texascavers Digest 20 Jun 2011 21:14:09 -0000 Issue 1339
Topics (messages 18088 through 18102):
Re: cave pics
18088 by: Alex Sproul
Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams 3D
18089 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
Real time stream Gages to be Discontinued Due to Proposed Funding Cuts
18090 by: Geary Schindel
18091 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com
18092 by: Geary Schindel
18095 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
Re: NSS caving related
18093 by: Fritz Holt
18096 by: Rod Goke
18097 by: Fritz Holt
18098 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com
18099 by: Geary Schindel
18100 by: Gary Moss
18101 by: Rod Goke
18102 by: Allan B. Cobb
Re:2
18094 by: Scott Boyd
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--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I know Nathan. He's a Huntsville Grotto member and
volunteers at the NSS Office. Great guy and an outstanding
photographer.
Ironically, a week ago Friday, while Nathan was at the SERA Cave
Carnival, his family (wife, 2 boys, and grandmother-in-law) were in
a horrendous car crash near Birmingham. All were flown to
intensive care in B'ham. The rest were released the next day, but
his wife is still in bad shape, with multiple breaks to both legs.
Keep them all in your thoughts.
Alex
> A friend of mine in Birmingham, a photographer but not a caver, sent
> me this Flickr link:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/realms_of_reality/
>
> Does anyone know Nathan Williams? He does some very good cave
> photography. My wife Diane says that she remembers going through
> Tumbling Rock cave. It is a long series of breakdown mountains.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw this today in Kansas City. Great photography, but the albino crocodiles postscript was really goofy.The sound track was more new agey than it needed to be.
Did anyone else note that only the French lady cavers took their helmets off and had their coifs all arranged for their in-cave interviews? Zut alors!
T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Folks,
It depends upon the program that funds the gauges. Some gauges are covered
completely under federal funds and with budget cuts coming, I think the USGS
has to decide whether they want to cut services or personnel or both.
Note that there were no gauges slated for removal in the Edwards Aquifer
Authority region. That is because most of those are paid for with cooperative
money - the Edwards Aquifer Authority bill for having the USGS run
approximately 30 gauges is more than $300,000 per year. In addition, the USGS
kicks in some cooperative money for the system. This includes the gauges at
San Marcos, Comal, San Pedro, San Antonio, Hueco, and Leona springs as well as
two gauges on each of the upstream portions of the major rivers that cross the
Edwards limestone in the recharge zone.
Geary
Geary M. Schindel, P.G.
Chief Technical Officer
EDWARDS AQUIFER
A U T H O R I T Y
1615 N. ST. MARY'S STREET
SAN ANTONIO, TX 78215
(210) 222.2204 OFFICE
(210) 299.5262 FAX
(210) 326.1576 MOBILE
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there any water to measure there, Geary?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Geary Schindel [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:46 AM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] Real time stream Gages to be Discontinued Due to
Proposed Funding Cuts
Folks,
It depends upon the program that funds the gauges. Some gauges are covered
completely under federal funds and with budget cuts coming, I think the USGS
has to decide whether they want to cut services or personnel or both.
Note that there were no gauges slated for removal in the Edwards Aquifer
Authority region. That is because most of those are paid for with cooperative
money - the Edwards Aquifer Authority bill for having the USGS run
approximately 30 gauges is more than $300,000 per year. In addition, the USGS
kicks in some cooperative money for the system. This includes the gauges at
San Marcos, Comal, San Pedro, San Antonio, Hueco, and Leona springs as well as
two gauges on each of the upstream portions of the major rivers that cross the
Edwards limestone in the recharge zone.
Geary
Geary M. Schindel, P.G.
Chief Technical Officer
EDWARDS AQUIFER
A U T H O R I T Y
1615 N. ST. MARY'S STREET
SAN ANTONIO, TX 78215
(210) 222.2204 OFFICE
(210) 299.5262 FAX
(210) 326.1576 MOBILE
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--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
Good question, there is a little bit of water in the Guadaulpe River but many
of the creeks and major rivers are approaching record lows.
Someone else asked why the gauges are so expensive. Most of the gauges are
near real time and require maintenance, require long travel times to visit the
stations, many are not be in ideal locations because of access issues, each
site requires the development of a rating curve which means going out and
calibrating the instruments by manually measuring the streams at regular
intervals, each site has to have a satellite uplink, the USGS must maintain a
stock of expensive replacement equipment to replace lost or stolen or damaged
equipment (floods happen as well as people stealing or shooting solar panels),
processing of the data though Denver which includes automation of the web pages
to receive all of the data for each site, etc. Oh yeah, water in the river
also helps.
For example, we use the USGS gauges at Comal Springs and San Marcos springs to
initiate Critical Period restrictions. These discharge numbers, along with
water level numbers are reported on our web page daily and also commonly
reported on local news. FYI, J-17, the index well just passed another
threshold today of 640.0 ft msl. Today it is at 639.9 ft msl. When the 10 day
average water level for J-17 drops below 640.0, we will go in to Stage III
drought restrictions.
The stream gauges we use in the area are very important to the region.
