texascavers Digest 28 Oct 2010 13:57:13 -0000 Issue 1180

Thu, 28 Oct 2010 06:57:38 -0700 (PDT) 

texascavers Digest 28 Oct 2010 13:57:13 -0000 Issue 1180

Topics (messages 16429 through 16435):

Robber Baron Cave on TV
        16429 by: Joe & Evelynn Mitchell

Re: Ralph Batsche -Mexico 1974
        16430 by: James McLane

Grill needed for Punkin and Deep
        16431 by: Aimee Beveridge

Re: A major concern of Texas river runners
        16432 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
        16433 by: Jon
        16435 by: Robert B

Re: Breaking News: USFWS Releases Draft National WNS Plan
        16434 by: Gill Edigar

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
        <texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com>

To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:
        <texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com>

To post to the list, e-mail:
        <texascavers@texascavers.com>


----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message --- If you are in the San Antonio area, WOAI TV (Ch 4) will be airing a segment on Robber Baron during the Friday evening 10pm news. I imagine it will be available on their website afterwards. 

They have a promo clip out already which you can see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT_W1Qv0WOE

Joe

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
The roads also feature incredibly sharp rocks that can slice up your tires.  I 
had many adventures fixing vehicles up there.  Once I sheared off the "U" bolts 
that attach the front axle to the leaf springs on one side of an International 
Scout.  I was able to reattach the axle by tying it to the springs with a 
chain.  The motorcycles were a much faster and smoother way to travel in those 
mountains than trucks, but the long distances made you worry about running out 
of gas.
Jim McLane
 
 
> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 19:51:20 -0500
> From: gi...@att.net
> To: tinker_bucksn...@live.com
> CC: mmin...@caver.net; texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Ralph Batsche -Mexico 1974
> 
> The roads were almost always bad in spots, but they've been the worst
> I've ever seen them the past few years. I remember driving
> substantially faster back in the '70s than we do now. There are only 3
> or 4 ejidos still logging so the roads get minimal maintenance. Until
> the '90s I didn't have a 4-WD vehicle but my 3/4T GMC (with granny
> gear) and later a Chevy, always made it just fine--with one notably
> muddy hairpin turn one rainy night. I had plenty of clearance. Any
> bumping I did always occurred coming down. The front suspension was
> sorta soft and the front-end cross member banged on a few rocks when
> braking was done at the wrong time. I still see 2-wd trucks up at CC
> fairly often.
> It was a great thing, by the way, that you guys did, Jim, in
> scouting that area out at that early date. Trouble now is that there
> are thousands of acres of limestone mountains up there that'll never
> have enough cavers or time to get properly checked. There could be
> dozens of cave systems like Purificacíon.
> --Ediger
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 

Don Arburn, venerable Cave Preserve Manager for TCMA's Punkin and Deep Cave 
Preserve informs me that the preserve's barbecue has died.  It i a sad occasion 
because I was planning on cooking on it for the UT Grotto Trip on 4-6 
November.   


I ask you cavers, is there a largish wood-fired grill you might donate so we 
can 
cook our fajitas? 


TCMA will write you a nice letter for your in-kind donation.  

Email me.  Thank ya'll, 

Aimee

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How many years of Goodhair can you stand? Makes me ashamed to be a Texan, albeit out of state.
 
T


Oct 27, 2010 08:01:54 PM, back2scool...@hotmail.com wrote:
Does this make any sense at all? Pay more for less property? Why would you
do this?.......

What do you want to bet this is a deal to allow a developer to purchase
the BETTER property in exchange for a GOOD DEAL on select tracks to certain
people who helped facilitate this exchange. Or something like it.

Get used to it. Its what you have to look forward to with BIG GOVERNMENT.
BIG CORRUPTION.

You should be stinking mad about this.



-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Burnett [mailto:bburne...@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 3:34 PM
To: speleoste...@tx.rr.com; Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] A major concern of Texas river runners

Bill, Thanks for the heads up. I can't believe I haven't heard about this. .

Everyone else listen up this is something in which many cavers should be
interested. There are caves on DRSNA.

Rune
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 2:34 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] A major concern of Texas river runners


Many of your know my son, Brian, who works at the downtown REI store in
Austin. He has alerted me
to a big concern of his regarding the Devil’s River State Natural Area. This

is his letter to TPWD
sent yesterday:

Dear Parks and Wildlife,

I write this to respectfully but energetically express my disagreement with
the proposed swap of the existing Devils River SNA for a smaller park that
also costs 8 million more. At present I do not feel as though the public,
myself included, has enough information to weigh in in an informed manner
regarding the merits of this proposal....

