texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 15:55:08 -0000 Issue 1298
Topics (messages 17659 through 17666):
brochure
17659 by: Gill Edigar
Re: OT - back from the Sierra Tarahumara
17660 by: Preston Forsythe
Dig it
17661 by: Andy Gluesenkamp
Re: Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
17662 by: Preston Forsythe
17664 by: caverarch
17665 by: Jim Kennedy
WNS Experiments
17663 by: Mark Minton
Re: TSA Spring Meeting Minutes
17666 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
In the mid-'90s I produced a tri-fold brochure for the UT Grotto entitled: *So
you want to go caving? *It was designed to go into the 'Gimmee' slots
provided for clubs and outfitters and such at places like REI, Whole Earth
PC, Academy, climbing gyms, or just handing out to new cavers at City of
Austin Cave Day, etc. They were black-on-yellow as I recall. It was
primarily designed to attract new or potential cavers to contact the UTG or
attend their meetings.
It is my opinion that if every town with a Grotto is not pursuing such a
minimal course of recruitment they are doing a disservice to cavers, wannabe
cavers, the Grotto, the TSA, the NSS, and themselves--at least. As a local
publication it lists several local caves and who to contact to get some
instruction and how to join the local cavers. Other Texas Grottos should
have similar brochures for similar distribution and larger posters for
posting on each and every local college campus at the beginning of each
semester.
I intended to get started on republishing it for UTG about a month ago but
so far haven't located the original file. The final layout was done in
PageMaker 4 on a 3-1/2" floppy so hope I can still open it. At any rate,
it's not so extensive that it couldn't all be OCRed or reset during the
updating process. I will supply a file to anybody that wants to adapt one to
their local conditions as soon as I can find and extract it.
There are many 1st- or 2nd-time cavers who show up at Colorado Bend or other
projects who have no idea what caving life looks like outside of their own
Grotto or group of caving friends. A similar TSA information brochure that
shows the caving hierarchy (with general description and contact info) from
Independent Caver to caving club or Texas Grotto, to TSA (and other Texas
organizations), to NSS, to various international caving groups, clubs,
expeditions, etc would, I think, educate a lot of new cavers (and some older
ones) to many additional opportunities available to cavers and encourage
them to join some of those other organizations. As an added incentive, new
cavers should be sent a couple of complimentary copies (digital would be OK)
of The TEXAS CAVER to further hustle them along.
What else?
--Ediger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That was a pretty wild trip and I for one would like to hear more details when
you write it up.
Thanks for the report,
Preston Forsythe in western KY
-------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: dirt...@comcast.net
To: Cave NM ; Cave Texas
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 9:51 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] OT - back from the Sierra Tarahumara
Monday about 9 AM
Back from four days in the Sierra Tarahumara with the Mexican Consulate in
Presidio and the Tourist officials from the State of Chihuahua. Safe trip,
Great Trip, Great stories. We, along with San Antonio cavers Alan Montemayor
and Cheryl Hamilton, were fortunate to score such a wonderful VIP Trip with a
small group of Americans and Mexicans. Rode the train from Chihuahua City to
a spot south of Divisidero. The state, using funds from both state and
national tourism bureaus just opened (last October) huge 50-passanger tram
across part of the Barranca del Cobre. You can see the Rio Urique in the
bottom of the canyon. Later got down to the Barranca del Sinforosa on the Rio
Verde south of Guachochi. The Barranca del Sinforosa is larger and more
spectacular (True!!) than the canyon along the Urique that you see from
Divisidero - and still essentially undeveloped. Spent Good Friday celebrating
Easter with the Raramuri (swift runners) people - Tarahumara is the language,
Raramuri are the people. About the strangest "Christian" set of ceremonies I
have ever witnessed. We were welcomed and not treated as intruders. In the
remote town of Norogachi SE of Creel.
More later. Back to Terlingua last night - 2:30 AM this morning. Just
getting functional for the day. Send me an email if you would like a more
complete description of the trip and I'll send it along after I write it. I
have to get back to our unexpectedly interrupted construction project in
Terlingua, first.
DirtDoc
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone who wants to dig on Kiwi's Sink is welcome to contact me. Kiwi's is
currently the longest cave in Rolling Oaks (i.e. "The Caverhood") and has the
potential to tie into the massive lost caverns below the Blanco River as well
as
Jacob's Well. Well, maybe that is an extremely low potential but it is still a
promising cave. We think the BIG passage is just behind a few more rocks...
Andy
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
a...@gluesenkamp.com
________________________________
From: "mark.al...@l-3com.com" <mark.al...@l-3com.com>
To: S S <back2scool...@hotmail.com>; texascavers@texascavers.com
Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com
Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 6:47:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
Agreed and you’re correct that there are a lot of little projects that are
conducted “by one or two people that could be included in a larger project”.