However, collecting this data isn't easy or cheap. I understand that the Corps
of Engineers, which was a major funder of the USGS, has had significant budget
cuts and while it won't affect our area (because we fund our gauges), it will
impact the State for other non-locally funded gauges.
The government is trying to decrease costs by eliminating services. This
requires tough choices about what to fund and what to cut on a national,
regional, state, and local level.
Geary
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:44 AM
To: Geary Schindel; Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Real time stream Gages to be Discontinued Due to
Proposed Funding Cuts
Is there any water to measure there, Geary?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Geary Schindel [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:46 AM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] Real time stream Gages to be Discontinued Due to
Proposed Funding Cuts
Folks,
It depends upon the program that funds the gauges. Some gauges are covered
completely under federal funds and with budget cuts coming, I think the USGS
has to decide whether they want to cut services or personnel or both.
Note that there were no gauges slated for removal in the Edwards Aquifer
Authority region. That is because most of those are paid for with cooperative
money - the Edwards Aquifer Authority bill for having the USGS run
approximately 30 gauges is more than $300,000 per year. In addition, the USGS
kicks in some cooperative money for the system. This includes the gauges at
San Marcos, Comal, San Pedro, San Antonio, Hueco, and Leona springs as well as
two gauges on each of the upstream portions of the major rivers that cross the
Edwards limestone in the recharge zone.
Geary
Geary M. Schindel, P.G.
Chief Technical Officer
EDWARDS AQUIFER
A U T H O R I T Y
1615 N. ST. MARY'S STREET
SAN ANTONIO, TX 78215
(210) 222.2204 OFFICE
(210) 299.5262 FAX
(210) 326.1576 MOBILE
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--- Begin Message ---
We aren't just talking about Texas, Mark.. I'm in Kansas City and there's a flood occurring upstream.
Mark,
Good question, there is a little bit of water in the Guadaulpe River but many of the creeks and major rivers are approaching record lows.
Someone else asked why the gauges are so expensive. Most of the gauges are near real time and require maintenance, require long travel times to visit the stations, many are not be in ideal locations because of access issues, each site requires the development of a rating curve which means going out and calibrating the instruments by manually measuring the streams at regular intervals, each site has to have a satellite uplink, the USGS must maintain a stock of expensive replacement equipment to replace lost or stolen or damaged equipment (floods happen as well as people stealing or shooting solar panels), processing of the data though Denver which includes automation of the web pages to receive all of the data for each site, etc. Oh yeah, water in the river also helps.
For example, we use the USGS gauges at Comal Springs and San Marcos springs to initiate Critical Period restrictions. These discharge numbers, along with water level numbers are reported on our web page daily and also commonly reported on local news. FYI, J-17, the index well just passed another threshold today of 640.0 ft msl. Today it is at 639.9 ft msl. When the 10 day average water level for J-17 drops below 640.0, we will go in to Stage III drought restrictions.
The stream gauges we use in the area are very important to the region. However, collecting this data isn't easy or cheap. I understand that the Corps of Engineers, which was a major funder of the USGS, has had significant budget cuts and while it won't affect our area (because we fund our gauges), it will impact the State for other non-locally funded gauges.
The government is trying to decrease costs by eliminating services. This requires tough choices about what to fund and what to cut on a national, regional, state, and local level.
Geary
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:44 AM
To: Geary Schindel; Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Real time stream Gages to be Discontinued Due to Proposed Funding Cuts
Is there any water to measure there, Geary?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Geary Schindel [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:46 AM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] Real time stream Gages to be Discontinued Due to Proposed Funding Cuts
Folks,
It depends upon the program that funds the gauges. Some gauges are covered completely under federal funds and with budget cuts coming, I think the USGS has to decide whether they want to cut services or personnel or both.
Note that there were no gauges slated for removal in the Edwards Aquifer Authority region. That is because most of those are paid for with cooperative money - the Edwards Aquifer Authority bill for having the USGS run approximately 30 gauges is more than $300,000 per year. In addition, the USGS kicks in some cooperative money for the system. This includes the gauges at San Marcos, Comal, San Pedro, San Antonio, Hueco, and Leona springs as well as two gauges on each of the upstream portions of the major rivers that cross the Edwards limestone in the recharge zone.
Geary
Geary M. Schindel, P.G.
Chief Technical Officer
EDWARDS AQUIFER
A U T H O R I T Y
1615 N. ST. MARY'S STREET
SAN ANTONIO, TX 78215
(210) 222.2204 OFFICE
(210) 299.5262 FAX
(210) 326.1576 MOBILE
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
David and other interested parties,
The Houston area has a host of opportunities for vacationers and tourists.
However, if the Board of Governors are cavers, it would seem logical that the
meeting be held in Austin which is much closer to some nice caves that may
still be accessed. Some of the out of state visitors may want to visit a cave
or two while in Texas. There are enough influential cavers in Austin that would
probably volunteer to lead several trips. Where have you been, David? Has your
computer been on the fritz?
Fritz
-----Original Message-----
From: David [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:53 AM
To: Clint Ladd; Lyndon Tiu; Fritz Holt; Syd Formanek; Dorothy Mladenka;
[email protected]; hose; Keith Goggin; Lisa Goggin; David Locklear; Sheryl
Rieck; Charles Fromen
Subject: NSS caving related
Dear caving friends,
The National Speleological Society holds its annual Board of Governors
meeting at different places each
year.
