texascavers Digest 28 Aug 2010 16:44:40 -0000 Issue 1141
Topics (messages 15887 through 15901):
TC on CD
15887 by: Mixon Bill
Re: mine rescue in Chile
15888 by: David
15893 by: Louise Power
15894 by: Brian Riordan
15896 by: David
15898 by: Geary Schindel
15899 by: Louise Power
Re: Speaking of THE TEXAS CAVER...
15889 by: Gill Edigar
15892 by: George Veni
Re: Ancient Human Skeleton Removed From Mexican Cave
15890 by: James C. Brown, 321-895-4875 (DID/GV), 206-339-4616 (VM/FAX)
Caves in the News: Sibudu Cave
15891 by: David
Re: Ancient Human Skeleton Removed From Mexican Cave :
15895 by: Bob Booth
UT Grotto meeting September 1, 2010
15897 by: Gary Franklin
digital camera relate
15900 by: David
Re: Cave Lighting Install
15901 by: Charles Goldsmith
Administrivia:
To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
<texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com>
To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:
<texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com>
To post to the list, e-mail:
<texascavers@texascavers.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
Excellent. If help is needed scanning issues to fill the gap, I could
work on that. I have very few issues from the gap myself, though. --
Mixon
----------------------------------------
Home is that place where, when you have to go there, they have to take
you in.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rescuers are planning to lower a metal basket down the tube for the
victims to be stand in.
Surely, some knowledgeable cavers can explain a better way to do this.
Somebody on that rescue team needs a quick tour of the shaft at Honeycreek!
I would use a cordura bag shaped like a mummy sleeping bag, and hand
sew webbing reinforcement, and
heavy duty webbing lifting straps. Coat it with a good lubricant.
I bet B&C Wunderwear could come
up with an ingenious suit for the victims to wear.
Also, they victims need to be pulled out in groups of 8. Right?
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since the hole they're planning will only be 24" in diameter, I think groups of
8 is not feasible.
> From: dlocklea...@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:13:20 -0500
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: [Texascavers] Re: mine rescue in Chile
>
> Rescuers are planning to lower a metal basket down the tube for the
> victims to be stand in.
>
> Surely, some knowledgeable cavers can explain a better way to do this.
>
>
> Somebody on that rescue team needs a quick tour of the shaft at Honeycreek!
>
>
> I would use a cordura bag shaped like a mummy sleeping bag, and hand
> sew webbing reinforcement, and
> heavy duty webbing lifting straps. Coat it with a good lubricant.
> I bet B&C Wunderwear could come
> up with an ingenious suit for the victims to wear.
>
> Also, they victims need to be pulled out in groups of 8. Right?
>
> David Locklear
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think David meant groups of eight *pieces*. That's why a bag would be
better suited.
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Louise Power <power_lou...@hotmail.com>wrote:
> Since the hole they're planning will only be 24" in diameter, I think
> groups of 8 is not feasible.
>
> > From: dlocklea...@gmail.com
> > Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:13:20 -0500
> > To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> > Subject: [Texascavers] Re: mine rescue in Chile
>
> >
> > Rescuers are planning to lower a metal basket down the tube for the
> > victims to be stand in.
> >
> > Surely, some knowledgeable cavers can explain a better way to do this.
> >
> >
> > Somebody on that rescue team needs a quick tour of the shaft at
> Honeycreek!
> >
> >
> > I would use a cordura bag shaped like a mummy sleeping bag, and hand
> > sew webbing reinforcement, and
> > heavy duty webbing lifting straps. Coat it with a good lubricant.
> > I bet B&C Wunderwear could come
> > up with an ingenious suit for the victims to wear.
> >
> > Also, they victims need to be pulled out in groups of 8. Right?
> >
> > David Locklear
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> >
>
--
Brian Riordan
979-218-8009 (Mobile)
riordan.br...@gmail.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would send down a skinny caver at the 1st possible chance to give the
miners some encouragement that everything is going to be alright.
Anybody know a caver that would go down a 2,200 foot deep tube that
will hopefully be 12 inches in diameter or more?
Or does the diameter need to be bigger first? I guess it would suck
if they got jammed near the bottom of the drill hole.
I see no reason why they should have to be in the dark, or not have enough
water, if there is an access tube to reach them.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Given a choice between a canvas bag and a steel bucket, I think I would take
the steel bucket with a top cover any day. If you think about anything coming
down a 2,000 foot deep shaft, I think you're going to want some steel over your
head.