You will not find another individual that appreciates the beauty and
solitude of the existing park and river more than myself.... I have
frequented the park for 15 years, by land and by river many times.... It is
a pristine jewel in the parks system. To trade this resource in a hasty and
seemingly 'back room' manner is simply unacceptable. The people of Texas
deserve a more thorough public input period where the merits of this
proposal can be deliberated on in an open and informed manner.

Sincerely...

Brian Steele


Here’s the background information. I encourage you to also get involved:

This is a letter written by Tom Goynes, President of the Texas Rivers
Protection Association


Dear Sheila Reiter,

On October 13, I received the news release that is attached below (dated
October 12). It pertains to a plan that the Texas Parks and Wildlife
Department (TPWD) has to trade the Devils River State Natural Area (DRSNA)
plus 8 million dollars in cash for a smaller tract of land further down the
Devils River known as the Devils River Ranch (DRR). The plan was first made
³public² at a brown bag lunch that the executive director of TPWD holds
several times a year with a few representatives of various conservation
organizations (like the Sierra Club, the National Wildlife Federation and
the Audubon Society). As far as we can tell, no representatives of paddling
groups were present at that meeting.

There are some major problems that we see with this land swap:

1) The state would be losing, rather than gaining natural area (from the
current 19,988 acres down to 17,600 acres). And, while the state would be
getting more waterfront (approximately 5 miles of ³riverfront² and 5 miles
of lakefront compared with the 1.5 miles of riverfront in the DRSNA) most
of that waterfront would be flat water that is adversely affected by the
winds coming off Lake Amistad. It should also be noted that the DRR is
adjacent to the Amistad National Recreation Area, which is 58,500 acres in
size, and contains numerous opportunities for camping, hiking, boating and
other outdoor activities.

2) The 8 million dollars of additional money that the state will have to pay
to conclude this ³swap² will use up all of the land acquisition money
available to the TPWD and still leave a shortfall of 2 million dollars. (We
have been told that TPWD has 4 million dollars of land acquisition money,
they will get an anonymous gift of 2 million dollars if they swap this land,
and they will need to find the remaining 2 million dollars somewhere).

3) Even if the state can come up with the 8 million dollars to acquire this
property, they will still need to find monies to complete a management plan
(approximately $650,000) and construction and maintenance funds for this new
park. There are simply better ways for the state to spend its limited
resources.

4) The loss of the DRSNA will mean that fly-fishermen, canoeists and
kayakers wishing to run the Devils will lose the only public campsite that
currently exists between Hwy 163 and Lake Amistad. At this time, paddlers
can launch early in the morning at Bakers Crossing and make it to the
primitive camping area at the DRSNA (about 15 miles by river) before dark.
Currently, paddlers can use the DRSNA as a put in (it could be used as a
take out as well, with a change in policy) to run the ten-mile section of
river from the DRSNA to the private take out in the Blue Sage Subdivision.

We would suggest, as an alternative to this planned swap, that the state use
its limited funds to:

1) Acquire (or develop) a put in near the Hwy 163 crossing. (If the owners
of Bakers Crossing are willing to sell, that would make a great
acquisition).

2) Acquire (through purchase, lease or agreement) certain river accessible
sites that can be used by river users for lunch spots and/or campsites.
This would help eliminate many of the "trespass" issues related to running
the Devils.

3) Acquire a take out - either in the vicinity of the current Blue Sage take
out, or possibly a portion of the DRR. (Paddlers don't need 17,000 acres of
property for campsites, put ins or take outs - they need much smaller tracts
of land).

We would also suggest that the state should modify its policy at the DRSNA:

Allow paddlers to have the combination to the gate to the river access area
and allow paddlers to drive there to launch or take out their craft. Allow
paddlers to leave their vehicles in a safe area, out of the floodway, and
considerably closer to the river than the current parking area that is 1.5
miles from the river. That way, paddlers could use the DRSNA as a put in or
a take out.

It would also be helpful if the state would either put in composting toilets
at the designated primitive campsites, or mandate that river users carry out
all solid human waste. The state should encourage zero impact camping.

To help eliminate altercations between river users and landowners, it might
also be necessary for the state to instigate a river permit system for
running the Devils, which would require certain equipment (like fire pans
and portable toilets) in a manner similar to the system the National Park
System employs in Big Bend National Park.

