texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 12:53:55 -0000 Issue 1297
Topics (messages 17650 through 17658):
Re: New travel warning by State Department
17650 by: Diana Tomchick
17651 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
Grutas de Garcia - Monterrey
17652 by: David
17656 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
Re: Fire in the Guads (Last Chance Canyon)
17653 by: Karen Perry
17654 by: Gary McDaniel
Re: Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
17655 by: S S
17657 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com
17658 by: J. LaRue Thomas
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--- Begin Message ---
There are only two other Western Hemisphere nations that have a State
Department travel warning issued for them, and they are Colombia and Haiti.
Surely that fact is not lost on the Mexican government, and I hardly think that
the wording of this travel warning (which is far more detailed than the
warnings for the other two countries) was meant to pacify them.
Diana
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)
On Apr 23, 2011, at 12:24 AM, David wrote:
> For any cavers still pondering whether to travel to Mexico to go caving:
>
>
> http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_5440.html
>
> I am not sure what this says differently from the warning issued in September.
>
> However, it clearly states to avoid the state of Tamaulipas, which some cavers
> would drive thru if they were heading to the Sierra Madre area around Ciuidad
> Victoria or points further south.
>
> It prohibits Federal employees from certain areas. Included are
> areas are in the
> state of Jalisco. I states they can't go to Boystown in Laredo.
> ( Rumors are that place was abandoned by tourist years ago, and
> I haven't heard of a caver going there in over 15 years. )
>
> Note federal employees are prohibited from travelling several popular routes
> used by cavers in the Monterrey area. It also says very clearly that the
> area around the town of San Fernando is dangerous. ( This is the area
> that has been in the news lately for the mass graves )
>
> It subtly indicates some of the consulate offices have been downsized to the
> point they are no longer functional.
>
> It says to not travel Highway 57 in San Luis Potosi.
>
> It subtly warns not to travel to Cuernavaca, Acapulco, Zihuatanejo, and
> the beautiful tourist resort of Ixtapa. But more clearly warns to avoid
> Ciudad Juarez, Tijuana, and Puerto Peñasco.
>
> Personally, I think the statement is vague. It does not mention beheadings,
> or some of the torture methods, and the public displaying of corpses with
> narco-messages, or that the crime is so bad that the criminals are taking
> real estate property from people. It doesn't mention all the escaped
> convicts. It does not mention the bad guys are heavily armed with
> automatic weapons. Nowhere in the article does it describe what the
> bad guys look like, so how are you supposed to know how to keep a
> watchful eye ? Nor does the article in any way refer the tourist to
> the best up to date news sites on the web related to the narco-crime.
> It seems designed more to please the Mexican Government, and not
> hurt their feelings.
>
> David
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
________________________________
UT Southwestern Medical Center
The future of medicine, today.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you have enough Spanish, reading Google News for Mexico will give similar info. Anyway, diplomacy is what the State Department does.
Apropos of nothing, before WWII, British diplomats got tropical duty pay for being stationed in pre-airconditioned Washington, DC.
Apr 25, 2011 12:56:40 PM, diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu wrote:
There are only two other Western Hemisphere nations that have a State Department travel warning issued for them, and they are Colombia and Haiti. Surely that fact is not lost on the Mexican government, and I hardly think that the wording of this travel warning (which is far more detailed than the warnings for the other two countries) was meant to pacify them.
Diana
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)
On Apr 23, 2011, at 12:24 AM, David wrote:
> For any cavers still pondering whether to travel to Mexico to go caving:
>
>
> http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_5440.html
>
> I am not sure what this says differently from the warning issued in September.
>
> However, it clearly states to avoid the state of Tamaulipas, which some cavers
> would drive thru if they were heading to the Sierra Madre area around Ciuidad
> Victoria or points further south.
>
> It prohibits Federal employees from certain areas. Included are
> areas are in the
> state of Jalisco. I states they can't go to Boystown in Laredo.
> ( Rumors are that place was abandoned by tourist years ago, and
> I haven't heard of a caver going there in over 15 years. )
>
> Note federal employees are prohibited from travelling several popular routes
> used by cavers in the Monterrey area. It also says very clearly that the
> area around the town of San Fernando is dangerous. ( This is the area
> that has been in the news lately for the mass graves )
>
> It subtly indicates some of the consulate offices have been downsized to the
> point they are no longer functional.
