texascavers Digest 1 Oct 2011 16:56:35 -0000 Issue 1401
Topics (messages 18664 through 18677):
Re: Schelten's take and other opinions
18664 by: David
Excellent grotto meeting program
18665 by: Speleosteele.aol.com
18674 by: Mark Minton
A google earth alternative
18666 by: BMorgan994.aol.com
18667 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
18669 by: caverarch
S.P.R.A.T.
18668 by: Julia Germany
$1 Protects the Water Supply of 40 Million Americans
18670 by: George Veni
Re: NSS Headquarters: John Schelten's Take
18671 by: Alex Sproul
Re: Retractable lanyard recall
18672 by: Louise Power
Lost souls
18673 by: Ron Ralph
great photos
18675 by: Mixon Bill
glacier caving video
18676 by: Mixon Bill
Avery Ranch Panoramic View
18677 by: Lyndon Tiu
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--- Begin Message ---
A month ago, I posted a negative statement about the direction the NSS
was taking.
Mr. Schelten's letter posted yesterday, voiced some of the same
concerns but in a different language.
My take is,
the NSS should NOT buy any blank building property unless the deal is simply
too awesome to turn down.
I have only taken one economics class in college, but I don't see
anything going on in
our economy to make it improve. I only see things that indicate it
is going to get
worse. A handful of NSS members are going to struggle to survive
in the coming years.
They are going to have less resources to help the NSS with it's
financial burdens. Many of
the dedicated old-timers, are going to be in nursing homes or worse.
I do agree with Mr. Schelten, that initial risk of buying property is
much lower than
buying the temple. However, I feel that risk is still too high.
It is often better to down-size and re-assess the market. That is what every
business in America has to do to survive. I have been
self-employed for 13 years,
and have had to operate on a budget that all accountants would claim is
impossible.
The current youth that may be potential NSS members someday, are going to
be less interested in caving, than the same market group was 10 years
ago. This opinion,
is in part due to the competition caving has with so many other
activities. Youth today like video games,
and video games are about to become even more addictive. When the
3D iPad tablet hits the
market in 5 years or so, the youth are going to spend every financial
resource they have to
get their hands on one, and spend all their spare time trying to
master it. If you don't believe me,
go take a look at some of the 3D games already available on the new LG
Thrill cell-phone.
Once Facebook Timeline goes 3D in about 10 years, the world we know
today will most likely
be irrelevant, in a manner like Mayberry is to today's youth.
[ Side note: A far-fetched worst-case scenario view was expressed a
few months ago by the
Locklear impersonator claiming to be from the future. In that
bizarre abstract, he or she suggested
young people growing up in an environment saturated by Facebook may
de-evolve into a mutated
human sub-species. ( That was not me, by the way ). Let's hope
that doesn't happen. But
still, any potential scenario should be taken into consideration when
planning for the long-term future
of the NSS headquarters. ]
And to add to the bleak outlook,
the unexpected effects from outside forces, like the WNS problem,
demographic changes
in population, cave closures, the rising cost of living, $ 5 a gallon
gas, global warming, national
political policy, caring for the baby boomer generation, etc. are not
going to help the NSS in the
era where the NSS would be operating the proposed headquarters.
The NSS must NOW hunker-down and take a survival approach to its
economic strategy.
They need a written plan for a worst-case scenario, and hope for better.
But not all is bad,
We won't be eating crackers made of Soylent Green this century, and
there will be lots of good things in the pipe-line
for our kids and grand-kids to come to be optimistic about living.
More cavers may own caves. LED lights and battery
technology will allow us to go caving for days underground on the same
charge. Some tablet apps
will make it easier to do caving related things, or at least more fun
to be an armchair caver. We will be able to watch
our caving videos in HD on an 92 inch screen, if not bigger.
David Locklear
NSS # 27639
Independent caver in Fort Bend County, Texas
Ref:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayberry
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/09/lg-thrill-4g-review/
http://www.amazon.com/Mitsubishi-WD-92840-92-Inch-1080p-Projection/dp/B004ZL2O9U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1317279212&sr=8-1
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Last night at the DFW Grotto meeting we watched a caving video from Italy,
"L'Abisso (The Abyss)": In the fall of 2004, Italian cavers discovered an
impressive new branch in the Spluga della Preta Abyss, long known as the
deepest cave in the world, and still the deepest in Italy.
I think it's my favorite caving movie of all time. The room was silent and
we were all spellbound for an hour. We didn't finish seeing it and will
need to see the end next month.