If you agree with the above statements, it is very important that you convey
your thoughts to the TPWD. You have three possibilities to do so:

1) Plan to attend the hearing at 6 p.m. on Tuesday, October 26 in San
Antonio Texas at the Central Public Library, 600 Soledad, San Antonio, TX
(210) 207-2500

2) Plan to attend the Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission Meeting at 9
a.m. on November 4, in the Commission Hearing Room at TPWD headquarters,
4200 Smith School Road, Austin, TX 78744

3) Send a letter to Ted Hollingsworth, Texas Parks and Wildlife Department,
4200 Smith School Road, Austin, TX 78744. Or e-mail him at:
ted.hollingswo...@tpwd.state.tx.us

Your opinion is important, and we need you to express it if we are to save
our access to the Devils River. Thanks!

Tom Goynes
President
Texas Rivers Protection Association
444 Pecan Park Drive
San Marcos, TX
78666
512-392-6171
e-mail: tomgoy...@mac.com

Oct. 12, 2010
Media Contact: Tom Harvey, (512) 389-4453, tom.har...@tpwd.state.tx.us
TPWD Proposes Land Acquisition for New State Park on Devils River
AUSTIN, Texas The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission on Nov. 4 will
consider a proposal to acquire a 17,638-acre property for a new state park
on the Devils River in Val Verde County. Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
leaders will hold public meetings about the proposal Oct. 20 in Del Rio and
Oct. 26 in San Antonio.
The proposal would result in the exchange of the existing Devils River State
Natural Area as partial payment for a privately owned ranch downriver, which
would become a new state park. The ranch has significantly more river
frontage and better public access as well as outstanding natural and
cultural features.
³By repositioning our existing assets along the Devils River, we can
increase public access to and awareness of this spectacular river, as well
as expand protection of this region¹s uniquely important natural and
cultural resources,² said Carter Smith, TPWD executive director.
³A permanent conservation easement on the existing state natural area
property will prevent unsuitable development and ensure continued protection
there,² Smith said. ³The new property, which is also protected by a
conservation easement, will become a premiere park to boost the regional
economy and provide enhanced recreation options to Texans for decades to
come.²
The ranch has 10 miles of frontage on the Devils River and Amistad Reservoir
with spectacular views from mesas and canyons, and a variety of wildlife
habitats.
If the commission approves this proposal, TPWD is committed to a
comprehensive master planning process, involving a broad spectrum of
stakeholders, including landowners, paddlers, traditional park users, and
local officials, resulting in a public use plan outlining how and when
people can enjoy the property.
³The agency¹s goal is to balance landowner rights along the river with
public recreational access and effective stewardship of this region¹s
incredible natural and cultural resources,² says Scott Boruff, Deputy
Executive Director of Operations.
The department is working to inform elected officials, Devils River
landowners, key stakeholder groups and the public about the proposal. The
agency will hold two formal public meetings where they will explain the
proposal and answer questions:
6 p.m., Wednesday, Oct. 20 Del Rio Civic Center, Mesquite Room, 1915
Veteran¹s Blvd., Del Rio, TX (830-774-8641)
6 p.m., Tuesday, Oct. 26 Central Public Library, 600 Soledad, San Antonio,
TX (210) 207-2500
The public may comment on the proposal at the Nov. 4 Texas Parks and
Wildlife Commission meeting in Austin.
Questions or comments about the proposal can be sent by email to
ted.hollingswo...@tpwd.state.tx.us or by regular mail to Ted Hollingsworth,
Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, 4200 Smith School Road, Austin, TX
78744.
PHOTOS of the ranch property proposed for acquisition are available for news
media use as high resolution .jpg files that can be downloaded from the News
Images area of the TPWD website.
On the Net:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/news_images/?g=devils_river_land_acqui
sition


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.103/2558 - Release Date: 12/11/09
10:06:00


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com



---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
We get the government that we vote in.
When enough folks get tired of what Prettyhair is doing he'll get voted out.


--- On Thu, 10/28/10, tbsam...@verizon.net <tbsam...@verizon.net> wrote:


From: tbsam...@verizon.net <tbsam...@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: RE: [Texascavers] A major concern of Texas river runners
To: back2scool...@hotmail.com
Cc: bburne...@austin.rr.com, speleoste...@tx.rr.com, Texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 6:07 AM



How many years of Goodhair can you stand? Makes me ashamed to be a Texan, 
albeit out of state.
 
T


Oct 27, 2010 08:01:54 PM, back2scool...@hotmail.com wrote:

Does this make any sense at all? Pay more for less property? Why would you
do this?.......

What do you want to bet this is a deal to allow a developer to purchase
the BETTER property in exchange for a GOOD DEAL on select tracks to certain
people who helped facilitate this exchange. Or something like it. 

