caves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_caves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ca
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_caves_in_the_United_States> ...
ted_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedian_cavers (not too many!)
You will also want to search for Wikipedia pages on any local caves in your
area and watch those pages too (check the star at the top of those pages) so
you can keep an eye on sensitive caves in your area, if there are any.
If you want to see how well I faired (not so good and for better or worse)
against the Wikipideans at large, read the lengthy discussion here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2011_No
vember_22> ... ovember_22"
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http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nbc-news-channel/45435212#45435212
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Outstanding story!
Thanks for sharing!
This is the kind of kid that could really benefit from a research grant!
-----Original Message-----
From: R D Milhollin <rdmilhol...@yahoo.com>
To: Texascavers List <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Cc: Peter Youngbaer <wnsliai...@caves.org>
Sent: Sun, Nov 27, 2011 7:22 am
Subject: [Texascavers] NBC News Item about Young WNS Researcher
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nbc-news-channel/45435212#45435212
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The bat population in the Bulgarian Devetashka Cave, a key spot for
spending the winter season, has been reduced to 1/4 by the recent
filming of the blockbuster "Expendables 2", according to a Bulgarian
zoologist.
"The shooting of the movie harms the bat habitat - with the placement of
props, the cutting down of vegetation, as well as disturbance by the
presence of large numbers of people and the noise they make," said
Nikolay Simov from the Center for Bat Studies and Protection at the
Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, as cited by the Focus news agency.
A special check conducted after the session showed that at present there
are some 8,000 in Devetashka Cave, while last year they were 30,000,
said Simov for Bulgarian Focus News Agency.
"What is even more alarming for us is that the legal regulations were
not respected. The regional environmental inspectorate has no authority
to give a permit for filming in this protected area," said Simov.
"The filming was in direct breach of the Bulgarian Law on Biological
Diversity, which prohibits disturbing and chasing away protected
species," specified he.
Simov added that the shooting was also in breach of the Agreement on the
Conservation of Populations of European Bats.
The researcher said he has been alarmed by environmentalists that
another movie production is planning to come to Devetashka, and he vowed
to press the case against that.
Earlier in November environmentalists protested against the planned
filming of "Expendables 2" in the cave, saying this will disturb and
chase away the animals.
The coming of an all-star team, including Sylvester Stallone, Bruce
Willis, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Chuck Norris, has been made somewhat
of a media sensation in Bulgaria.
At the same time, the Devetashka Cave in central northern Bulgaria,
Lovech Region, is considered one of the most important bat habitats in
Europe.
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I am still in need of one or two additional skilled sketchers to lead
survey teams this weekend during the Punkin Cave survey expedition. You
don't have to be familiar with the cave, as there are plenty of people
on the trip that can get you to virgin leads in Punkin. But you do have
to be vertically competent and have your own gear, and be willing to
survey for about seven or eight hours in fairly cold, breezy conditions.
The passages are boneyard maze, and not for beginning sketchers. Reply
offlist if interested and available.
Crash
jkenn...@batcon.org
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