Regarding the time issue for drilling, this is not an easy hole to drill. In
addition, you have to create a road to the drill site, create a large enough
drill platform to work, and move all your equipment and materials to the site.
This is not going to be an easy task. Some of this may already be done since
they've already drilled a small hole at the site. Should be interesting to
follow over the coming month.
Geary
From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 3:59 PM
To: David Locklear; Texas Cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: mine rescue in Chile
Since the hole they're planning will only be 24" in diameter, I think groups of
8 is not feasible.
> From: dlocklea...@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:13:20 -0500
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: [Texascavers] Re: mine rescue in Chile
>
> Rescuers are planning to lower a metal basket down the tube for the
> victims to be stand in.
>
> Surely, some knowledgeable cavers can explain a better way to do this.
>
>
> Somebody on that rescue team needs a quick tour of the shaft at Honeycreek!
>
>
> I would use a cordura bag shaped like a mummy sleeping bag, and hand
> sew webbing reinforcement, and
> heavy duty webbing lifting straps. Coat it with a good lubricant.
> I bet B&C Wunderwear could come
> up with an ingenious suit for the victims to wear.
>
> Also, they victims need to be pulled out in groups of 8. Right?
>
> David Locklear
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yesterday on the news, it showed them moving the big drill onto the site. The
problem seems to be that the rock is not in good condition and they have to go
slowly (probably shoring up as they go) to keep the whole thing from collapsing
again.
I saw the miners on GMA this morning and they seem to be in good spirits even
though they know now it's going to take roughly 90 days or so to get to them
and get them out. I thought it was interesting that one of the first things
they asked for was toothbrushes. They've already appointed spiritual,
organizational and medical leaders and someone sent down a small video cam so
that they could communicate with the outside--especially their families.
The only disturbing thing this morning was the clip on the news that the
company probably can't pay their salaries and is going bankrupt.
Louise
From: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
To: power_lou...@hotmail.com; dlocklea...@gmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:04:55 -0500
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: mine rescue in Chile
Given a choice between a canvas bag and a steel bucket, I think I would take
the steel bucket with a top cover any day. If you think about anything coming
down a 2,000 foot deep shaft, I think you’re going to want some steel over your
head.
Regarding the time issue for drilling, this is not an easy hole to drill. In
addition, you have to create a road to the drill site, create a large enough
drill platform to work, and move all your equipment and materials to the site.
This is not going to be an easy task. Some of this may already be done since
they’ve already drilled a small hole at the site. Should be interesting to
follow over the coming month.
Geary
From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 3:59 PM
To: David Locklear; Texas Cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: mine rescue in Chile
Since the hole they're planning will only be 24" in diameter, I think groups of
8 is not feasible.
> From: dlocklea...@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:13:20 -0500
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: [Texascavers] Re: mine rescue in Chile
>
> Rescuers are planning to lower a metal basket down the tube for the
> victims to be stand in.
>
> Surely, some knowledgeable cavers can explain a better way to do this.
>
>
> Somebody on that rescue team needs a quick tour of the shaft at Honeycreek!
>
>
> I would use a cordura bag shaped like a mummy sleeping bag, and hand
> sew webbing reinforcement, and
> heavy duty webbing lifting straps. Coat it with a good lubricant.
> I bet B&C Wunderwear could come
> up with an ingenious suit for the victims to wear.
>
> Also, they victims need to be pulled out in groups of 8. Right?
>
> David Locklear
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think I have a damned near complete set from 55 to 74--maybe one or
two issues misplaced. I can finally get to the boxes they are stored
in.
--Ediger
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 11:35 AM, <mark.al...@l-3com.com> wrote:
>
>
> Just in time for TCR and Christmas:
>
>
>
>
>
> A whole CD of back issues of The TEXAS CAVER will be available for purchase
> by YOU for a measly $10.
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheap!
>
>
>
>
>
> The TSA Officers and I have agreed to make these back issues available as a
> fundraising project for the TSA to all who want a peek at the dim, dark
> past of Texas caving, reaching back over 50 years!
>
>
>
>
>
> The CD currently contains issues dating all the way back to October, 1955,
> beginning with issue Volume 0, Number 1.