They are quickly searching for a place for the fall 2011 meeting.
My good caving friend, RD Milhollin, of Dallas, is ramrodding the
planning committee to get the meeting in Texas.
He has possibly narrowed down to locations.
1 ) Austin
2 ) Northeast Houston ( near Intercontinental Airport )
I believe they a commitment from the host by the end of the NSS
Convention which means in less than
a month.
I would be willing to volunteer to meet people at the airport and
drive them to their hotels and the meeting place.
I would be willing to search for a meeting room.
But that is about all I think I can volunteer for.
I have serious doubts that the rest of the cavers in Texas would want
to drive to northeast Houston. But the people
flying in from the rest of the country would find that location
convenient. But the purpose of the NSS holding in places
like Houston, is to encourage NSS participation from different regions.
Lake Houston State Park is only 30 minutes northeast of the airport,
and the NSS could probably afford to rent all
the facilities there, and then the guest would not have to get a hotel.
David Locklear
NSS 27639
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When during fall 2011 does the BOG meeting need to be scheduled? Notice that
TCR 2011 is scheduled Oct. 14--16 at a location slightly west of Austin. Would
it be practical to schedule the BOG meting close enough to that date so that
people from out of state could attend both events during the same trip if they
felt like spending more time here?
Rod
-----Original Message-----
>From: Fritz Holt <[email protected]>
>Sent: Jun 20, 2011 11:24 AM
>To: 'David' <[email protected]>, Clint Ladd <[email protected]>,
>Lyndon Tiu <[email protected]>, Syd Formanek <[email protected]>, Dorothy
>Mladenka <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, hose
><[email protected]>, Keith Goggin <[email protected]>, Lisa Goggin
><[email protected]>, Sheryl Rieck <[email protected]>, Charles Fromen
><[email protected]>, Texas Cavers <[email protected]>
>Subject: [Texascavers] RE: NSS caving related
>
>David and other interested parties,
>
>The Houston area has a host of opportunities for vacationers and tourists.
>However, if the Board of Governors are cavers, it would seem logical that the
>meeting be held in Austin which is much closer to some nice caves that may
>still be accessed. Some of the out of state visitors may want to visit a cave
>or two while in Texas. There are enough influential cavers in Austin that
>would probably volunteer to lead several trips. Where have you been, David?
>Has your computer been on the fritz?
>
>Fritz
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: David [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:53 AM
>To: Clint Ladd; Lyndon Tiu; Fritz Holt; Syd Formanek; Dorothy Mladenka;
>[email protected]; hose; Keith Goggin; Lisa Goggin; David Locklear; Sheryl
>Rieck; Charles Fromen
>Subject: NSS caving related
>
>Dear caving friends,
>
>The National Speleological Society holds its annual Board of Governors
>meeting at different places each
>year.
>
>They are quickly searching for a place for the fall 2011 meeting.
>
>My good caving friend, RD Milhollin, of Dallas, is ramrodding the
>planning committee to get the meeting in Texas.
>
>He has possibly narrowed down to locations.
>
>1 ) Austin
>
>2 ) Northeast Houston ( near Intercontinental Airport )
>
>I believe they a commitment from the host by the end of the NSS
>Convention which means in less than
>a month.
>
>I would be willing to volunteer to meet people at the airport and
>drive them to their hotels and the meeting place.
>
>I would be willing to search for a meeting room.
>
>But that is about all I think I can volunteer for.
>
>
>I have serious doubts that the rest of the cavers in Texas would want
>to drive to northeast Houston. But the people
>flying in from the rest of the country would find that location
>convenient. But the purpose of the NSS holding in places
>like Houston, is to encourage NSS participation from different regions.
>
>Lake Houston State Park is only 30 minutes northeast of the airport,
>and the NSS could probably afford to rent all
>the facilities there, and then the guest would not have to get a hotel.
>
>David Locklear
>NSS 27639
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is a good question for someone other than me as I know nothing about it
and was only responding to David's post.
Fritz
-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Goke [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 2:36 PM
To: Fritz Holt; 'David'; Clint Ladd; Lyndon Tiu; Syd Formanek; Dorothy
Mladenka; [email protected]; hose; Keith Goggin; Lisa Goggin; Sheryl Rieck;
Charles Fromen; Texas Cavers
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: NSS caving related
When during fall 2011 does the BOG meeting need to be scheduled? Notice that
TCR 2011 is scheduled Oct. 14--16 at a location slightly west of Austin. Would
it be practical to schedule the BOG meting close enough to that date so that
people from out of state could attend both events during the same trip if they
felt like spending more time here?
Rod
-----Original Message-----
>From: Fritz Holt <[email protected]>
>Sent: Jun 20, 2011 11:24 AM
>To: 'David' <[email protected]>, Clint Ladd <[email protected]>,
>Lyndon Tiu <[email protected]>, Syd Formanek <[email protected]>, Dorothy
>Mladenka <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, hose
><[email protected]>, Keith Goggin <[email protected]>, Lisa Goggin
><[email protected]>, Sheryl Rieck <[email protected]>, Charles Fromen
><[email protected]>, Texas Cavers <[email protected]>
>Subject: [Texascavers] RE: NSS caving related
>
>David and other interested parties,
>
>The Houston area has a host of opportunities for vacationers and tourists.
