texascavers Digest 26 Aug 2010 16:37:09 -0000 Issue 1140
Topics (messages 15874 through 15886):
Re: Ancient Human Skeleton Removed From Mexican Cave :
15874 by: Gill Edigar
15876 by: Louise Power
Re: Ancient Human Skeleton Removed From Mexican Cave
15875 by: Mark Minton
15877 by: Mark Minton
dog genetics
15878 by: Diana Tomchick
TAG
15879 by: ryan monjaras
15881 by: Jim Kennedy
Re: The 3rd Quarter 2010 TEXAS CAVER Is Now Online!
15880 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com
15883 by: Fritz Holt
15884 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com
Caves and the weather; old news
15882 by: Josh Rubinstein
Speaking of THE TEXAS CAVER...
15885 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com
Re: Speaking of THE TEXAS CAVER... - Correction
15886 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
At the height of the last Ice Age the Berring Strait was a piece of
land over 1000 miles wide. Sea level was over 300 feet lower than it
is now. It is speculated that most of the human beings that migrated
along that route didn't walk, they came by boats, hopping from cove to
cove along the coast. Most of their villages (and tombs and artifacts)
have not been located because they are under more than a hundred feet
of water now. A few rare burials from that period have been found in
caves (all the way down into South America) which were high enough to
be above (or in the case of this reported Mexico find, just below)
present day sea level. They push the date of early settlement of the
Americas a good bit farther back in time, well into the Ice Age, than
the terrestrial finds farther inland--as would be expected.
If we had some sort of submersible habitat, say a gutted ship hull
that could be inverted and sunk over these inundated archeological
sites then filled with pressurized air like a caisson so diggers could
live down there for a month or so at a time whilst excavating those
sites in the relatively dryness of the habitat it would be a boon to
our knowledge of these early coastal people who first settled in the
Americas perhaps 30,000 years ago.
--Ediger
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 2:58 AM, <jerryat...@aol.com> wrote:
> Ancient Human Skeleton Removed From Mexican Cave
>
> MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - The remains of a prehistoric child were removed from
> an underwater cave in Mexico four years after divers stumbled upon the
> well-preserved corpse that offers clues to ancient human migration.
>
> The skeletal remains of the boy, dubbed the Young Hol Chan, are more than
> 10,000 years old and are among the oldest human bones found in the Americas.
>
> The corpse was discovered in 2006 by a pair of German cave divers who were
> exploring unique flooded sandstone sinkholes, known as cenotes, common to
> the eastern Mexican state of Quintana Roo.
>
> Scientists spent three years studying the remains where they lay before
> deciding it was safe to bring the skeleton to the surface for further study,
> according to the Mexican National Institute for Anthropology and History.
>
> The institute is coordinating a study of early human migration to eastern
> Mexico that aims to deepen understanding of the movement of people across
> the Bering Strait at the end of the last Ice Age.
>
> The Young Hol Chan, named after the cenote where he was discovered, was
> found in a darkened cave 27 feet beneath the surface.
>
> (Reporting by Patrick Rucker; editing by Todd Eastham)
>
> http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=11473831
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not sure that this would be a particularly good idea. I recently read a
book on the recovery of the "Ice Man" on the Swiss/Italian border. He had been
in the glacier for thousands of years. Upon his recovery, he and his artifacts
had to be taken to a clean lab under special care because they began to
deteriorate fairly soon. Bacteria also attacked the corpse.
I've also read several books and articles about the recovery of artifacts from
the Mediterranean. They also have to be treated and sometimes kept under water
to deter deterioration.
Louise
I'm drowning and monkeys dressed like lifeguards are throwing me anvils. Dilbert
> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 07:37:14 -0500
> From: gi...@att.net
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Ancient Human Skeleton Removed From Mexican Cave :
>
> At the height of the last Ice Age the Berring Strait was a piece of
> land over 1000 miles wide. Sea level was over 300 feet lower than it
> is now. It is speculated that most of the human beings that migrated
> along that route didn't walk, they came by boats, hopping from cove to
> cove along the coast. Most of their villages (and tombs and artifacts)
> have not been located because they are under more than a hundred feet
> of water now. A few rare burials from that period have been found in
> caves (all the way down into South America) which were high enough to
> be above (or in the case of this reported Mexico find, just below)
> present day sea level. They push the date of early settlement of the
> Americas a good bit farther back in time, well into the Ice Age, than
> the terrestrial finds farther inland--as would be expected.
>
> If we had some sort of submersible habitat, say a gutted ship hull
> that could be inverted and sunk over these inundated archeological
> sites then filled with pressurized air like a caisson so diggers could
> live down there for a month or so at a time whilst excavating those
> sites in the relatively dryness of the habitat it would be a boon to
> our knowledge of these early coastal people who first settled in the
> Americas perhaps 30,000 years ago.