I've seen most movies made about caving, and I've helped make a couple, but
I cannot recall one as good as this one.
Kudos to grotto vice chairman in charge of programs Ed Goff. You
certainly scored one this time.
Bill Steele
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At Bill's request, I'm sending a minor correction to his
recent post about Spluga della Preta. The 2004 discovery did not
increase the depth of the cave. Furthermore Spluga della Preta has
never been the deepest known cave in the world. At one time a depth
of 985 m was claimed, but it was later pushed back to 875 m (or 877
m, depending on where you read it) by a more accurate survey. Here's
a web site about the cave (mostly in
Italian): <http://www.splugadellapreta.it/main.html>. Italy has
several caves over 1000 meters deep, the deepest at present being
Abisso Paolo Roversi at 1350 m, but that's only 20th on the world
list! Spluga della Preta is currently
140th. <http://www.caverbob.com/wdeep.htm>
Mark Minton
At 08:06 AM 9/29/2011, speleoste...@aol.com wrote:
Last night at the DFW Grotto meeting we watched a caving video from
Italy, "L'Abisso (The Abyss)": In the fall of 2004, Italian cavers
discovered an impressive new branch in the Spluga della Preta Abyss,
long known as the deepest cave in the world, and still the deepest in Italy.
I think it's my favorite caving movie of all time. The room was
silent and we were all spellbound for an hour. We didn't finish
seeing it and will need to see the end next month.
I've seen most movies made about caving, and I've helped make a
couple, but I cannot recall one as good as this one.
Kudos to grotto vice chairman in charge of programs Ed Goff. You
certainly scored one this time.
Bill Steele
Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have you ever tried AcmeMapper 2.0? It uses google earth imagery, but also
offers terrain worldwide and topo in the US, all of which can be easily
toggeled while retaining scale, a super simple one button solution. You don't
even need to download the program to your computer, it just opens up and
there it is!
I have found the terrain feature to be a very useful tool for envisioning
large landforms, but as you zoom in you will see that the information is
often wrong, place names incorrect, rivers that are not in their river
valleys, etc, so just don't get hung up on the details.
For example, I am planning a trip to Laos so the first thing I did was to
look at the satellite image of the northern half of the country to see which
parts are dark green (the whole country is dark green in contrast with all
its overpopulated neighbors!) Then I toggled to terrain to discover that
the entire northern half of the country is completely covered in mountains,
there isn't a single flat spot other than narrow river valleys and an odd
place called the Plain of Jars. None of that told me where the karst was so
I zoomed in a bit and immediately noticed textural differences such as a
cluster of tall irregular mountains that emerged from the surrounding
landscape and was bisected by the Nam Ou river. I zoomed in to discover
spectacular karst peaks on either side of a stunning gorge. I zoomed in
further to
see a tiny riverside village named Muang Ngoi Neua. I googled it up to
discover that this tiny village which is far from any road, electricity, or
central authority is hippie/backpacker/caver heaven! The few people who live
there know it is a beautiful place so aside from subsistence rice farming the
entire local economy is devoted to hedonism and taking people such as me to
caves, springs and hilltribe villages. Without the terrain feature on Acme
Mapper I would never have know about this wonderful place!
Sleaze
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I dinked around with NASA's WORLD WIND a number of years ago. Another google earth alternative.. not sure how well supported it is these days.
Have you ever tried AcmeMapper 2.0? It uses google earth imagery, but also offers terrain worldwide and topo in the US, all of which can be easily toggeled while retaining scale, a super simple one button solution. You don't even need to download the program to your computer, it just opens up and there it is!
I have found the terrain feature to be a very useful tool for envisioning large landforms, but as you zoom in you will see that the information is often wrong, place names incorrect, rivers that are not in their river valleys, etc, so just don't get hung up on the details.
For example, I am planning a trip to Laos so the first thing I did was to look at the satellite image of the northern half of the country to see which parts are dark green (the whole country is dark green in contrast with all its overpopulated neighbors!) Then I toggled to terrain to discover that the entire northern half of the country is completely covered in mountains, there isn't a single flat spot other than narrow river valleys and an odd place called the Plain of Jars. None of that told me where the karst was so I zoomed in a bit and immediately noticed textural differences such as a cluster of tall irregular mountains that emerged from the surrounding landscape and was bisected by the Nam Ou river. I zoomed in to discover spectacular karst peaks on either side of a stunning gorge. I zoomed in further to see a tiny riverside village named Muang Ngoi Neua. I googled it up to discover that this tiny village which is far from any road, electricity, or central authority is hippie/backpacker/caver heaven! The few people who live there know it is a beautiful place so aside from subsistence rice farming the entire local economy is devoted to hedonism and taking people such as me to caves, springs and hilltribe villages. Without the terrain feature on Acme Mapper I would never have know about this wonderful place!