This has been one of my biggest and oldest pet peeves, going all the way back
when I was a new member at the DFW Grotto.
These less than well-publicized (read “secret”?) trips to caves that only a
chosen few ever hear about or get invited on.
Surely, there’s a way to keep the amount of folks attending to a reasonable
level while still being inclusive to other cavers, new or experienced.
I don’t recall ever conducting a project weekend that was not publicized and
the
number of folks who attended was always manageable.
If you want only 6 or 8 cavers, say so!
Inclusiveness equals interest, participation, enthusiasm and a healthy
TSA/Grotto.
Cliquishness equals poor/no camaraderie, disinterest, and a loss of members.
The UT Grotto has been very good at getting new cavers underground, primarily
at
Whirlpool, which is an excellent beginner cave.
The Longhorn Project, which I am in charge of, was a blast, before and after
ICS
and helped get a lot of new cavers underground, primarily from and a big thanks
to the Aggie Grotto!
If you have a “Grotto Only” trip, surely you can advertise it on CaveTex and
allow a few more other cavers from cave poor areas of the state (read “DFW”) to
attend.
If you want to limit the size, say so, but, Publicize, Publicize, Publicize!
Mark
From:S S [mailto:back2scool...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:27 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
We need more caving trip events to local caves....Whirlpool, Airmans, Blowing
Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to
keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move
a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there
being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be
included
in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects...
________________________________
From: mark.al...@l-3com.com
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
CC: texascav...@yahoo.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
But, what can the TSA do for you!
Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would like to
solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements, likes/dislikes,
and things you would like to see the TSA do.
From Michael:
>
>What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a difference?
>Is
>there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA is the premier caving
>organization in the State? How can we make the TSA the “place to go” for all
>things caving?
>
>I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own question. It is
>more
>of a question that we need to ponder as we move into the summer months. With
>the
>exception of the Texas Caver and TSA Convention we are relatively dormant
>during
>these summer months. Perhaps we could have 2 -4 training classes at TCR in
>October. Workshops limited to the first 25 cavers on such topics as cave
>photography, vertical beginner, vertical advance, cartography beginner,
>cartography advanced.
>
>
>
>We currently have around 150 members and it has fluctuated around there since
>I
>have been an officer. The officers and I are interested in building more
>excitement and enthusiasm for the TSA, which will then bring in more members.
>
>I just attended a superb climbing class conducted by Lloyd Turnbull and the
>Cowtown Grotto. These are the type of things we’re interested in promoting and
>conducting.
>
>So now is your chance! Rather than listen to me browbeat y’all about needing
>material for The TEXAS CAVER (which, I still do!) get your thinking caps on
>and
>send us some feedback!
>If you would like to volunteer to head something up, don’t be shy about that,
>as
>well!
>
>I will be out of commission for the next couple of days getting a couple of
>kidney stones annihilated, but while you’re sending me money, flowers, candy,
>and best wishes, think about ways we can improve the TSA.
>
>We’re all in this cave together!
>
>
>Thanks!
>
>Mark, Ellie, Michael, and Denise
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would not take a new caver to Airman's (unless they weighed 170 lbs or less)
if you want them to go again. Too tight.
Same for Dead Dog Cave in Austin.
Preston Forsythe, Browder, KY
----------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: S S
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:26 AM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
We need more caving trip events to local caves....Whirlpool, Airmans, Blowing
Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to
keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move
a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there
being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be
included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think digs are a good idea if there good candidates with reliable property
access in the Austin and San Antonio areas. What do our TSS data masters think?
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: S S <back2scool...@hotmail.com>
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com
Sent: Tue, Apr 26, 2011 12:26 am
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
We need more caving trip events to local caves....Whirlpool, Airmans, Blowing
Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to
keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move
a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there
being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be
included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects...
From: mark.al...@l-3com.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
CC: texascav...@yahoo.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
But, what can the TSA do for you!
Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would like to
solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements, likes/dislikes,
and things you would like to see the TSA do.
From Michael:
What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a difference? Is
there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA is the premier caving
organization in the State? How can we make the TSA the “place to go” for all
things caving?
I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own question. It is
more of a question that we need to ponder as we move into the summer months.
With the exception of the Texas Caver and TSA Convention we are relatively
dormant during these summer months. Perhaps we could have 2 -4 training classes
at TCR in October. Workshops limited to the first 25 cavers on such topics as
cave photography, vertical beginner, vertical advance, cartography beginner,
cartography advanced.
We currently have around 150 members and it has fluctuated around there since I
have been an officer. The officers and I are interested in building more
excitement and enthusiasm for the TSA, which will then bring in more members.
I just attended a superb climbing class conducted by Lloyd Turnbull and the
Cowtown Grotto. These are the type of things we’re interested in promoting and
conducting.