> --Ediger
>
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 2:58 AM, <jerryat...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Ancient Human Skeleton Removed From Mexican Cave
> >
> > MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - The remains of a prehistoric child were removed from
> > an underwater cave in Mexico four years after divers stumbled upon the
> > well-preserved corpse that offers clues to ancient human migration.
> >
> > The skeletal remains of the boy, dubbed the Young Hol Chan, are more than
> > 10,000 years old and are among the oldest human bones found in the Americas.
> >
> > The corpse was discovered in 2006 by a pair of German cave divers who were
> > exploring unique flooded sandstone sinkholes, known as cenotes, common to
> > the eastern Mexican state of Quintana Roo.
> >
> > Scientists spent three years studying the remains where they lay before
> > deciding it was safe to bring the skeleton to the surface for further study,
> > according to the Mexican National Institute for Anthropology and History.
> >
> > The institute is coordinating a study of early human migration to eastern
> > Mexico that aims to deepen understanding of the movement of people across
> > the Bering Strait at the end of the last Ice Age.
> >
> > The Young Hol Chan, named after the cenote where he was discovered, was
> > found in a darkened cave 27 feet beneath the surface.
> >
> > (Reporting by Patrick Rucker; editing by Todd Eastham)
> >
> > http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=11473831
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>The corpse was discovered in 2006 by a pair of German cave divers
who were exploring unique flooded sandstone sinkholes, known as
cenotes, common to the eastern Mexican state of Quintana Roo.
><http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=11473831>
It is pretty unlikely that the cenote is in
sandstone. Limestone is far more likely.
Mark Minton
Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
According to Jim Coke, head of the Quintana Roo
Speleological Survey (QRSS), the proper name of the cave is Cenote
Chan Hol, rather than Hol Chan. He also sends two additional links
to the story:
<http://www.artdaily.com/index.asp> click on More for full story.
<http://www2.esmas.com/noticierostelevisa/cultura/> Click on headline
for full story. There's also a downloadable PDF.
Mark Minton
At 03:58 AM 8/25/2010, jerryat...@aol.com wrote:
<http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=11473831>
Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Today's issue of Nature magazine includes a News report about the
analysis of genes in various dog breeds to identify genetic causes for
neuropsychiatric diseases in humans (and dogs, of course).
http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100825/pdf/4661036a.pdf
If you're unable to download the PDF, contact me and I'll forward it
to you.
How is this related to caving? Lots of cavers like to bring their dogs
to TCR, and some of them are neurotic (dogs or cavers, you decide).
Diana
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)
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--- Begin Message ---
Anyone going to TAG this year?
"Semper Exploro" Ryan MonjarasMaverick GrottoCowtown GrottoDFW
Grotto(832)754-5778
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--- Begin Message ---
Ryan, a bunch of Texas cavers have already been to TAG (the area) this
year. If you mean the TAG Fall Cave-in (the event), then you need to be
more specific.
-- Crash
From: ryan monjaras [mailto:trog...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:41 PM
To: texas cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] TAG
Anyone going to TAG this year?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice issue of the Texas Caver, Mark ! Keep up the good work.
Jerry.
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--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
I echo Jerry's sentiments. We all look forward to reading this great
publication each quarter. It is well done and has topics of interest to
everyone. I noticed the absence of Carbide Corner. I presume this was due to
lack of space or lack of a submission. I do plan to submit something on a
"Spelunking Trilogy" from the 1950's before the next deadline.
Fritz
________________________________
From: jerryat...@aol.com [mailto:jerryat...@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:39 AM
To: mark.al...@l-3com.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The 3rd Quarter 2010 TEXAS CAVER Is Now Online!
Nice issue of the Texas Caver, Mark ! Keep up the good work.
Jerry.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the kind words, Jerry and Fritz!
I sincerely enjoy editing the newsletter and plan on doing so for the
foreseeable future, unless y'all cut my pay!
There wasn't a Carbide Corner this issue, as I haven't received any
submissions, despite my begging and pleas.
If you are a "chronologically challenged" caver (there's getting to be more and
more of them every year), and have an exciting, memorable, embarrassing,
humorous, or borderline litigious story you would like to share, send it my way!
We have a lot of new cavers and older ones (like me) alike that may not know
much about the history and exploits of early caving and cavers in Texas and we
would like to read your stories!
Get them sent in and I WILL print them.
I haven't turned anyone down, yet, and I'll be looking forward to your piece,
Fritz!
Thanks,
Mark
________________________________
From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com]
Sent: Thu 8/26/2010 10:15 AM
To: 'jerryat...@aol.com'; Alman, Mark @ EOS; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] The 3rd Quarter 2010 TEXAS CAVER Is Now Online!