>However, if the Board of Governors are cavers, it would seem logical that the
>meeting be held in Austin which is much closer to some nice caves that may
>still be accessed. Some of the out of state visitors may want to visit a cave
>or two while in Texas. There are enough influential cavers in Austin that
>would probably volunteer to lead several trips. Where have you been, David?
>Has your computer been on the fritz?
>
>Fritz
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: David [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:53 AM
>To: Clint Ladd; Lyndon Tiu; Fritz Holt; Syd Formanek; Dorothy Mladenka;
>[email protected]; hose; Keith Goggin; Lisa Goggin; David Locklear; Sheryl
>Rieck; Charles Fromen
>Subject: NSS caving related
>
>Dear caving friends,
>
>The National Speleological Society holds its annual Board of Governors
>meeting at different places each
>year.
>
>They are quickly searching for a place for the fall 2011 meeting.
>
>My good caving friend, RD Milhollin, of Dallas, is ramrodding the
>planning committee to get the meeting in Texas.
>
>He has possibly narrowed down to locations.
>
>1 ) Austin
>
>2 ) Northeast Houston ( near Intercontinental Airport )
>
>I believe they a commitment from the host by the end of the NSS
>Convention which means in less than
>a month.
>
>I would be willing to volunteer to meet people at the airport and
>drive them to their hotels and the meeting place.
>
>I would be willing to search for a meeting room.
>
>But that is about all I think I can volunteer for.
>
>
>I have serious doubts that the rest of the cavers in Texas would want
>to drive to northeast Houston. But the people
>flying in from the rest of the country would find that location
>convenient. But the purpose of the NSS holding in places
>like Houston, is to encourage NSS participation from different regions.
>
>Lake Houston State Park is only 30 minutes northeast of the airport,
>and the NSS could probably afford to rent all
>the facilities there, and then the guest would not have to get a hotel.
>
>David Locklear
>NSS 27639
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Whaddya think, RD?
The TSA would like to help out any way we can.
Let us know where, when, and how. Austin, Houston, DFW, or at/around
TCR.
It's here in Texas and it's all good!
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Fritz Holt [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 2:54 PM
To: 'Rod Goke'; 'David'; Clint Ladd; Lyndon Tiu; Syd Formanek; Dorothy
Mladenka; [email protected]; hose; Keith Goggin; Lisa Goggin; Sheryl
Rieck; Charles Fromen; Texas Cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: NSS caving related
That is a good question for someone other than me as I know nothing
about it and was only responding to David's post.
Fritz
-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Goke [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 2:36 PM
To: Fritz Holt; 'David'; Clint Ladd; Lyndon Tiu; Syd Formanek; Dorothy
Mladenka; [email protected]; hose; Keith Goggin; Lisa Goggin; Sheryl
Rieck; Charles Fromen; Texas Cavers
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: NSS caving related
When during fall 2011 does the BOG meeting need to be scheduled? Notice
that TCR 2011 is scheduled Oct. 14--16 at a location slightly west of
Austin. Would it be practical to schedule the BOG meting close enough to
that date so that people from out of state could attend both events
during the same trip if they felt like spending more time here?
Rod
-----Original Message-----
>From: Fritz Holt <[email protected]>
>Sent: Jun 20, 2011 11:24 AM
>To: 'David' <[email protected]>, Clint Ladd
<[email protected]>, Lyndon Tiu <[email protected]>, Syd
Formanek <[email protected]>, Dorothy Mladenka <[email protected]>,
"[email protected]" <[email protected]>, hose <[email protected]>, Keith
Goggin <[email protected]>, Lisa Goggin <[email protected]>, Sheryl
Rieck <[email protected]>, Charles Fromen <[email protected]>,
Texas Cavers <[email protected]>
>Subject: [Texascavers] RE: NSS caving related
>
>David and other interested parties,
>
>The Houston area has a host of opportunities for vacationers and
tourists. However, if the Board of Governors are cavers, it would seem
logical that the meeting be held in Austin which is much closer to some
nice caves that may still be accessed. Some of the out of state visitors
may want to visit a cave or two while in Texas. There are enough
influential cavers in Austin that would probably volunteer to lead
several trips. Where have you been, David? Has your computer been on the
fritz?
>
>Fritz
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: David [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:53 AM
>To: Clint Ladd; Lyndon Tiu; Fritz Holt; Syd Formanek; Dorothy Mladenka;
[email protected]; hose; Keith Goggin; Lisa Goggin; David Locklear;
Sheryl Rieck; Charles Fromen
>Subject: NSS caving related
>
>Dear caving friends,
>
>The National Speleological Society holds its annual Board of Governors
>meeting at different places each
>year.
>
>They are quickly searching for a place for the fall 2011 meeting.
>
>My good caving friend, RD Milhollin, of Dallas, is ramrodding the
>planning committee to get the meeting in Texas.
>
>He has possibly narrowed down to locations.