Get used to it. Its what you have to look forward to with BIG GOVERNMENT.
BIG CORRUPTION.

You should be stinking mad about this. 



-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Burnett [mailto:bburne...@austin.rr.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 3:34 PM
To: speleoste...@tx.rr.com; Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] A major concern of Texas river runners

Bill, Thanks for the heads up. I can't believe I haven't heard about this. .

Everyone else listen up this is something in which many cavers should be 
interested. There are caves on DRSNA.

Rune
----- Original Message ----- 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 2:34 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] A major concern of Texas river runners


Many of your know my son, Brian, who works at the downtown REI store in 
Austin. He has alerted me
to a big concern of his regarding the Devils River State Natural Area. This

is his letter to TPWD
sent yesterday:

Dear Parks and Wildlife,

I write this to respectfully but energetically express my disagreement with 
the proposed swap of the existing Devils River SNA for a smaller park that 
also costs 8 million more. At present I do not feel as though the public, 
myself included, has enough information to weigh in in an informed manner 
regarding the merits of this proposal....

You will not find another individual that appreciates the beauty and 
solitude of the existing park and river more than myself.... I have 
frequented the park for 15 years, by land and by river many times.... It is 
a pristine jewel in the parks system. To trade this resource in a hasty and 
seemingly 'back room' manner is simply unacceptable. The people of Texas 
deserve a more thorough public input period where the merits of this 
proposal can be deliberated on in an open and informed manner.

Sincerely...

Brian Steele


Heres the background information. I encourage you to also get involved:

This is a letter written by Tom Goynes, President of the Texas Rivers
Protection Association


Dear Sheila Reiter,

On October 13, I received the news release that is attached below (dated
October 12). It pertains to a plan that the Texas Parks and Wildlife
Department (TPWD) has to trade the Devils River State Natural Area (DRSNA)
plus 8 million dollars in cash for a smaller tract of land further down the
Devils River known as the Devils River Ranch (DRR). The plan was first made
³public² at a brown bag lunch that the executive director of TPWD holds
several times a year with a few representatives of various conservation
organizations (like the Sierra Club, the National Wildlife Federation and
the Audubon Society). As far as we can tell, no representatives of paddling
groups were present at that meeting.

There are some major problems that we see with this land swap:

1) The state would be losing, rather than gaining natural area (from the
current 19,988 acres down to 17,600 acres). And, while the state would be
getting more waterfront (approximately 5 miles of ³riverfront² and 5 miles
of lakefront compared with the 1.5 miles of riverfront in the DRSNA) most
of that waterfront would be flat water that is adversely affected by the
winds coming off Lake Amistad. It should also be noted that the DRR is
adjacent to the Amistad National Recreation Area, which is 58,500 acres in
size, and contains numerous opportunities for camping, hiking, boating and
other outdoor activities.

2) The 8 million dollars of additional money that the state will have to pay
to conclude this ³swap² will use up all of the land acquisition money
available to the TPWD and still leave a shortfall of 2 million dollars. (We
have been told that TPWD has 4 million dollars of land acquisition money,
they will get an anonymous gift of 2 million dollars if they swap this land,
and they will need to find the remaining 2 million dollars somewhere).

3) Even if the state can come up with the 8 million dollars to acquire this
property, they will still need to find monies to complete a management plan
(approximately $650,000) and construction and maintenance funds for this new
park. There are simply better ways for the state to spend its limited
resources.

4) The loss of the DRSNA will mean that fly-fishermen, canoeists and
kayakers wishing to run the Devils will lose the only public campsite that
currently exists between Hwy 163 and Lake Amistad. At this time, paddlers
can launch early in the morning at Bakers Crossing and make it to the
primitive camping area at the DRSNA (about 15 miles by river) before dark.
Currently, paddlers can use the DRSNA as a put in (it could be used as a
take out as well, with a change in policy) to run the ten-mile section of
river from the DRSNA to the private take out in the Blue Sage Subdivision.

We would suggest, as an alternative to this planned swap, that the state use
its limited funds to:

1) Acquire (or develop) a put in near the Hwy 163 crossing. (If the owners
of Bakers Crossing are willing to sell, that would make a great
acquisition).

2) Acquire (through purchase, lease or agreement) certain river accessible
sites that can be used by river users for lunch spots and/or campsites.
This would help eliminate many of the "trespass" issues related to running
the Devils.

3) Acquire a take out - either in the vicinity of the current Blue Sage take
out, or possibly a portion of the DRR. (Paddlers don't need 17,000 acres of
property for campsites, put ins or take outs - they need much smaller tracts
of land).