So now is your chance! Rather than listen to me browbeat y’all about needing
material for The TEXAS CAVER (which, I still do!) get your thinking caps on and
send us some feedback!
If you would like to volunteer to head something up, don’t be shy about that,
as well!
I will be out of commission for the next couple of days getting a couple of
kidney stones annihilated, but while you’re sending me money, flowers, candy,
and best wishes, think about ways we can improve the TSA.
We’re all in this cave together!
Thanks!
Mark, Ellie, Michael, and Denise
=
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Digs are always a great idea, provided they are done right and with landowner
permission.
Jim Kennedy, TSS Office Manager and Director
From: caverarch [mailto:cavera...@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 10:18 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
I think digs are a good idea if there good candidates with reliable property
access in the Austin and San Antonio areas. What do our TSS data masters think?
Roger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here are a couple of articles about white-nose syndrome in
Pennsylvania and recent experiments to find chemicals to help bats
survive. Unfortunately they were improperly implemented and all the
bats involved died. :-( The video shows how ultraviolet light can
be used to visualize WNS infection, which I hadn't heard of
before.
<http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/health-science-multimedia/item/8641-bats>
Follow
up: <http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/local/item/17982-white-nose-syndrome>
Mark Minton
Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
Since you probably know by now that I was involved in an epic battle in
Del Rio between my kidney stones and morphine, which I'm happy to say
has reached a truce, and couldn't attend the Business Meeting, I thought
I would chime in.
Please delete, if you could care less!
MINUTES OF SPRING TSA BUSINESS MEETING 2 April, 2011
(Convened at TSA Spring Convention at Fort Clark Springs,
Brackettville). Submitted by Denise Prendergast
Officers Present: Ellie Thoene, Vice-Chairman; Michael Cicherski,
Treasurer; Denise Prendergast, Secretary
Officers Absent: Mark Alman, Chairman
TSA Members and Cavers in Attendance: Katie Ahrens, Ron Ralph, Diane
Ralph, Lee Jay Graves, Jacqui Thomas, Bill Russell,
Logan McNatt, Orion Knox, Carl Kunath, Linda Palit, John Moses, Marvin
Miller, Bill Bentley, Christi Burrell, Joe Ranzau, Dave
McClung, Eric Bixby, Melissa Hamilton
Welcome and Introductions/Chairman's Report: (Thoene and Cicherski).
Thoene convened meeting at 5:04 pm. Because Mark
Alman had to leave convention unexpectedly (kidney stones), she was next
in line and turning meeting over to Cicherski to run.
Cicherski said he is not good at Robert's Rules of Order, so please cut
him some slack or let him know how to proceed.
Vice-Chairman's Report: (Thoene). Thoene thanked everybody for coming to
the TSA spring convention.
Secretary's Report: (Prendergast). Minutes from the Winter Meeting were
not available so approving them was deferred to the next meeting.
Treasurer's Report: (Cicherski). Cicherski handed out a Treasurer's
Report (one table with years 2007 through 2010 and another
with monthly details for 2010). We should do OK financially at
convention, about 101 people signed up, do not yet have cooks'
expenses.
o The summary for years 2007 through 2010 showed that the TSA budgets
and actually spends anywhere from approximately $6500 to $8900 each
year. The Texas Caver is the major expense, with annual costs ranging
from approximately $2600 to
$5600.
o Through 12/31/2011, the TSA had assets of $8,775.06.
o There are 143 current paid members with 57 receiving on-line only
versions of The Texas Caver.
o Income totaled $10,040.36 for 2010, with expenses totaling $8,589.07
(positive variance of $1.451.29).
o The TSA store brought in $1,163.62 in 2010.
Standing Committee Reports
TSA Projects - (Cicherski). Jim Kennedy absent, so Marvin Miller
discussed Government Canyon. Just had their 100th trip
celebration, and it was a great success. TSA donated $150 to it, and so
did Bexar Grotto. Lots of work to do out there.
Cicherski said that Longhorn Caverns is on hold awaiting TPWD approval.
True
Ron Ralph said that Devil's River State Natural Area is now under state
control, and we are working with TPWD on an MOA to begin a karst survey.
Hope to start up in the fall. Linda Palit said we may need
a new person to head up that project, nothing official yet.
Lee Jay said that Colorado Bend State Park has had a lot of people
participating, last trip of the year in May or June.
* Inner Space Caverns Project (Starting in
September) - Planning on cranking up in September, with help from Gerry
Geletzke and James Jasek (once he recovers from his heart surgery).
TSA Website - (Cicherski). Butch Fralia absent, and Cicherski not sure
of status.
Membership Committee - (Cicherski). Ryan Monjaras absent, so Cicherski
discussed. Got about 25 renewals today, but many people are not
renewing. The officers need to see if Ryan needs help to increase
membership.
If you're interested in
helping Ryan out with this, please let me know and, please, plug the NSS
and TSA at your Grotto meetings!