>
>1 ) Austin
>
>2 ) Northeast Houston ( near Intercontinental Airport )
>
>I believe they a commitment from the host by the end of the NSS
>Convention which means in less than
>a month.
>
>I would be willing to volunteer to meet people at the airport and
>drive them to their hotels and the meeting place.
>
>I would be willing to search for a meeting room.
>
>But that is about all I think I can volunteer for.
>
>
>I have serious doubts that the rest of the cavers in Texas would want
>to drive to northeast Houston. But the people
>flying in from the rest of the country would find that location
>convenient. But the purpose of the NSS holding in places
>like Houston, is to encourage NSS participation from different regions.
>
>Lake Houston State Park is only 30 minutes northeast of the airport,
>and the NSS could probably afford to rent all
>the facilities there, and then the guest would not have to get a hotel.
>
>David Locklear
>NSS 27639
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Folks,
Generally, the BOG meetings are held on a weekend (Saturday). I think either
October or early November works for most folks. It is usually a full days
business so I don't think having the BOG the same day as TCR would work very
well. They need to have access to power, minimal dust and noise, and the need
to sometimes go into a closed session. There is commonly a party on Friday
night and maybe a cave trip on Sunday. However, many of the BOG folks are
traveling on Friday and Sunday so caving isn't a high priority. The BOG travel
is not supported by the NSS so anything you can do to help cut costs are
appreciated (like holding it in a larger town with good airport access). Many
of the BOG members like to stay with cavers to also cut costs. There is also
usually a dinner/party on Saturday after the board meeting. The Bexar grotto
has hosted one or two here in San Antonio and they are a lot of fun.
It takes a minimal amount of effort to hold one. They have been held in
libraries, community rooms, churches, country clubs, and board rooms -
generally any room that can hold 50-100 folks. You may want to go to the NSS
web page, I think there are some guidelines on what is required. Generally,
there are, 17 board members, and couple of support folks, and a few dozen
spectators.
I think Houston, Austin, or the Dallas/Ft Worth area would work very well -
then again, I heard rumors there was a legendary BOG meeting held in Buda some
years ago.
Geary
-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Goke [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 2:36 PM
To: Fritz Holt; 'David'; Clint Ladd; Lyndon Tiu; Syd Formanek; Dorothy
Mladenka; [email protected]; hose; Keith Goggin; Lisa Goggin; Sheryl Rieck;
Charles Fromen; Texas Cavers
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: NSS caving related
When during fall 2011 does the BOG meeting need to be scheduled? Notice that
TCR 2011 is scheduled Oct. 14--16 at a location slightly west of Austin. Would
it be practical to schedule the BOG meting close enough to that date so that
people from out of state could attend both events during the same trip if they
felt like spending more time here?
Rod
-----Original Message-----
>From: Fritz Holt <[email protected]>
>Sent: Jun 20, 2011 11:24 AM
>To: 'David' <[email protected]>, Clint Ladd <[email protected]>,
>Lyndon Tiu <[email protected]>, Syd Formanek <[email protected]>, Dorothy
>Mladenka <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, hose
><[email protected]>, Keith Goggin <[email protected]>, Lisa Goggin
><[email protected]>, Sheryl Rieck <[email protected]>, Charles Fromen
><[email protected]>, Texas Cavers <[email protected]>
>Subject: [Texascavers] RE: NSS caving related
>
>David and other interested parties,
>
>The Houston area has a host of opportunities for vacationers and tourists.
>However, if the Board of Governors are cavers, it would seem logical that the
>meeting be held in Austin which is much closer to some nice caves that may
>still be accessed. Some of the out of state visitors may want to visit a cave
>or two while in Texas. There are enough influential cavers in Austin that
>would probably volunteer to lead several trips. Where have you been, David?
>Has your computer been on the fritz?
>
>Fritz
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: David [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:53 AM
>To: Clint Ladd; Lyndon Tiu; Fritz Holt; Syd Formanek; Dorothy Mladenka;
>[email protected]; hose; Keith Goggin; Lisa Goggin; David Locklear; Sheryl
>Rieck; Charles Fromen
>Subject: NSS caving related
>
>Dear caving friends,
>
>The National Speleological Society holds its annual Board of Governors
>meeting at different places each
>year.
>
>They are quickly searching for a place for the fall 2011 meeting.
>
>My good caving friend, RD Milhollin, of Dallas, is ramrodding the
>planning committee to get the meeting in Texas.
>
>He has possibly narrowed down to locations.
>
>1 ) Austin
>
>2 ) Northeast Houston ( near Intercontinental Airport )
>
>I believe they a commitment from the host by the end of the NSS
>Convention which means in less than
>a month.
>
>I would be willing to volunteer to meet people at the airport and
>drive them to their hotels and the meeting place.
>
>I would be willing to search for a meeting room.
>
>But that is about all I think I can volunteer for.
>
>
>I have serious doubts that the rest of the cavers in Texas would want
>to drive to northeast Houston. But the people
>flying in from the rest of the country would find that location
>convenient. But the purpose of the NSS holding in places
>like Houston, is to encourage NSS participation from different regions.
>
>Lake Houston State Park is only 30 minutes northeast of the airport,
>and the NSS could probably afford to rent all
>the facilities there, and then the guest would not have to get a hotel.
