texascavers Digest 6 Jun 2010 19:37:36 -0000 Issue 1070

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 6 Jun 2010 19:37:36 -0000 Issue 1070

Topics (messages 15007 through 15022):

Re: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?
        15007 by: Gill Edigar
        15008 by: Fritz Holt
        15009 by: Fritz Holt
        15011 by: Nico Escamilla
        15013 by: Rod Goke
        15022 by: A. Wertheim

Mexican drugs: just say no
        15010 by: Andy Gluesenkamp

Causes of the both the 2007 & 2010 Guatemalan sinkholes :
        15012 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com

Help request: Move the brush pile
        15014 by: William H. Russell

Re: Passing of a caver
        15015 by: bcow911.satx.rr.com

update "Passing of a Caver"
        15016 by: bcow911.satx.rr.com

June meeting
        15017 by: J. LaRue Thomas

Re: Rebecca
        15018 by: Logan McNatt

WTB - Caving Gear Before China
        15019 by: Floyd Hebert

Re: gear for caving for long term China trip
        15020 by: David

extreme caving ?
        15021 by: David

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
        <texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com>

To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:
        <texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com>

To post to the list, e-mail:
        <texascavers@texascavers.com>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

--- Begin Message ---

1st, I agree with Nico. Period.
2nd, The whole thing is caused by a demand for illegal drugs in the US.
Without that demand there would be no drug smuggling of any sort.
3rd, the solution is to simply make those drugs legal and put the smugglers
out of business.
4th, instead of executing all illegal drug users we should execute all drug
abusers--of legal or illegal drugs. That would include a whole lot of
geezers who are doing their own personal drug abuse programs and enriching
the big international legal drug cartels. As a lot of those geezers (not all
by any means) are overly conservative and intent on telling other people how
to live righteously we would be better off having them off the voting roles,
as well. Those drug users who are not drug abusers, of course, would be free
to be free. Free to grow their own drugs; free to use their own drugs; free
to do whatever they want so long as they are not abusing their fellow
Americans--be they from North Americans or South Americans.
--Ediger

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 11:55 AM, <cavera...@aol.com> wrote:

> How about back to caving?
>
>
> <<Back to lurking..>>
>
>
>
>

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Whoever initiated this dumb string should have at least put it on OT.

F.

________________________________
From: cavera...@aol.com [mailto:cavera...@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 11:56 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

How about back to caving?

<<Back to lurking..>>

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

My sentiments precisely.

Fritz - NRA life member and law abiding citizen.

________________________________
From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 11:47 AM
To: Nico Escamilla
Cc: caveran...@yahoo.com; Cavetex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

Those weren't attachments, those were inline links since the email came through 
HTML formatted :)

Governments can't stop guns if bad guys want to get them.  All they can do is 
stop the honest citizen from getting them.

Charles
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Nico Escamilla 
<pitboun...@gmail.com<mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still 
asleep or something?

with that behind let me just say a couple things:
first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL
second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this 
is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)
third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about 
violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side 
where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed because 
yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the 
world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.

back to my corner

Nico

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, 
caveran...@yahoo.com<mailto:caveran...@yahoo.com> 
<caveran...@yahoo.com<mailto:caveran...@yahoo.com>> wrote:




--
Bill
Del Rio, TX

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Dont get me wrong y'all.. Im pro gun, own several and use them responsibly..
I just dont like it when people start ranting about the violence in my neck
of the woods and how it can start affecting them when they (or their
government for that matter) are also to blame.

Yes, legalizing drugs would really help (that would create a massive public
health problem but I digress) is it going to happen? not in this lifetime
and specially not in this continent where the authorities have gotten in bed
with the drug lords, so to speak.. legalizing will mean that
politicians/authorities will no longer be able to fill their pockets with
bribe money so it'd be like slaughtering the cow thats giving you the milk.

In short if you wanna blame it on somebody, do it on the germans.. they're
the ones who started all of this, for those of you that didnt know, they
started bribing mexican authorities  during WWII to let them smugle drugs
into the states so that the gringo youth would get hooked on them, why? to
make them not want to go to war of course...

if anyone else feels like continuing this thread, please take it to the OT
list. I will not respond to it if it comes to cavetex.