We would also suggest that the state should modify its policy at the DRSNA:

Allow paddlers to have the combination to the gate to the river access area
and allow paddlers to drive there to launch or take out their craft. Allow
paddlers to leave their vehicles in a safe area, out of the floodway, and
considerably closer to the river than the current parking area that is 1.5
miles from the river. That way, paddlers could use the DRSNA as a put in or
a take out.

It would also be helpful if the state would either put in composting toilets
at the designated primitive campsites, or mandate that river users carry out
all solid human waste. The state should encourage zero impact camping.

To help eliminate altercations between river users and landowners, it might
also be necessary for the state to instigate a river permit system for
running the Devils, which would require certain equipment (like fire pans
and portable toilets) in a manner similar to the system the National Park
System employs in Big Bend National Park.

If you agree with the above statements, it is very important that you convey
your thoughts to the TPWD. You have three possibilities to do so:

1) Plan to attend the hearing at 6 p.m. on Tuesday, October 26 in San
Antonio Texas at the Central Public Library, 600 Soledad, San Antonio, TX
(210) 207-2500

2) Plan to attend the Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission Meeting at 9
a.m. on November 4, in the Commission Hearing Room at TPWD headquarters,
4200 Smith School Road, Austin, TX 78744

3) Send a letter to Ted Hollingsworth, Texas Parks and Wildlife Department,
4200 Smith School Road, Austin, TX 78744. Or e-mail him at:
ted.hollingswo...@tpwd.state.tx.us

Your opinion is important, and we need you to express it if we are to save
our access to the Devils River. Thanks!

Tom Goynes
President
Texas Rivers Protection Association
444 Pecan Park Drive
San Marcos, TX
78666
512-392-6171
e-mail: tomgoy...@mac.com

Oct. 12, 2010
Media Contact: Tom Harvey, (512) 389-4453, tom.har...@tpwd.state.tx.us
TPWD Proposes Land Acquisition for New State Park on Devils River
AUSTIN, Texas The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission on Nov. 4 will
consider a proposal to acquire a 17,638-acre property for a new state park
on the Devils River in Val Verde County. Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
leaders will hold public meetings about the proposal Oct. 20 in Del Rio and
Oct. 26 in San Antonio.
The proposal would result in the exchange of the existing Devils River State
Natural Area as partial payment for a privately owned ranch downriver, which
would become a new state park. The ranch has significantly more river
frontage and better public access as well as outstanding natural and
cultural features.
³By repositioning our existing assets along the Devils River, we can
increase public access to and awareness of this spectacular river, as well
as expand protection of this region¹s uniquely important natural and
cultural resources,² said Carter Smith, TPWD executive director.
³A permanent conservation easement on the existing state natural area
property will prevent unsuitable development and ensure continued protection
there,² Smith said. ³The new property, which is also protected by a
conservation easement, will become a premiere park to boost the regional
economy and provide enhanced recreation options to Texans for decades to
come.²
The ranch has 10 miles of frontage on the Devils River and Amistad Reservoir
with spectacular views from mesas and canyons, and a variety of wildlife
habitats.
If the commission approves this proposal, TPWD is committed to a
comprehensive master planning process, involving a broad spectrum of
stakeholders, including landowners, paddlers, traditional park users, and
local officials, resulting in a public use plan outlining how and when
people can enjoy the property.
³The agency¹s goal is to balance landowner rights along the river with
public recreational access and effective stewardship of this region¹s
incredible natural and cultural resources,² says Scott Boruff, Deputy
Executive Director of Operations.
The department is working to inform elected officials, Devils River
landowners, key stakeholder groups and the public about the proposal. The
agency will hold two formal public meetings where they will explain the
proposal and answer questions:
6 p.m., Wednesday, Oct. 20 Del Rio Civic Center, Mesquite Room, 1915
Veteran¹s Blvd., Del Rio, TX (830-774-8641)
6 p.m., Tuesday, Oct. 26 Central Public Library, 600 Soledad, San Antonio,
TX (210) 207-2500
The public may comment on the proposal at the Nov. 4 Texas Parks and
Wildlife Commission meeting in Austin.
Questions or comments about the proposal can be sent by email to
ted.hollingswo...@tpwd.state.tx.us or by regular mail to Ted Hollingsworth,
Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, 4200 Smith School Road, Austin, TX
78744.
PHOTOS of the ranch property proposed for acquisition are available for news
media use as high resolution .jpg files that can be downloaded from the News
Images area of the TPWD website.
On the Net:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/news_images/?g=devils_river_land_acqui
sition


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.103/2558 - Release Date: 12/11/09 
10:06:00


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com



---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our 
website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: 
texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
In addition to my caving hobbies, I am a kayaker and have done the Devil's.
I want the riverside land to remain undeveloped but not at the expense of
making reasonable access impossible.  As it stands now, doing the Devils
legally, is very difficult. Unless, you are stinking rich and then you buy
your way to unlimmited access via Nature Consevancy land or via private
landowners.