>
>David Locklear
>NSS 27639
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looking at the on-line NSS Board manual at past Board meetings looks
like somewhere in October or November works.
Gary Moss
At 03:54 PM 6/20/2011, Fritz Holt wrote:
That is a good question for someone other than me as I know nothing
about it and was only responding to David's post.
Fritz
-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Goke [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 2:36 PM
To: Fritz Holt; 'David'; Clint Ladd; Lyndon Tiu; Syd Formanek;
Dorothy Mladenka; [email protected]; hose; Keith Goggin; Lisa
Goggin; Sheryl Rieck; Charles Fromen; Texas Cavers
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: NSS caving related
When during fall 2011 does the BOG meeting need to be scheduled?
Notice that TCR 2011 is scheduled Oct. 14--16 at a location slightly
west of Austin. Would it be practical to schedule the BOG meting
close enough to that date so that people from out of state could
attend both events during the same trip if they felt like spending
more time here?
Rod
-----Original Message-----
>From: Fritz Holt <[email protected]>
>Sent: Jun 20, 2011 11:24 AM
>To: 'David' <[email protected]>, Clint Ladd
<[email protected]>, Lyndon Tiu <[email protected]>, Syd
Formanek <[email protected]>, Dorothy Mladenka
<[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, hose
<[email protected]>, Keith Goggin <[email protected]>, Lisa Goggin
<[email protected]>, Sheryl Rieck <[email protected]>,
Charles Fromen <[email protected]>, Texas Cavers <[email protected]>
>Subject: [Texascavers] RE: NSS caving related
>
>David and other interested parties,
>
>The Houston area has a host of opportunities for vacationers and
tourists. However, if the Board of Governors are cavers, it would
seem logical that the meeting be held in Austin which is much
closer to some nice caves that may still be accessed. Some of the
out of state visitors may want to visit a cave or two while in
Texas. There are enough influential cavers in Austin that would
probably volunteer to lead several trips. Where have you been,
David? Has your computer been on the fritz?
>
>Fritz
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: David [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:53 AM
>To: Clint Ladd; Lyndon Tiu; Fritz Holt; Syd Formanek; Dorothy
Mladenka; [email protected]; hose; Keith Goggin; Lisa Goggin; David
Locklear; Sheryl Rieck; Charles Fromen
>Subject: NSS caving related
>
>Dear caving friends,
>
>The National Speleological Society holds its annual Board of Governors
>meeting at different places each
>year.
>
>They are quickly searching for a place for the fall 2011 meeting.
>
>My good caving friend, RD Milhollin, of Dallas, is ramrodding the
>planning committee to get the meeting in Texas.
>
>He has possibly narrowed down to locations.
>
>1 ) Austin
>
>2 ) Northeast Houston ( near Intercontinental Airport )
>
>I believe they a commitment from the host by the end of the NSS
>Convention which means in less than
>a month.
>
>I would be willing to volunteer to meet people at the airport and
>drive them to their hotels and the meeting place.
>
>I would be willing to search for a meeting room.
>
>But that is about all I think I can volunteer for.
>
>
>I have serious doubts that the rest of the cavers in Texas would want
>to drive to northeast Houston. But the people
>flying in from the rest of the country would find that location
>convenient. But the purpose of the NSS holding in places
>like Houston, is to encourage NSS participation from different regions.
>
>Lake Houston State Park is only 30 minutes northeast of the airport,
>and the NSS could probably afford to rent all
>the facilities there, and then the guest would not have to get a hotel.
>
>David Locklear
>NSS 27639
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I really didn't think it would work to have the BOG meeting the same weekend as TCR, but if the meeting were scheduled one week away, such as the weekend following TCR, then some people might want to spend a week in the area, attending TCR and BOG on the two weekends and perhaps caving or otherwise vacationing in Texas during the week. If they happen to be in Austin Oct. 19 (the Wednesday following TCR), then they also might attend a UT Grotto meeting, including the traditional "meeting before the meeting" at Sao Paulo's Restaurant (where many Austin cavers like to eat supper together before each Grotto meeting), and the traditional "meeting after the meeting" at the Posse East (where Austin cavers go for beer, food, BS, socializing, etc. after each Grotto meeting).
Rod
-----Original Message-----
>From: Geary Schindel
>Sent: Jun 20, 2011 3:16 PM
>To: 'Rod Goke' , Fritz Holt , 'David' , Clint Ladd , Lyndon Tiu , Syd Formanek , Dorothy Mladenka , "[email protected]" , hose , Keith Goggin , Lisa Goggin , Sheryl Rieck , Charles Fromen , Texas Cavers
>Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: NSS caving related
>
>Folks,
>
>Generally, the BOG meetings are held on a weekend (Saturday). I think either October or early November works for most folks. It is usually a full days business so I don't think having the BOG the same day as TCR would work very well. They need to have access to power, minimal dust and noise, and the need to sometimes go into a closed session. There is commonly a party on Friday night and maybe a cave trip on Sunday. However, many of the BOG folks are traveling on Friday and Sunday so caving isn't a high priority. The BOG travel is not supported by the NSS so anything you can do to help cut costs are appreciated (like holding it in a larger town with good airport access). Many of the BOG members like to stay with cavers to also cut costs. There is also usually a dinner/party on Saturday after the board meeting. The Bexar grotto has hosted one or two here in San Antonio and they are a lot of fun.