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

The question of fault: Is it the United States' fault for banning drugs and creating a lucrative demand for criminals to smuggle drugs northwards, or is it Mexico's fault for banning guns and creating a lucrative demand for criminals to smuggle guns southward? That issue ranks right up there with life's other great questions, like "Which blade of the scissors is responsible for the cutting?" A serious question about gun sources for Mexican criminals: Some people, especially some in the Mexican government, have complained that Mexican criminals are obtaining guns by smuggling them from the U.S. into Mexico, and there is evidence indicating that this is true to some degree. There also have been many news reports indicating that organized criminal gangs in Mexico have been able to bribe, intimidate, or otherwise induce significant numbers of Mexican police and military personnel to work for the criminals. This, of course, does not imply that all, or even most, of the Mexican police or military personnel are corrupt, but the reports do seem to indicate that the gangs have been able to buy enough influence of this type to be a major and growing problem in portions of Mexico. In this case, I wonder how many of the military and police style weapons flowing to Mexican criminals are coming from corrupt sources in the Mexican police and military and, hence, would continue to be available to criminals there even if all gun smuggling from the United States were eliminated. Not surprisingly, the Mexican government doesn't say much, if anything, about this aspect of the problem, but for anyone seriously interested in how criminals are getting guns in Mexico, it is important to understand how many guns are coming through each channel instead of just pointing fingers across the border at convenient scapegoats. Rod

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

If your people didnt provide the demand then maybe it wouldnt be such a 
problem.  Maybe you should just legalize it.
Arron
From: Nico Escamilla
[mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] 

Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM

To: caveran...@yahoo.com

Cc: Cavetex

Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
Heard?
I
thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still asleep
or something?withthat behind let me just say a couple things:first,
read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NLsecond
this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this is like
the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)third
most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about
violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side
where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed because
yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.thingswouldnt 
be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the world,
or my country wasnt located right next to it.backto my corner
Nico
                                          
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Man, this topic is like herpes.  I've said it before and I'll say it again:  
Don't buy Mexican drugs.  Don't let your friends buy them, and don't do them if 
offered.  Nancy Reagan was right on this one.
 
Remember when folks were all freaked out about paraquot?  The stuff they are 
selling now is SOAKED IN BLOOD.  That's much worse than paraquot and it won't 
wash off your hands no matter how much you scrub.

Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
a...@gluesenkamp.com

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

As many of you that are interested have probably read, there is a lot of  
geo-babble going on as to what is the cause of the recent sinkhole in 
Guatemala.  I've actually read accounts from geologists speculating that it's 
karst 
related  due to the presence of limestone underlying the city (which is 
totally false).  The most reputable explanation that I've seen is the 
following, from a fellow  that helped in the investigation of the 2007 sinkhole 
that 
occurred in Guatemala  City.  The 2007 sinkhole was very similar in form and 
proximity to the 2010  sinkhole and they most likely share a common cause.  
I've also attached a  2007 news report that addresses the cause of the 2007 
sinkhole and references  Haddox's input into the site investigation.
 
 
Eric Haddox says:
_June 5, 2010 at 1:38 am_ 
(http://cnmnewsnetwork.com/117945/guatemala-sinkhole-2010-guatemala-city-pictures-photos-video/comment-page-1/#comment-26846)
 
I was an advisor for the 2007 sinkhole and we had determined that the  
sinkhole was caused by large storm drainage pipes that were far below the  
surface in poorly compacted fill. Possibly seismic activity sheared the  
connection of these collector pipes with a large junction box. This saturation/ 
 
erosion of the soil slowly ate away at the soil and eventually, after a large  
rain the top portion of the ground finally sheared and fell into the already 
 existing cavern. There were already talks that this would happen again but 
what  could really be done about these very old pipes so far under the 
ground and how  can you find a sinkhole developing on the outside of a cracked 
pipe or further  determine the extent of the possible sinkhole. This was 
further complicated by  the nature of Guatemalan government and lack of 
resources to investigate these  kinds of issues. If you look, this hole from 
2010 
looks very similar to the hole  in 2007 and if you look at the location of the 
center of the new sinkhole you  can notice that it is in the middle of the 
road where a manhole would naturally  be. I am not involved in the 
investigation of the 2010 hole but I was living in  Guatemala and present for 
the 
investigation of the 2007 hole. 
Broken stormwater drain led  to Guatemala sinkhole
 