>
>
>
>
>
> There is a gap from 1955 to 1974, and then every issue from 1974 thru 1988
> is present and accounted for your reading pleasure.
>
>
>
> All 20 back issues that are currently on the TSA website will also be
> included.
>
>
>
> There is some very good stuff in these back issues, including some hilarious
> cartoons, “unique” covers, excellent articles, great photography, and
> commentary from such well known luminaries at Speleo T. Agnew.
>
>
>
>
>
> I would like to make this collection as thorough and complete as possible,
> so if any of you past editors have issues that you worked on that you would
> like included, get them to me ASAP for inclusion.
>
>
>
>
>
> I will be taking pre-orders for these and will have your copy available at
> TCR, as well as extra copies at the TSA Store for sale.
>
>
>
>
>
> We also will have back issues in hard copy form available for purchase and,
> all you Grottos, if you would like some back issues for your Grotto
> Libraries, as well as copies available to hand out to new and existing
> members, see Logan and Lee Jay, as they would love to give you a stack of
> back issues.
>
>
>
> Logan, in particular, would love to help y’all spread the word on caving in
> Texas, as you would be helping him get is garage back!
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks and let me know if y’all would like a copy.
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The plan approved at the TSA meeting was for the past issues to also be
posted on the Karst Information Portal (www.karstportal.org) and that I
would send all of the missing issues to the University of South Florida
(USF) from my collection for digitization. This got delayed because USF
became heavily involved in the gulf oil spill.
Mark's message prompted me to check on their status (I would send USF my TCs
after they finished with the other material I've already sent them). I'll be
sending the missing issues to them on Tuesday.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gill
Edigar
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:15
To: mark.al...@l-3com.com
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Speaking of THE TEXAS CAVER...
I think I have a damned near complete set from 55 to 74--maybe one or
two issues misplaced. I can finally get to the boxes they are stored
in.
--Ediger
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 11:35 AM, <mark.al...@l-3com.com> wrote:
>
>
> Just in time for TCR and Christmas:
>
>
>
>
>
> A whole CD of back issues of The TEXAS CAVER will be available for
purchase
> by YOU for a measly $10.
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheap!
>
>
>
>
>
> The TSA Officers and I have agreed to make these back issues available as
a
> fundraising project for the TSA to all who want a peek at the dim, dark
> past of Texas caving, reaching back over 50 years!
>
>
>
>
>
> The CD currently contains issues dating all the way back to October, 1955,
> beginning with issue Volume 0, Number 1.
>
>
>
>
>
> There is a gap from 1955 to 1974, and then every issue from 1974 thru 1988
> is present and accounted for your reading pleasure.
>
>
>
> All 20 back issues that are currently on the TSA website will also be
> included.
>
>
>
> There is some very good stuff in these back issues, including some
hilarious
> cartoons, unique covers, excellent articles, great photography, and
> commentary from such well known luminaries at Speleo T. Agnew.
>
>
>
>
>
> I would like to make this collection as thorough and complete as possible,
> so if any of you past editors have issues that you worked on that you
would
> like included, get them to me ASAP for inclusion.
>
>
>
>
>
> I will be taking pre-orders for these and will have your copy available at
> TCR, as well as extra copies at the TSA Store for sale.
>
>
>
>
>
> We also will have back issues in hard copy form available for purchase
and,
> all you Grottos, if you would like some back issues for your Grotto
> Libraries, as well as copies available to hand out to new and existing
> members, see Logan and Lee Jay, as they would love to give you a stack of
> back issues.
>
>
>
> Logan, in particular, would love to help yall spread the word on caving
in
> Texas, as you would be helping him get is garage back!
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks and let me know if yall would like a copy.
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Links for articles.
<http://www.artdaily.com/index.asp?int_sec=4>
<http://www.artdaily.com/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=40187>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11086110
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The cheap way?
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/08/26/inside-a-nevada-fami.html#more
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 8:37 AM, Gill Edigar <gi...@att.net> wrote:
> At the height of the last Ice Age the Berring Strait was a piece of
> land over 1000 miles wide. Sea level was over 300 feet lower than it
> is now. It is speculated that most of the human beings that migrated
> along that route didn't walk, they came by boats, hopping from cove to
> cove along the coast. Most of their villages (and tombs and artifacts)
> have not been located because they are under more than a hundred feet
> of water now. A few rare burials from that period have been found in
> caves (all the way down into South America) which were high enough to
> be above (or in the case of this reported Mexico find, just below)
> present day sea level. They push the date of early settlement of the
> Americas a good bit farther back in time, well into the Ice Age, than
> the terrestrial finds farther inland--as would be expected.