>
>It takes a minimal amount of effort to hold one. They have been held in libraries, community rooms, churches, country clubs, and board rooms - generally any room that can hold 50-100 folks. You may want to go to the NSS web page, I think there are some guidelines on what is required. Generally, there are, 17 board members, and couple of support folks, and a few dozen spectators.
>
>I think Houston, Austin, or the Dallas/Ft Worth area would work very well - then again, I heard rumors there was a legendary BOG meeting held in Buda some years ago.
>
>Geary
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rod Goke [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 2:36 PM
>To: Fritz Holt; 'David'; Clint Ladd; Lyndon Tiu; Syd Formanek; Dorothy Mladenka; [email protected]; hose; Keith Goggin; Lisa Goggin; Sheryl Rieck; Charles Fromen; Texas Cavers
>Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: NSS caving related
>
>When during fall 2011 does the BOG meeting need to be scheduled? Notice that TCR 2011 is scheduled Oct. 14--16 at a location slightly west of Austin. Would it be practical to schedule the BOG meting close enough to that date so that people from out of state could attend both events during the same trip if they felt like spending more time here?
>
>Rod
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Fritz Holt
>>Sent: Jun 20, 2011 11:24 AM
>>To: 'David' , Clint Ladd , Lyndon Tiu , Syd Formanek , Dorothy Mladenka , "[email protected]" , hose , Keith Goggin , Lisa Goggin , Sheryl Rieck , Charles Fromen , Texas Cavers
>>Subject: [Texascavers] RE: NSS caving related
>>
>>David and other interested parties,
>>
>>The Houston area has a host of opportunities for vacationers and tourists. However, if the Board of Governors are cavers, it would seem logical that the meeting be held in Austin which is much closer to some nice caves that may still be accessed. Some of the out of state visitors may want to visit a cave or two while in Texas. There are enough influential cavers in Austin that would probably volunteer to lead several trips. Where have you been, David? Has your computer been on the fritz?
>>
>>Fritz
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: David [mailto:[email protected]]
>>Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:53 AM
>>To: Clint Ladd; Lyndon Tiu; Fritz Holt; Syd Formanek; Dorothy Mladenka; [email protected]; hose; Keith Goggin; Lisa Goggin; David Locklear; Sheryl Rieck; Charles Fromen
>>Subject: NSS caving related
>>
>>Dear caving friends,
>>
>>The National Speleological Society holds its annual Board of Governors
>>meeting at different places each
>>year.
>>
>>They are quickly searching for a place for the fall 2011 meeting.
>>
>>My good caving friend, RD Milhollin, of Dallas, is ramrodding the
>>planning committee to get the meeting in Texas.
>>
>>He has possibly narrowed down to locations.
>>
>>1 ) Austin
>>
>>2 ) Northeast Houston ( near Intercontinental Airport )
>>
>>I believe they a commitment from the host by the end of the NSS
>>Convention which means in less than
>>a month.
>>
>>I would be willing to volunteer to meet people at the airport and
>>drive them to their hotels and the meeting place.
>>
>>I would be willing to search for a meeting room.
>>
>>But that is about all I think I can volunteer for.
>>
>>
>>I have serious doubts that the rest of the cavers in Texas would want
>>to drive to northeast Houston. But the people
>>flying in from the rest of the country would find that location
>>convenient. But the purpose of the NSS holding in places
>>like Houston, is to encourage NSS participation from different regions.
>>
>>Lake Houston State Park is only 30 minutes northeast of the airport,
>>and the NSS could probably afford to rent all
>>the facilities there, and then the guest would not have to get a hotel.
>>
>>David Locklear
>>NSS 27639
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>>For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
|
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As the organizer of TCR, I feel I need to weigh in here. While I am not
opposed to BOG being the same weekend, it would be up to someone else to find
the meeting location for the BOG and make all arrangements for its associated
stuff. I do not want to have that responsibility as part of TCR. Having it
close to TCR so anyone who wanted to could stay, is a better idea to me.
Allan
From: Rod Goke
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 4:03 PM
To: Geary Schindel ; 'Rod Goke' ; Fritz Holt ; 'David' ; Clint Ladd ; Lyndon
Tiu ; Syd Formanek ; Dorothy Mladenka ; [email protected] ; hose ; Keith Goggin
; Lisa Goggin ; Sheryl Rieck ; Charles Fromen ; Texas Cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: NSS caving related
I really didn't think it would work to have the BOG meeting the same weekend as
TCR, but if the meeting were scheduled one week away, such as the weekend
following TCR, then some people might want to spend a week in the area,
attending TCR and BOG on the two weekends and perhaps caving or otherwise
vacationing in Texas during the week. If they happen to be in Austin Oct. 19
(the Wednesday following TCR), then they also might attend a UT Grotto meeting,
including the traditional "meeting before the meeting" at Sao Paulo's
Restaurant (where many Austin cavers like to eat supper together before each
Grotto meeting), and the traditional "meeting after the meeting" at the Posse
East (where Austin cavers go for beer, food, BS, socializing, etc. after each
Grotto meeting).