>From Wikinews, the free news source you can  write!
Tuesday, March 6, 2007
 
 
(http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/File:Guatemala_city_sinkhole_2007_composite_view.jpg)
  
 
 
(http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/File:Guatemala_city_sinkhole_2007_composite_view.jpg)
 
Composite  image of the sinkhole, as on March 6, 2007.
Source:Eric  Haddox


A rupture in the underground stormwater drain system opened a huge sinkhole 
 on February 23, killing three people and bringing down twelve houses in  
Guatemala City. 
Teenagers Irma and David Soyos and their father, 53-year old Domingo Soyos  
were killed when their house collapsed into the sinkhole. Nearly a thousand 
 people were evacuated from the San Antonio neighborhood after the 
collapse. 
Wikinews interviewed Eric Haddox, a civil engineer who has visited the site 
 of the sinkhole and spoken to the engineers working on fixing the drain. 
Mr.  Haddox, who specialises in the building of earthworks, roads, water 
supply and  sewage systems, and is working as a missionary in Guatemala, 
visited 
the site  following the collapse to help in the recovery effort. 
Mr. Haddox told us that the size of the hole is much smaller than the 330  
feet depth originally reported and that the erosion causing the collapse is  
believed to have happened over a long time, and not just during the recent 
rains  as initially suspected. 
There are also concerns that a four-story building less  than a metre from 
the edge of the hole may collapse as the earth under the  building continues 
to be eroded.
Trouble brewing over  years
Before the collapse, a junction box linked two collector pipes to a 3.5m 
main  pipe leading to a nearby canyon in a system believed to be 20 to 50 
years old.  The surrounding earth had been filled in artificially to level the 
ground, but  the fill was not well compacted before being built upon. Such 
leveling of the  ground is widespread in Guatemala city. 
It is thought that, at some point in the last 20 years, either one of the  
collector pipes ruptured or was detached from the junction box, possibly 
because  of seismic activity. Water gushing out of the break following 
rainstorms  gradually eroded the loosely compacted soil, creating an expanding 
cavern around  the junction box. On February 23, the roof of this cavern 
collapsed, creating  the sinkhole, 20m wide at the top and tapering out towards 
the 
bottom, which is  about 60m (204 feet) deep, not 330 feet as originally 
reported. 
"Things like this don't happen often and there are many interesting  
engineering lessons to be learned with them", Mr. Haddox said. 
The sinkhole has continued to expand even after the collapse, since the  
collector pipes continue to carry water, which cascades 15m down the sinkhole 
to  the main pipe, further eroding the sides of the sinkhole. The hole was 
about 25m  wide at the top and 40m wide at the bottom a week ago. 
A bypass pipe is being laid to divert the water away  from the junction to 
arrest further erosion. The sinkhole will then have to be  drained before 
repair work can begin.
Authorities are also concerned that similar breakages and  undermining may 
be happening at other locations, Mr. Haddox said. Muddy  water has been seen 
coming out of the main collector pipes, but it is not  certain whether this 
is due to ruptures elsewhere or simply mud from the surface  that has been 
washed into the drainage system. 
_http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Broken_stormwater_drain_led_to_Guatemala_sinkho
le_ 
(http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Broken_stormwater_drain_led_to_Guatemala_sinkhole) 

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

OK, Folks,

our neighborhood is having its large brush collection on 28 June. Katie and William are drowning in large brush -- in better years, William would have cut, compacted, and composted it, but that just didn't happen this year. Right now there's the better part of a loosely packed small dumpster out on the west 40 (AKA backyard).

Would anyone be interested in helping us cut, haul, and stack on Saturday, 26th, starting in the AM? It's lugustrum, chinaberry, and pecan windfall. Most of the damage would be cutting things no more than 8" in diameter to the legal size of 6 feet, but we also have stuff that would appeal to chain saw enthusiasts (a 20-foot downed chinaberry, very very dry, and a couple of large limbs to be lopped off of trees in places where they are likely to fall on people), if you bring your own chainsaw.