This land deal does have some strong stink factor to it. I think the powers
that be do not want the general public to have *any* access to the upper and
middle Devil's River. The TPWD & DRSNA never really tried to provide access
to the river. Reluctantly, they allowed river runners to stay only one
nights stay at the river and only allowed that access if you came downriver,
no put ins or take outs. (well you can put in if you negotiate a very
expensive deal with the sole independent contractor who just might if he has
time open the gate for you). I imagine that soon, access at Bakers crossing
will go away, and the State will make it illegal to stop or access the water
from 163.

Unfortunately and with respect to Tom Goynes, President Texas Rivers
Protection Association, TPWD or any other State agency will never I repeat
never acquire additional access to Devil's River. That's dreaming in
technicolor, Its just not going to happen, ever. The rich landowners will
crush any attempt. However, the State could (if it was so inclined, which it
is not) ease up on the tresspassing tickets it hands out if you so much as
step out of your boat onto dry land along the river. I notice the state does
not enforce this law with as much zeal along any other river in the state.
Go figure.

For the record, I am a Riverfront landowner along the Medina, and I have
never had a problem with folks walking along the riverside or (canoe/kayak)
camping. The riverfront owners along the Devils are militant beyond
justification.

However, I am in agreement with Mr.Goynes that your input is needed and
would like to see those folks on Texascavers with an interest, express those
interests through the planned hearings, meetings or send in a letter.

And finally, To my friend who may have found himself in the middle of this,
I hope that you find success and happiness within your current position.  I
also hope that the oppinions expressed here (or wherever) never put you in a
bad position professionally or hurts your relationship with anybody.

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:07 AM, <tbsam...@verizon.net> wrote:

>  How many years of Goodhair can you stand? Makes me ashamed to be a Texan,
> albeit out of state.
>
> T
>
>
>
> Oct 27, 2010 08:01:54 PM, back2scool...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Does this make any sense at all? Pay more for less property? Why would you
> do this?.......
>
> What do you want to bet this is a deal to allow a developer to purchase
> the BETTER property in exchange for a GOOD DEAL on select tracks to certain
> people who helped facilitate this exchange. Or something like it.
>
> Get used to it. Its what you have to look forward to with BIG GOVERNMENT.
> BIG CORRUPTION.
>
> You should be stinking mad about this.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Burnett [mailto:bburne...@austin.rr.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 3:34 PM
> To: speleoste...@tx.rr.com; Texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] A major concern of Texas river runners
>
> Bill, Thanks for the heads up. I can't believe I haven't heard about this.
> .
>
> Everyone else listen up this is something in which many cavers should be
> interested. There are caves on DRSNA.
>
> Rune
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
>  To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 2:34 PM
> Subject: [Texascavers] A major concern of Texas river runners
>
>
> Many of your know my son, Brian, who works at the downtown REI store in
> Austin. He has alerted me
> to a big concern of his regarding the Devil’s River State Natural Area.
> This
>
> is his letter to TPWD
> sent yesterday:
>
> Dear Parks and Wildlife,
>
> I write this to respectfully but energetically express my disagreement with
>
> the proposed swap of the existing Devils River SNA for a smaller park that
> also costs 8 million more. At present I do not feel as though the public,
> myself included, has enough information to weigh in in an informed manner
> regarding the merits of this proposal....
>
> You will not find another individual that appreciates the beauty and
> solitude of the existing park and river more than myself.... I have
> frequented the park for 15 years, by land and by river many times.... It is
>
> a pristine jewel in the parks system. To trade this resource in a hasty and
>
> seemingly 'back room' manner is simply unacceptable. The people of Texas
> deserve a more thorough public input period where the merits of this
> proposal can be deliberated on in an open and informed manner.
>
> Sincerely...
>
> Brian Steele
>
>
> Here’s the background information. I encourage you to also get involved:
>
> This is a letter written by Tom Goynes, President of the Texas Rivers
> Protection Association
>
>
> Dear Sheila Reiter,
>
> On October 13, I received the news release that is attached below (dated
> October 12). It pertains to a plan that the Texas Parks and Wildlife
> Department (TPWD) has to trade the Devils River State Natural Area (DRSNA)
> plus 8 million dollars in cash for a smaller tract of land further down the
> Devils River known as the Devils River Ranch (DRR). The plan was first made
> ³public² at a brown bag lunch that the executive director of TPWD holds
> several times a year with a few representatives of various conservation
> organizations (like the Sierra Club, the National Wildlife Federation and
> the Audubon Society). As far as we can tell, no representatives of paddling
> groups were present at that meeting.
>
> There are some major problems that we see with this land swap:
>
> 1) The state would be losing, rather than gaining natural area (from the
> current 19,988 acres down to 17,600 acres). And, while the state would be
> getting more waterfront (approximately 5 miles of ³riverfront² and 5 miles
> of lakefront compared with the 1.5 miles of riverfront in the DRSNA) most
> of that waterfront would be flat water that is adversely affected by the
> winds coming off Lake Amistad. It should also be noted that the DRR is
> adjacent to the Amistad National Recreation Area, which is 58,500 acres in
> size, and contains numerous opportunities for camping, hiking, boating and
> other outdoor activities.
>
> 2) The 8 million dollars of additional money that the state will have to
> pay
> to conclude this ³swap² will use up all of the land acquisition money
> available to the TPWD and still leave a shortfall of 2 million dollars. (We
> have been told that TPWD has 4 million dollars of land acquisition money,
> they will get an anonymous gift of 2 million dollars if they swap this
> land,
> and they will need to find the remaining 2 million dollars somewhere).
>
> 3) Even if the state can come up with the 8 million dollars to acquire this
> property, they will still need to find monies to complete a management plan
> (approximately $650,000) and construction and maintenance funds for this
> new
> park. There are simply better ways for the state to spend its limited
> resources.
>
> 4) The loss of the DRSNA will mean that fly-fishermen, canoeists and
> kayakers wishing to run the Devils will lose the only public campsite that
> currently exists between Hwy 163 and Lake Amistad. At this time, paddlers
> can launch early in the morning at Bakers Crossing and make it to the
> primitive camping area at the DRSNA (about 15 miles by river) before dark.
> Currently, paddlers can use the DRSNA as a put in (it could be used as a
> take out as well, with a change in policy) to run the ten-mile section of
> river from the DRSNA to the private take out in the Blue Sage Subdivision.
>
> We would suggest, as an alternative to this planned swap, that the state
> use
> its limited funds to:
>
> 1) Acquire (or develop) a put in near the Hwy 163 crossing. (If the owners
> of Bakers Crossing are willing to sell, that would make a great
> acquisition).
>
> 2) Acquire (through purchase, lease or agreement) certain river accessible
> sites that can be used by river users for lunch spots and/or campsites.
> This would help eliminate many of the "trespass" issues related to running
> the Devils.
>
> 3) Acquire a take out - either in the vicinity of the current Blue Sage
> take
> out, or possibly a portion of the DRR. (Paddlers don't need 17,000 acres of
> property for campsites, put ins or take outs - they need much smaller
> tracts
> of land).
>
> We would also suggest that the state should modify its policy at the DRSNA:
>
> Allow paddlers to have the combination to the gate to the river access area
> and allow paddlers to drive there to launch or take out their craft. Allow
> paddlers to leave their vehicles in a safe area, out of the floodway, and
> considerably closer to the river than the current parking area that is 1.5
> miles from the river. That way, paddlers could use the DRSNA as a put in or
> a take out.
>
> It would also be helpful if the state would either put in composting
> toilets
> at the designated primitive campsites, or mandate that river users carry
> out
> all solid human waste. The state should encourage zero impact camping.
>
> To help eliminate altercations between river users and landowners, it might
> also be necessary for the state to instigate a river permit system for
> running the Devils, which would require certain equipment (like fire pans
> and portable toilets) in a manner similar to the system the National Park
> System employs in Big Bend National Park.
>
> If you agree with the above statements, it is very important that you
> convey
> your thoughts to the TPWD. You have three possibilities to do so:
>
> 1) Plan to attend the hearing at 6 p.m. on Tuesday, October 26 in San
> Antonio Texas at the Central Public Library, 600 Soledad, San Antonio, TX
> (210) 207-2500
>
> 2) Plan to attend the Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission Meeting at 9
> a.m. on November 4, in the Commission Hearing Room at TPWD headquarters,
> 4200 Smith School Road, Austin, TX 78744
>
> 3) Send a letter to Ted Hollingsworth, Texas Parks and Wildlife Department,
> 4200 Smith School Road, Austin, TX 78744. Or e-mail him at:
> ted.hollingswo...@tpwd.state.tx.us
>
> Your opinion is important, and we need you to express it if we are to save
> our access to the Devils River. Thanks!
>
> Tom Goynes
> President
> Texas Rivers Protection Association
> 444 Pecan Park Drive
> San Marcos, TX
> 78666
> 512-392-6171
> e-mail: tomgoy...@mac.com
>
> Oct. 12, 2010
> Media Contact: Tom Harvey, (512) 389-4453, tom.har...@tpwd.state.tx.us
> TPWD Proposes Land Acquisition for New State Park on Devils River
> AUSTIN, Texas The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission on Nov. 4 will
> consider a proposal to acquire a 17,638-acre property for a new state park
> on the Devils River in Val Verde County. Texas Parks and Wildlife
> Department
> leaders will hold public meetings about the proposal Oct. 20 in Del Rio and
> Oct. 26 in San Antonio.
> The proposal would result in the exchange of the existing Devils River
> State
> Natural Area as partial payment for a privately owned ranch downriver,
> which
> would become a new state park. The ranch has significantly more river
> frontage and better public access as well as outstanding natural and
> cultural features.
> ³By repositioning our existing assets along the Devils River, we can
> increase public access to and awareness of this spectacular river, as well
> as expand protection of this region¹s uniquely important natural and
> cultural resources,² said Carter Smith, TPWD executive director.
> ³A permanent conservation easement on the existing state natural area
> property will prevent unsuitable development and ensure continued
> protection
> there,² Smith said. ³The new property, which is also protected by a
> conservation easement, will become a premiere park to boost the regional
> economy and provide enhanced recreation options to Texans for decades to
> come.²
> The ranch has 10 miles of frontage on the Devils River and Amistad
> Reservoir
> with spectacular views from mesas and canyons, and a variety of wildlife
> habitats.
> If the commission approves this proposal, TPWD is committed to a
> comprehensive master planning process, involving a broad spectrum of
> stakeholders, including landowners, paddlers, traditional park users, and
> local officials, resulting in a public use plan outlining how and when
> people can enjoy the property.
> ³The agency¹s goal is to balance landowner rights along the river with
> public recreational access and effective stewardship of this region¹s
> incredible natural and cultural resources,² says Scott Boruff, Deputy
> Executive Director of Operations.
> The department is working to inform elected officials, Devils River
> landowners, key stakeholder groups and the public about the proposal. The
> agency will hold two formal public meetings where they will explain the
> proposal and answer questions:
> 6 p.m., Wednesday, Oct. 20 Del Rio Civic Center, Mesquite Room, 1915
> Veteran¹s Blvd., Del Rio, TX (830-774-8641)
> 6 p.m., Tuesday, Oct. 26 Central Public Library, 600 Soledad, San Antonio,
> TX (210) 207-2500
> The public may comment on the proposal at the Nov. 4 Texas Parks and
> Wildlife Commission meeting in Austin.
> Questions or comments about the proposal can be sent by email to
> ted.hollingswo...@tpwd.state.tx.us or by regular mail to Ted
> Hollingsworth,
> Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, 4200 Smith School Road, Austin, TX
> 78744.
> PHOTOS of the ranch property proposed for acquisition are available for
> news
> media use as high resolution .jpg files that can be downloaded from the
> News
> Images area of the TPWD website.
> On the Net:
>
> http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/news_images/?g=devils_river_land_acqui
> sition
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.103/2558 - Release Date: 12/11/09
>
> 10:06:00
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit
> our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail:
> texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Cheryl Jones <cheryl.ca...@verizon.net>
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 10:35 PM
Subject: Breaking News: USFWS Releases Draft National WNS Plan
To: siv...@listserv.vt.edu


Breaking News: USFWS Releases Draft National WNS Plan - Public Comment
Sought By Dec. 26.

Press Release Here:
http://www.fws.gov/WhiteNoseSyndrome/pdf/WNSNationalPlanNewsReleaseFinal.pdf

Draft Plan Here:
http://www.fws.gov/WhiteNoseSyndrome/pdf/WNSNational%20Plan_DRAFT_10.21.2010.pdf

Plan Fact Sheet Here:
http://www.fws.gov/WhiteNoseSyndrome/pdf/White-noseNatlPlanFSOct2010.pdf

Plan FAQ Here:
http://www.fws.gov/WhiteNoseSyndrome/pdf/NationalPlanFAQs26Oct2010.pdf

--- End Message ---

Reply via email to