>
> It says to not travel Highway 57 in San Luis Potosi.
>
> It subtly warns not to travel to Cuernavaca, Acapulco, Zihuatanejo, and
> the beautiful tourist resort of Ixtapa. But more clearly warns to avoid
> Ciudad Juarez, Tijuana, and Puerto Peñasco.
>
> Personally, I think the statement is vague. It does not mention beheadings,
> or some of the torture methods, and the public displaying of corpses with
> narco-messages, or that the crime is so bad that the criminals are taking
> real estate property from people. It doesn't mention all the escaped
> convicts. It does not mention the bad guys are heavily armed with
> automatic weapons. Nowhere in the article does it describe what the
> bad guys look like, so how are you supposed to know how to keep a
> watchful eye ? Nor does the article in any way refer the tourist to
> the best up to date news sites on the web related to the narco-crime.
> It seems designed more to please the Mexican Government, and not
> hurt their feelings.
>
> David
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
________________________________
UT Southwestern Medical Center
The future of medicine, today.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ted's mention of Spanish Google News led to me find that the
commercial cave near
Monterrey, just had some kind of opening ceremony to its new tourist center
last week.
It sounds nice, with a little museum, and some sort of slide-show area.
The video below only shows the front and a brief tour of the inside:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CagzngG1P0Q
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mexican Google News, please. Spanish Google News would include Spain, Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Cuba, Peru, y los Estados Unidos.
Por ejemplo, leyendo de Charlie Sheen o de Lindsay Lohan es muy facil!
<snargle>
T
Apr 25, 2011 02:44:26 PM, dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:
Ted's mention of Spanish Google News led to me find that the
commercial cave near
Monterrey, just had some kind of opening ceremony to its new tourist center
last week.
It sounds nice, with a little museum, and some sort of slide-show area.
The video below only shows the front and a brief tour of the inside:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CagzngG1P0Q
David Locklear
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--- Begin Message ---
--- On Mon, 4/25/11, Carol Belski <bels...@valornet.com> wrote:
Update for public information
Here's the link to stay up to date on the fire.
http://nmfireinfo.wordpress.com/2011/04/25/las-chance-fire-fact-sheet-4242011-630-pm/
Last Chance Fire Fact Sheet – 4/25/2011 – 8:00 am
Posted on April 25, 2011 by Dan Ware
Acres: estimated at 15,000 Start Date: April 24th 2011
Cause: Under Investigation Location: 5 miles west of Queen, NM
Containment:0 percent Fuels: Pinon juniper, brush and grass
Terrain: Steep and Rugged Resources: 3 crews, 11 engines, 2 water tenders
Total personnel:120 Structures: 3 Structures threatened and 2
Evacuated
Jurisdiction: USFS, BLM, State and Private
Aircraft: Air Attack, one Type 1 helicopter and one Type 3 helicopter
Evening activities included a successful burnout operation that tied the 137
and 408 roads together; while moderate to high fire activity was observed on
the fire all night. Crews worked aggressively throughout the night to scout and
secure the perimeter of the fire. A Temporary Flight Restriction (TFR) has been
put into place surrounding the fire for all non-fire aircraft.
A Red Flag Warning is in effect from noon today through Tuesday night; erratic
winds and low relative humidity’s could hamper fire suppression activities. A
flight this morning will be conducted to gather accurate information on acreage
and fire activity.
Summary:
Objectives for crews today are to keep the fire south of Forest Roads 408/405,
north of Hwy 137, east of Forest Road 277C and north and west of Surpentine
Bend. Structure protection is still being conducted around 2 structures that
were evacuated and the following roads have been closed:
- HWY137 at 408 (Dark Canyon Road) – State Police blockade
- Dark Canyon Road at Hidalgo Road
Health Advisory:
Smoke from the fire is impacting the community of Carlsbad and surrounding
areas so please take precautious if you have any health or respiratory issues.