Contact me and katie (k.ar...@mail.utexas.edu) off-list if you'd like to devote a couple or four hours to the cause. We can provide beverages, but only one pruning hook and saw, so bring handtools if you have them.

thanks,
william
--
William Hart Russell
4806 Red River Street
Austin, TX  78751
H: 512-453-4774 (messages)
CELL:  512-940-8336

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Bob,

Did this go out on cavetex?
 
> From: fhutch...@satx.rr.com
> To: franhutch...@hotmail.com
> Subject: Fw: Passing of a caver
> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 23:02:17 -0500
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <bcow...@satx.rr.com>
> To: <trent.a.da...@gmail.com>; <christine.colli...@tpwd.state.tx.us>; 
> <gv...@nckri.org>; <tr...@sprynet.com>; <gschin...@mindspring.com>; 
> <joemitch...@satx.rr.com>; <ibaca...@hotmail.com>; <fhutch...@satx.rr.com>; 
> <stre...@swri.org>; <renee.skw...@gmail.com>; <calcoteelect...@yahoo.com>; 
> <ics09...@yahoo.com>; <tomflo...@yahoo.com>; <donarb...@mac.com>; 
> <jbpdel...@aol.com>; <dhogena...@msn.com>; <gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org>; 
> <jran...@gmail.com>; <stephengutti...@juno.com>; <fher...@swri.edu>; 
> <rlcorb...@hotmail.com>; <km...@mac.com>; <an...@kinzy.com>; 
> <kitt...@hotmail.com>; <lisaacantr...@gmail.com>; <bcow...@satx.rr.com>; 
> <ba...@alumni.utexas.net>; <ventureman...@juno.com>; <c...@boernenet.com>; 
> <c.benn...@chfbc.org>; <tris...@aol.com>; <geo...@nincehelser.com>; 
> <dsauche...@juno.com>; <loverh...@satx.rr.com>; <ffehrib...@sprintmail.com>; 
> <lkpa...@sbcglobal.net>; <cnv...@sbcglobal.net>; <amontema...@swri.edu>; 
> <dmk...@gmail.com>; <jill...@swbell.net>; <niki.l...@tpwd.state.tx.us>; 
> <mlmil...@gvtc.com>; <thecave...@yahoo.com>; <gi...@bcad.org>; 
> <caper...@swbell.net>; <kars...@gmail.com>; "'Pete Strickland'" 
> <pstrickla...@austin.rr.com>; "DAVID K BAMBERGER" <dk.bamber...@gmail.com>
> Cc: <an...@kinzy.com>; <renee.skw...@gmail.com>; <kars...@gmail.com>; 
> "DON/EDITH BERGQUIST" <doned...@sbcglobal.net>; "DONNA BALIN" 
> <ba...@alumni.utexas.net>; "Emily McGowan" <em...@sbcglobal.net>; "J DAVID 
> BAMBERGER" <se...@tstar.net>; "Joel King" <km...@mac.com>; "MELISSA WATKINS" 
> <melissa1...@satx.rr.com>; <rebeccaajo...@earthlink.net>; "STEEL BILL" 
> <okste...@aol.com>; "TERRY HOLSINGER" <tr...@sprynet.com>; "TRISH WILSON" 
> <tris...@aol.com>; "VENI GEORGE" <gv...@warpdriveonline.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 6:49 PM
> Subject: Passing of a caver
> 
> 
> > It takes great pains to inform you of the passing of Rebecca Hutchins. 
> > Rebecca lost her battle to cancer and die early this morning. She wished 
> > to be creamated. Arrangement have not been finalized as yet.Request 
> > donations be made to TCMA in lieu of Flowers.I loved being around her and 
> > I'll miss her greatly. I'll get back to you with more info as things 
> > progress bob
> > 
> 
                                          
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4

--- End Message ---

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

A lot of folks are asking for more info on Rebecca-O'Daniel-Hutchins. I 
included her previous last name as some folks don't recognize her as 
Hutchins..... Fran will meet with the minister again on monday and will 
finalize everything. He is pushing for a service on June 19th a Saturday, 
hopefully around 10:30 am with a snack time following the service in the 
FellowShip hall. The service will only be the service with no speaches just the 
service. Those wishing to express there feelings can do so at the wake 
following the service .Services will be held at the Alamo Heights Presp. Church 
on Broadway. I'll try my best to keep everyone informed. It was requested by 
Rebecca prior to her passing that any money for flowers should be donated to 
TCMA.