Sleaze
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Last updated in July 2011, so not abandoned...
-----Original Message-----
From: tbsamsel <tbsam...@verizon.net>
To: BMorgan994 <bmorgan...@aol.com>
Cc: texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:34 am
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] A google earth alternative
I dinked around with NASA's WORLD WIND a number of years ago. Another google
earth alternative.. not sure how well supported it is these days.
http://worldwind.arc.nasa.gov/java/
Sep 29, 2011 09:06:05 AM, bmorgan...@aol.com wrote:
Have you ever tried AcmeMapper 2.0? It uses google earth imagery, but also
offers terrain worldwide and topo in the US, all of which can be easily
toggeled while retaining scale, a super simple one button solution. You don't
even need to download the program to your computer, it just opens up and there
it is!
I have found the terrain feature to be a very useful tool for envisioning large
landforms, but as you zoom in you will see that the information is often wrong,
place names incorrect, rivers that are not in their river valleys, etc, so just
don't get hung up on the details.
For example, I am planning a trip to Laos so the first thing I did was to look
at the satellite image of the northern half of the country to see which parts
are dark green (the whole country is dark green in contrast with all its
overpopulated neighbors!) Then I toggled to terrain to discover that the entire
northern half of the country is completely covered in mountains, there isn't a
single flat spot other than narrow river valleys and an odd place called the
Plain of Jars. None of that told me where the karst was so I zoomed in a bit
and immediately noticed textural differences such as a cluster of tall
irregular mountains that emerged from the surrounding landscape and was
bisected by the Nam Ou river. I zoomed in to discover spectacular karst peaks
on either side of a stunning gorge. I zoomed in further to see a tiny riverside
village named Muang Ngoi Neua. I googled it up to discover that this tiny
village which is far from any road, electricity, or central authority is
hippie/backpacker/caver heaven! The few people who live there know it is a
beautiful place so aside from subsistence rice farming the entire local economy
is devoted to hedonism and taking people such as me to caves, springs and
hilltribe villages. Without the terrain feature on Acme Mapper I would never
have know about this wonderful place!
Sleaze
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While reading this AP article: Engineer: Monument rappel inspection a career
high ( http://galvestondailynews.com/ap/863a30/ )
I learned about S.P.R.A.T. - The Society of Professional Rope Access
Technicians (SPRAT®) based in the United States, dedicated to promoting the
safe development of industrial rope access standards in the US, Canada, Mexico
and beyond.
http://www.sprat.org/
Inner Mountain Outfitters, OnRope1 and Petzl, among others, are members.
julia
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dear Friends,
The National Cave and Karst Research Institute is the focus today at the
Philanthroper website. Every day Philanthroper highlights a different
non-profit organization and uses the philosophy that a lot of small
contributions can make a world of difference. For the next 19 hours and 35
minutes (as I type this) people can visit Philanthroper and donate as little
$1 and no more than $10 to NCKRI. Philanthroper is totally philanthropic
about this and takes no money from any of the donations. And all donations
NCKRI receives go directly toward cave and karst research, education,
management, archiving of data, and collaborating to advance all of those
causes. Contributions through Philanthroper have recently been setting new
records in donations and I've love to see another set today for NCKRI. I've
been watching the tally steadily climb as I've written this message. Check
it out:
https://philanthroper.com/deals/national-cave-and-karst-research-institute#/
Many thanks,
George
P.S.: Please feel free to share this message with others.
***************************
George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 413-383-2276
gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Scheltens didn't even have the balls to stir up his own trouble.
He asked Bob Hoke, who posted John's rant to the PSC list, and
then someone cross-posted it to the VAR-List, and then RD -- for
reasons unexplained -- felt it should be shared with the Texicans.
Finally John Tudek posted it to CaveChat for everyone to fuss over.
The origin of all this is that the NSS Executive Committee declined
to allow it to be printed in the NSS News, because it a) was far too
long, b) contained many factual errors, c) would have required even
more space to refute, and d) NSS policy (Appendix AZ) requires
that the President review and approve all public statements to
ensure they are:
o Factual in nature;
o Reasonably and accurately represent society business;
o Not disparaging or ridiculing any individual or group;
o Not including confidential NSS material.
This letter failed on at least 3 of those counts.