It also was approved at
the TSA Winter meeting at the TSA offices that new members would receive
a TSA Texas Bat sticker, as an added goodie. New members currently
receive the latest newsletter, as well. If you haven't received yours,
let me know!
Conservation Committee - Chair not here, no comments. Open. Anyone
interested.
Safety and Techniques - Chair not here, no comments. David Ochel
conducted a Vertical Fine Tuning course during the meeting and before
supper. It was a great success, from what I heard. Thanks, David!
Publications - Chair not here, no comments. Still mailing out ~100
issues per run. Not burned out, yet, but, damn, I need material!
TSA Store - (Graves). Lee Jay said that business has been moderate at
convention. We are getting new Texas bat stickers. If anyone
wants patches, they should discuss with him. He would like a new TSA
banner. Joe Ranzau said they cost from $300 to $400. Lee Jay
asked Cicherski if he thought we could afford it, and Cicherski said
yes. A motion was made to purchase a TSA store sign for up to
$350, seconded, and it passed with no objections.
A big thanks and hats off to the TSA's
biggest unsung hero, Lee Jay, for managing the store and dragging the
contents to each caver event in Texas. Mucho gracias, Lee Jay!
Old Business
Cicherski said we already discussed Government Canyon, no other old
business.
New Business
TSA Brochure - (Cicherski). Cicherski not sure of this, so tabled until
next meeting.
We really need one, both for in print and online. Any
takers on spearheading this? Gill?
50th Issue of The Texas Caver - (Cicherski). Cicherski discussed the
background. In 2005, it was the 50th Issue of The Texas Caver.
When approached by Carl Kunath and Jerry Atkinson about the TSA covering
the costs, because it was estimated at $1200 to $1500,
the officers thought it was not a good idea. Kunath said that his email
on Texascavers (i.e. Cavetex) had summed up the main issues.
In 2004, only a few issues of The Texas Caver were produced, and the
members are owed these back issues. Chris Vreeland produced
one of the lost issues a few years back, and now Carl and Atkinson have
the last one ready. The usual printer of The Texas Caver had
quoted them a price of $5.80 per copy with a minimum order of 150
copies. With proofing and shipping costs, the total came to about
$8.22 per copy, for a total of approximately $1200 (including costs to
mail to members). He was not sure of how many members there
were in 2005, maybe 175, but some would probably not want a hard copy.
Some new members may want one. This is a
commemorative issue, a retrospect on Texas caving. Linda Palit said that
distributing it at TCR might save some costs of shipping to
members. Kunath said additional copies would be print on demand at the
same cost. He said that this issue was voted on and approved
in 2007, although costs were not discussed back then. Allan Cobb had
pledged a $300 donation by TCR. Knox said that there is a draft
being shown in the room on a computer, and it looks like the best issue
ever. Cicherski discussed that the officers had been concerned
this was an unbudgeted item for 2011, and we have a responsibility to
our members to be fiscally sound. This item would expend
nearly 15% of our current assets. Folks discussed ideas to save costs.
Cicherski said that he had heard people expressing concern that
there was a limited pool of people who got to contribute articles, and
Kunath responded that he had been soliciting articles from many
people for 3 to 4 years, and did not get back many responses. A motion
was made with various amendments to publish 150 copies of
the 50th anniversary issue, free to 2005 members, distributed first at
TCR (and then mailed to 2005 members who did not get it at
TCR), available to all TSA members on line, sold to anybody else who was
not a 2005 member (at a to-be-determined by the Board
cost). The motion was made, seconded, and passed with no objections.
I was happy to hear that this issue, in particular, and
the meeting in general was discussed in a civil, productive, and
respective manner and without any derisive comments about the TSA and
past/present officers.
Speleopolitics and general nastiness is good for nothing
and no one.
Carl and I are working with the printer on this
newsletter and an online version will be placed on the TSA website, once
Carl has shipped it to Butch.
Announcements
Ron Ralph invited folks to the TPWD meeting regarding the Devil's River
State Natural Area.
Adjourn Meeting
Cicherski made the motion to conclude meeting at6:04 pm. Seconded and
motion carried.
Thanks for your attendance, support, and interest in all things TSA!
We're all in this cave together and we're here to support all grottos,
projects, and activities related to caving in the wonderful state of
Texas!
Get involved, send me reports, and have a safe and enjoyable summer.
See you at TCR and keep posting those trip announcements!
Mark
From: Denise P [mailto:pepabe...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 11:16 AM
To: TexasCavers
Subject: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Meeting Minutes
Howdy Cavers - Enjoy!
http://cavetexas.org/PDF/TSA/Minutes-2011-04-02.pdf
<http://cavetexas.org/PDF/TSA/Minutes-2011-04-02.pdf> .
Cheers,
Denise
TSA Secretary
--- End Message ---