For more information, NMED’s website,
http://www.nmenv.state.nm.us/aqb/Wildfire-PM.html, the DOH website
http://www.health.state.nm.us/ and http://www.nmfireinfo.com/
A public meeting has been set for Monday, April 25th at 6:00 p.m. at the Queen
Fire Department.
Filed under: Active Wildfire, BLM, Forest Service, NM Fire Info, NM State
Forestry, Southeast NM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How long has it been since the guads have burned? Perhaps ,other than
saving structures, it would be best from an environmental standpoint to let
it go. Fire is a natural part of the ecosystem and suppressing it has
negative long term effects.
My dos centavos-
Gary McDaniel
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:32 PM, Karen Perry <txcavem...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> --- On *Mon, 4/25/11, Carol Belski <bels...@valornet.com>* wrote:
>
> Update for public information
> Here's the link to stay up to date on the fire.
>
>
> http://nmfireinfo.wordpress.com/2011/04/25/las-chance-fire-fact-sheet-4242011-630-pm/
>
>
>
>
> Last Chance Fire Fact Sheet – 4/25/2011 – 8:00 am
> Posted on April 25, 2011 by Dan Ware
> Acres: estimated at 15,000 Start Date: April 24th 2011
> Cause: Under Investigation Location: 5 miles west of Queen, NM
> Containment:0 percent Fuels: Pinon juniper, brush and grass
> Terrain: Steep and Rugged Resources: 3 crews, 11 engines, 2 water
> tenders
> Total personnel:120 Structures: 3 Structures threatened and
> 2 Evacuated
> Jurisdiction: USFS, BLM, State and Private
> Aircraft: Air Attack, one Type 1 helicopter and one Type 3 helicopter
> Evening activities included a successful burnout operation that tied the
> 137 and 408 roads together; while moderate to high fire activity was
> observed on the fire all night. Crews worked aggressively throughout the
> night to scout and secure the perimeter of the fire. A Temporary Flight
> Restriction (TFR) has been put into place surrounding the fire for all
> non-fire aircraft.
> A Red Flag Warning is in effect from noon today through Tuesday night;
> erratic winds and low relative humidity’s could hamper fire suppression
> activities. A flight this morning will be conducted to gather accurate
> information on acreage and fire activity.
>
>
>
> Summary:
> Objectives for crews today are to keep the fire south of Forest Roads
> 408/405, north of Hwy 137, east of Forest Road 277C and north and west of
> Surpentine Bend. Structure protection is still being conducted around 2
> structures that were evacuated and the following roads have been closed:
> - HWY137 at 408 (Dark Canyon Road) – State Police blockade
> - Dark Canyon Road at Hidalgo Road
> Health Advisory:
> Smoke from the fire is impacting the community of Carlsbad and surrounding
> areas so please take precautious if you have any health or respiratory
> issues. For more information, NMED’s website,
> http://www.nmenv.state.nm.us/aqb/Wildfire-PM.html, the DOH website
> http://www.health.state.nm.us/ and http://www.nmfireinfo.com/
> A public meeting has been set for Monday, April 25th at 6:00 p.m. at the
> Queen Fire Department.
> Filed under: Active Wildfire, BLM, Forest Service, NM Fire Info, NM State
> Forestry, Southeast NM
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
--
~Gary McDaniel
Grand Junction, CO
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We need more caving trip events to local caves....Whirlpool, Airmans, Blowing
Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to
keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move
a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there
being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be
included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects...
From: mark.al...@l-3com.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
CC: texascav...@yahoo.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
But, what can the TSA do for you!
Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would like to
solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements, likes/dislikes,
and things you would like to see the TSA do.
From Michael:
What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a difference? Is
there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA is the premier caving
organization in the State? How can we make the TSA the “place to go” for all
things caving?
I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own question. It is
more of a question that we need to ponder as we move into the summer months.
With the exception of the Texas Caver and TSA Convention we are relatively
dormant during these summer months. Perhaps we could have 2 -4 training classes
at TCR in October. Workshops limited to the first 25 cavers on such topics as
cave photography, vertical beginner, vertical advance, cartography beginner,
cartography advanced.
We currently have around 150 members and it has fluctuated around there since I
have been an officer. The officers and I are interested in building more
excitement and enthusiasm for the TSA, which will then bring in more members.