But don't take my word for any of that. I invite your attention to the
CaveChat thread <http://tinyurl.com/6fyahwm>, where at least two
NSS directors have refuted every point of Scheltens' letter, most
with his own statements.
But please let's refrain from continuing either thread; they should
die a quick death. This is all ground that's already been well
plowed. The HQ Commission did due diligence, considered all
facts and positions, and made a recommendation which was
unanimous, save for Chairman John Scheltens. The NSS Board
considered that report, made a decision, and plans are moving
forward. No good can come of rehashing it all. We need to be
team players and support the leaders we elected.
Alex
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If any of you use these lanyards, please note below.
Louise
From: cpo...@blm.gov
To: power_lou...@hotmail.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 14:37:21 -0600
Subject: FW: Retractable lanyard recall
From: Gonzales, Timothy M
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:25 PM
To: BLM_OR_MD_ALL
Subject: FW: Retractable lanyard recall If any of you have or use this lanyard,
please note the RECALL below. Thanks. Tim GonzalesSafety & Occupational Health
SpecialistMedford BLM541-618-2315c. 541-261-0059 From: Colombe, Michael C
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 7:24 AM
To: Blythe, Philip N; Bush, William; Colombe, Michael C; Cook, William A;
Gammon, Harold P; Gonzales, Timothy M; Grimes, Jeanne M; Kincaid, David L;
Mican, Stacy C; Petty, John P; Wagner, Kipp A; Williams, Michael
Subject: Retractable lanyard recall FYI Respectfully, Michael C. ColombeU.S.
Bureau of Land ManagementOR/WA State Safety OfficeOffice: 503-808-6249Fax:
503-808-6421 Please share with you
staff.http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/PPESafetySolutions/PPESafety/?PC_7_RJH9U52300EKD0I1JB7QPI0MH4_assetId=1273695069356Fall
Protection Product Recall / Stop Use Notice3M™ G-Series Retractable Lanyard
Models:
GW-7, GW-11, GW-7-0241A, GW-7-0241H, GW-11-0241A, GW-11-0241H, GW-11NS, DLGW-7,
DLGW-7-0241A and DLGW-11-0241A In an effort to ensure that 3M provides our
customers with quality products and services, we have recently completed an
analysis of GW-7 and GW-11 Series Self-Retracting Lanyards that were returned
to us. We have identified a limited number of these units which do not properly
achieve lock up during the user pre-inspection pull test on the webbing
lifeline (as required by the User Instructions and OSHA regulations).As a
result, 3M requests that you immediately remove from service and quarantine all
models of G-Series Self-Retracting Lanyards within your inventory. G-Series
model numbers are provided at the top of this announcement for reference.We
request that the following steps be implemented: 1. Immediately stop
use and quarantine all inventory of G-Series products. 2. Contact Ray
Mann, 3M Fall Protection Technical Service, at 704-743-2406 for product return
information. 3M remains committed to providing quality products and services to
our customers. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this situation may
cause you.Thank you for your continued support and use of 3M products and
services.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cavers,
The Texas Cave Management Association is trying to locate two members: Mark
Lee from Houston and Jim Wolff from San Marcos. Any contact information
would be appreciated.
Ron Ralph
Database Committee
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--- Begin Message ---
There's a wonderful collection of cave photographs, mostly closeups of
helictites and anthodites, at http://www.flickr.com/photos/rupo/sets/72157627012803831/show/
. A post to the Tlamaqui e-mail list by Natalia Morata called this to
my attention. -- Mixon
----------------------------------------
Education is what is left when what has been learnt has been forgotten.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great video of glacier caves: www.vimeo.com/10010891 -- Mixon
----------------------------------------
Education is what is left when what has been learnt has been forgotten.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On September 18, 2011, photographer Benedict Kim, Eunice Kim and Mike
Walsh went to Avery Ranch Cave to photograph the cave.
See the great new Avery Ranch Cave Panoramic View:
http://travel-informed.com/panos/tcc360v28/popup.html
Also, go to the Texas Cave Conservancy web site and look under TCC News.
http://texascaves.org/
While there, check our new SEARCH link.
This is one reason that we have had over 375,000 visits since the new
web site went on line in April 2010. We are also working on obtaining
a clear copy of “The Caves of Cedar Park” to add to our website.
Until then, check it out at YouTube “The Caves of Cedar Park. The TCC
has a large number of NSS News and the Texas Caver available for free.
If you are interested, contact us and we will bring them to the Texas
Caver’s Reunion.
tcc-ca...@austin.rr.com
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