>
> If we had some sort of submersible habitat, say a gutted ship hull
> that could be inverted and sunk over these inundated archeological
> sites then filled with pressurized air like a caisson so diggers could
> live down there for a month or so at a time whilst excavating those
> sites in the relatively dryness of the habitat it would be a boon to
> our knowledge of these early coastal people who first settled in the
> Americas perhaps 30,000 years ago.
> --Ediger
>
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 2:58 AM, <jerryat...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Ancient Human Skeleton Removed From Mexican Cave
> >
> > MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - The remains of a prehistoric child were removed
> from
> > an underwater cave in Mexico four years after divers stumbled upon the
> > well-preserved corpse that offers clues to ancient human migration.
> >
> > The skeletal remains of the boy, dubbed the Young Hol Chan, are more than
> > 10,000 years old and are among the oldest human bones found in the
> Americas.
> >
> > The corpse was discovered in 2006 by a pair of German cave divers who
> were
> > exploring unique flooded sandstone sinkholes, known as cenotes, common to
> > the eastern Mexican state of Quintana Roo.
> >
> > Scientists spent three years studying the remains where they lay before
> > deciding it was safe to bring the skeleton to the surface for further
> study,
> > according to the Mexican National Institute for Anthropology and History.
> >
> > The institute is coordinating a study of early human migration to eastern
> > Mexico that aims to deepen understanding of the movement of people across
> > the Bering Strait at the end of the last Ice Age.
> >
> > The Young Hol Chan, named after the cenote where he was discovered, was
> > found in a darkened cave 27 feet beneath the surface.
> >
> > (Reporting by Patrick Rucker; editing by Todd Eastham)
> >
> > http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=11473831
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Underground Texas Grotto meeting September 1, 2010 The meeting is on
Wednesday from 7:45 P.M. - 9:00 P.M. University of Texas Campus in 2.48
Painter Hall http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/pai.html Dr. Bill
Stone will be presenting "Rebreathers" Bill, founder of the United States
Deep Caving Team http://www.usdct.org/ , has pioneered technologies that
have expanded the limits of underground exploration. The desire to push
subterranean cave systems beyond water filled sumps over a thousand meters
below the surface forced the development of new equipment that was light and
rugged enough to forge on further than ever before. Come out for an exciting
talk about the adventures evolving around rebreather development from a true
explorer, engineer, and inventor. For information on Underground Texas
Grotto activities, please see www.utgrotto.org All of our information
including officer contact info, trips reports, new caver training, event
calendar, and posting links to beginner trips or vertical rope training are
available. Before the meetings, some may go to Sao Paulo
www.saopaulos.netfor happy hour specials. After the official meeting,
we continue the
tradition to reconvene for burgers, beer, and tall tales of caving at Posse
East. www.posse-east.com The UT Grotto needs you, the caver with photos and
a story to share about your adventures, scientific research, or something
else really cool. Contact Gary caver.g...@gmail.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone in the market for an inexpensive camera should check out:
Samsung TL-500Z.
It is under $ 400 at Fry's.
Optional flashes cost $ 150 & $ 300.
David Locklear
sent via Motorola Rambler on BoostMobile's $ 53 a month unlimited plan.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll be at Cascade Caverns over labor day weekend working on the lights
again. If anyone is interested in helping out with the project, please let
me know.
This is a great way to get out of the heat and underground.
I know a few months ago that a film and dive crew went down to the lower
cave that is off-trail from the tours, but I never heard what came of the
trip. Did the sump go anywhere?
Charles
On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Scott Kyle <sk...@cascadecaverns.com>wrote:
> We've got the rest of the Summer open to all who'd like to come and help
> clean, install lighting and do a little exploring as well. It's really
> starting to look good.
>
> Go to: http://www.doodle.com/bah4t9d7r2657sw2 and sign up for mornings
> and/or afternoons. Ideally two or more folks will be there at the same time
> - and that can be designed through the scheduling tool linked above.
>
> Scott Kyle (804)402-8985
> Cascade Caverns
>
--- End Message ---