Mark,
I echo Jerry's sentiments. We all look forward to reading this great
publication each quarter. It is well done and has topics of interest to
everyone. I noticed the absence of Carbide Corner. I presume this was due to
lack of space or lack of a submission. I do plan to submit something on a
"Spelunking Trilogy" from the 1950's before the next deadline.
Fritz
________________________________
From: jerryat...@aol.com [mailto:jerryat...@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:39 AM
To: mark.al...@l-3com.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The 3rd Quarter 2010 TEXAS CAVER Is Now Online!
Nice issue of the Texas Caver, Mark ! Keep up the good work.
Jerry.
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--- Begin Message ---
This talk will be presented at Trinity Unversity, San Antonio in the Coates
University Center.
Dr. Harold Rowe (University of Texas at Arlington) is giving a talk on
“Eastern North American Climates of the Past 600,000 Years and Their
Linkages to Global Climate Changes: The Perspective from Cave Records” on
Tuesday, September 14 in Fiesta Room at 4:30 PM. There will be a reception
with refreshments prior to the talk. Dr. Rowe is an expert in
Paleoclimatology and Paleooceanography. He utilizes a combination of field
observations and geochemical analysis to examine the evolution of climate
and ocean systems over time. This presentation is sponsored by the Lecturers
and Visiting Scholars Committee, Geosciences, Biology, Chemistry and Physics
and Astronomy.
Josh
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--- Begin Message ---
Just in time for TCR and Christmas:
A whole CD of back issues of The TEXAS CAVER will be available for
purchase by YOU for a measly $10.
Cheap!
The TSA Officers and I have agreed to make these back issues available
as a fundraising project for the TSA to all who want a peek at the dim,
dark past of Texas caving, reaching back over 50 years!
The CD currently contains issues dating all the way back to October,
1955, beginning with issue Volume 0, Number 1.
There is a gap from 1955 to 1974, and then every issue from 1974 thru
1988 is present and accounted for your reading pleasure.
All 20 back issues that are currently on the TSA website will also be
included.
There is some very good stuff in these back issues, including some
hilarious cartoons, "unique" covers, excellent articles, great
photography, and commentary from such well known luminaries at Speleo T.
Agnew.
I would like to make this collection as thorough and complete as
possible, so if any of you past editors have issues that you worked on
that you would like included, get them to me ASAP for inclusion.
I will be taking pre-orders for these and will have your copy available
at TCR, as well as extra copies at the TSA Store for sale.
We also will have back issues in hard copy form available for purchase
and, all you Grottos, if you would like some back issues for your Grotto
Libraries, as well as copies available to hand out to new and existing
members, see Logan and Lee Jay, as they would love to give you a stack
of back issues.
Logan, in particular, would love to help y'all spread the word on caving
in Texas, as you would be helping him get is garage back!
Thanks and let me know if y'all would like a copy.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The sentence below should read, "There is a gap from 1955 to 1974, and
then every issue from 1974 thru 1998 is present and accounted for your
reading pleasure."
Not 1974 thru 1988.
D'oh!
Thanks,
Mark
From: Alman, Mark @ EOS
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 11:35 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Speaking of THE TEXAS CAVER...
Just in time for TCR and Christmas:
A whole CD of back issues of The TEXAS CAVER will be available for
purchase by YOU for a measly $10.
Cheap!
The TSA Officers and I have agreed to make these back issues available
as a fundraising project for the TSA to all who want a peek at the dim,
dark past of Texas caving, reaching back over 50 years!
The CD currently contains issues dating all the way back to October,
1955, beginning with issue Volume 0, Number 1.
There is a gap from 1955 to 1974, and then every issue from 1974 thru
1988 is present and accounted for your reading pleasure.
All 20 back issues that are currently on the TSA website will also be
included.
There is some very good stuff in these back issues, including some
hilarious cartoons, "unique" covers, excellent articles, great
photography, and commentary from such well known luminaries at Speleo T.
Agnew.
I would like to make this collection as thorough and complete as
possible, so if any of you past editors have issues that you worked on
that you would like included, get them to me ASAP for inclusion.
I will be taking pre-orders for these and will have your copy available
at TCR, as well as extra copies at the TSA Store for sale.
We also will have back issues in hard copy form available for purchase
and, all you Grottos, if you would like some back issues for your Grotto
Libraries, as well as copies available to hand out to new and existing
members, see Logan and Lee Jay, as they would love to give you a stack
of back issues.
Logan, in particular, would love to help y'all spread the word on caving
in Texas, as you would be helping him get is garage back!
Thanks and let me know if y'all would like a copy.
Mark
--- End Message ---