Rod
-----Original Message-----
>From: Geary Schindel
>Sent: Jun 20, 2011 3:16 PM
>To: 'Rod Goke' , Fritz Holt , 'David' , Clint Ladd , Lyndon Tiu , Syd Formanek
>, Dorothy Mladenka , "[email protected]" , hose , Keith Goggin , Lisa Goggin ,
>Sheryl Rieck , Charles Fromen , Texas Cavers
>Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: NSS caving related
>
>Folks,
>
>Generally, the BOG meetings are held on a weekend (Saturday). I think either
>October or early November works for most folks. It is usually a full days
>business so I don't think having the BOG the same day as TCR would work very
>well. They need to have access to power, minimal dust and noise, and the need
>to sometimes go into a closed session. There is commonly a party on Friday
>night and maybe a cave trip on Sunday. However, many of the BOG folks are
>traveling on Friday and Sunday so caving isn't a high priority. The BOG travel
>is not supported by the NSS so anything you can do to help cut costs are
>appreciated (like holding it in a larger town with good airport access). Many
>of the BOG members like to stay with cavers to also cut costs. There is also
>usually a dinner/party on Saturday after the board meeting. The Bexar grotto
>has hosted one or two here in San Antonio and they are a lot of fun.
>
>It takes a minimal amount of effort to hold one. They have been held in
>libraries, community rooms, churches, country clubs, and board rooms -
>generally any room that can hold 50-100 folks. You may want to go to the NSS
>web page, I think there are some guidelines on what is required. Generally,
>there are, 17 board members, and couple of support folks, and a few dozen
>spectators.
>
>I think Houston, Austin, or the Dallas/Ft Worth area would work very well -
>then again, I heard rumors there was a legendary BOG meeting held in Buda some
>years ago.
>
>Geary
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rod Goke [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 2:36 PM
>To: Fritz Holt; 'David'; Clint Ladd; Lyndon Tiu; Syd Formanek; Dorothy
>Mladenka; [email protected]; hose; Keith Goggin; Lisa Goggin; Sheryl Rieck;
>Charles Fromen; Texas Cavers
>Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: NSS caving related
>
>When during fall 2011 does the BOG meeting need to be scheduled? Notice that
>TCR 2011 is scheduled Oct. 14--16 at a location slightly west of Austin. Would
>it be practical to schedule the BOG meting close enough to that date so that
>people from out of state could attend both events during the same trip if they
>felt like spending more time here?
>
>Rod
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Fritz Holt
>>Sent: Jun 20, 2011 11:24 AM
>>To: 'David' , Clint Ladd , Lyndon Tiu , Syd Formanek , Dorothy Mladenka ,
>>"[email protected]" , hose , Keith Goggin , Lisa Goggin , Sheryl Rieck ,
>>Charles Fromen , Texas Cavers
>>Subject: [Texascavers] RE: NSS caving related
>>
>>David and other interested parties,
>>
>>The Houston area has a host of opportunities for vacationers and tourists.
>>However, if the Board of Governors are cavers, it would seem logical that the
>>meeting be held in Austin which is much closer to some nice caves that may
>>still be accessed. Some of the out of state visitors may want to visit a cave
>>or two while in Texas. There are enough influential cavers in Austin that
>>would probably volunteer to lead several trips. Where have you been, David?
>>Has your computer been on the fritz?
>>
>>Fritz
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: David [mailto:[email protected]]
>>Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:53 AM
>>To: Clint Ladd; Lyndon Tiu; Fritz Holt; Syd Formanek; Dorothy Mladenka;
>>[email protected]; hose; Keith Goggin; Lisa Goggin; David Locklear; Sheryl
>>Rieck; Charles Fromen
>>Subject: NSS caving related
>>
>>Dear caving friends,
>>
>>The National Speleological Society holds its annual Board of Governors
>>meeting at different places each
>>year.
>>
>>They are quickly searching for a place for the fall 2011 meeting.
>>
>>My good caving friend, RD Milhollin, of Dallas, is ramrodding the
>>planning committee to get the meeting in Texas.
>>
>>He has possibly narrowed down to locations.
>>
>>1 ) Austin
>>
>>2 ) Northeast Houston ( near Intercontinental Airport )
>>
>>I believe they a commitment from the host by the end of the NSS
>>Convention which means in less than
>>a month.
>>
>>I would be willing to volunteer to meet people at the airport and
>>drive them to their hotels and the meeting place.
>>
>>I would be willing to search for a meeting room.
>>
>>But that is about all I think I can volunteer for.
>>
>>
>>I have serious doubts that the rest of the cavers in Texas would want
>>to drive to northeast Houston. But the people
>>flying in from the rest of the country would find that location
>>convenient. But the purpose of the NSS holding in places
>>like Houston, is to encourage NSS participation from different regions.
>>
>>Lake Houston State Park is only 30 minutes northeast of the airport,
>>and the NSS could probably afford to rent all
>>the facilities there, and then the guest would not have to get a hotel.
>>
>>David Locklear
>>NSS 27639
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>>For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
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