I just attended a superb climbing class conducted by Lloyd Turnbull and the
Cowtown Grotto. These are the type of things we’re interested in promoting and
conducting.
So now is your chance! Rather than listen to me browbeat y’all about needing
material for The TEXAS CAVER (which, I still do!) get your thinking caps on and
send us some feedback!
If you would like to volunteer to head something up, don’t be shy about that,
as well!
I will be out of commission for the next couple of days getting a couple of
kidney stones annihilated, but while you’re sending me money, flowers, candy,
and best wishes, think about ways we can improve the TSA.
We’re all in this cave together!
Thanks!
Mark, Ellie, Michael, and Denise
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Agreed and you're correct that there are a lot of little projects that
are conducted "by one or two people that could be included in a larger
project".
This has been one of my biggest and oldest pet peeves, going all the way
back when I was a new member at the DFW Grotto.
These less than well-publicized (read "secret"?) trips to caves that
only a chosen few ever hear about or get invited on.
Surely, there's a way to keep the amount of folks attending to a
reasonable level while still being inclusive to other cavers, new or
experienced.
I don't recall ever conducting a project weekend that was not publicized
and the number of folks who attended was always manageable.
If you want only 6 or 8 cavers, say so!
Inclusiveness equals interest, participation, enthusiasm and a healthy
TSA/Grotto.
Cliquishness equals poor/no camaraderie, disinterest, and a loss of
members.
The UT Grotto has been very good at getting new cavers underground,
primarily at Whirlpool, which is an excellent beginner cave.
The Longhorn Project, which I am in charge of, was a blast, before and
after ICS and helped get a lot of new cavers underground, primarily from
and a big thanks to the Aggie Grotto!
If you have a "Grotto Only" trip, surely you can advertise it on CaveTex
and allow a few more other cavers from cave poor areas of the state
(read "DFW") to attend.
If you want to limit the size, say so, but, Publicize, Publicize,
Publicize!
Mark
From: S S [mailto:back2scool...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:27 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
We need more caving trip events to local caves....Whirlpool, Airmans,
Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are
enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project
and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there
must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by
one or two people that could be included in a larger project.
VOlonteers love projects...
________________________________
From: mark.al...@l-3com.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
CC: texascav...@yahoo.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
But, what can the TSA do for you!
Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would
like to solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements,
likes/dislikes, and things you would like to see the TSA do.
From Michael:
What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a
difference? Is there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA
is the premier caving organization in the State? How can we make the TSA
the "place to go" for all things caving?
I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own
question. It is more of a question that we need to ponder as we move
into the summer months. With the exception of the Texas Caver and TSA
Convention we are relatively dormant during these summer months. Perhaps
we could have 2 -4 training classes at TCR in October. Workshops limited
to the first 25 cavers on such topics as cave photography, vertical
beginner, vertical advance, cartography beginner, cartography advanced.
We currently have around 150 members and it has fluctuated
around there since I have been an officer. The officers and I are
interested in building more excitement and enthusiasm for the TSA, which
will then bring in more members.
I just attended a superb climbing class conducted by Lloyd
Turnbull and the Cowtown Grotto. These are the type of things we're
interested in promoting and conducting.
So now is your chance! Rather than listen to me browbeat y'all
about needing material for The TEXAS CAVER (which, I still do!) get your
thinking caps on and send us some feedback!
If you would like to volunteer to head something up, don't be
shy about that, as well!
I will be out of commission for the next couple of days getting
a couple of kidney stones annihilated, but while you're sending me
money, flowers, candy, and best wishes, think about ways we can improve
the TSA.
We're all in this cave together!
Thanks!
Mark, Ellie, Michael, and Denise
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To be fair, in some cases these cavers are honoring a landowner's request to
keep quiet or keep to the same individuals.
And we have not forgotten folks' interest in the 5 Mouth Dig--we still do not
have a date that works for the landowner. PBSS will for sure announce the next
one. Jacqui
----- Original Message -----
From: mark.al...@l-3com.com
To: S S ; texascavers@texascavers.com
Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 6:47 AM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
Agreed and you're correct that there are a lot of little projects that are
conducted "by one or two people that could be included in a larger project".
--- End Message ---