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Greetings, all cavers and caver wannabes,

The June meeting of the Permian Basin will be held this Tuesday, June 8th, at 7:00 pm at Murray's Delicatessen which is located at 3211 West Wadley in Midland. Once again we will be in the back room.

Topics of discussion: Bill's Excellent Adventure June 12th. Also some discussion on the possibility of a NM NSS Convention and what PBSS wants to do about it. And anything else.

I will be at Camp Sol Mayer training my climbing staff. Should be fun.

So this month for further information do not contact Jacqui Thomas.

You may contact Bill Bentley ca...@caver.net or Walter Feaster wdfeas...@sudddenlink.net .

PBSS web page:
http://www.caver.net/pbss/pbss.html

The Permian Basin Speleological Society was founded in October 1983 and was chartered as the 300th grotto of the National Speleological Society on January 18, 1984. The Permian Basin Speleological Society is an affiliated Grotto or Caving club with the Texas Speleological Association and the Southwestern Region of the National Speleological Society and supports the cave conservation ethics of the National Speleological Society.

National Speleological Society web page:
http://www.caves.org/

Texas Speleological Association web page:
http://www.cavetexas.org

Southwestern Region of the NSS web page:

http://www.caves.org/region/swr/
--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message --- This is very sad and shocking news. I did not know Rebecca was sick. My sincere condolences to Fran and Rebecca's families and friends.

Logan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
bcow...@satx.rr.com wrote:

A lot of folks are asking for more info on Rebecca-O'Daniel-Hutchins. I included her previous last name as some folks don't recognize her as Hutchins..... Fran will meet with the minister again on monday and will finalize everything. He is pushing for a service on June 19th a Saturday, hopefully around 10:30 am with a snack time following the service in the FellowShip hall. The service will only be the service with no speaches just the service. Those wishing to express there feelings can do so at the wake following the service .Services will be held at the Alamo Heights Presp. Church on Broadway. I'll try my best to keep everyone informed. It was requested by Rebecca prior to her passing that any money for flowers should be donated to TCMA.

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

I am leaving for China within the next 6-7 months, and would like
purchase all new gear before I move. Gear is very hard to purchase in
China, so I would like to have everything I need before I go. I may be
there for a good number of years, so I would like to get good quality
gear that lasts. I am not very qualified at the moment, so information
and opinions about basic, vertical, and other potentially necessary
gear is highly appreciated. Maybe someone could provide a list of
needed gear essential and luxury and then people could offer their
opinions. Other possibly unknown variable or barriers associated with
caving in China are also very much appreciated.

Thanks
Floyd

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Isn't it all made in China ???

I bet you will find LED headlamps over there cheap that are modern or
even better
than what we have here at our retail stores.    But if you can afford
a Stenlight, then get
one.

If you are going to the really big caves, you will need lots of light,
meaning you
will need lots of batteries, or someway to charge a set of
rechargeable batteries
while in a remote area.     I bet you can find cheap batteries over there.

Look for a mining apparel distributor like this one in Shandong:

     http://www.tradeindia.com/fp354662/Mining-Helmet.html

Unless you are meeting up with cavers, you should try one of the eco-tourism
cave sites, or semi-commercial caves:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwhtg63OTSM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy-hT-aU4GE&feature=related

There is a cave over there where you ride a bicycle on a high wire,
a 1,000 feet over the pit.    That would be cool.   It may be this one:
( check out those crazy parachuters ! )

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RmL4RxyOXk

You need to custom tailor a nylon caving suit before going,
and make it baggy enough so that if you get cold, you can wear some synthetic
long-johns underneath.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/10/30/article-1081666-0248C31E000005DC-41_468x679.jpg


Bass Pro Shops has a new LED flashlight that cost $ 90 and has 3 bright LED's
that has a high and low switch.    It looks promising for taking into
big passage.

     
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_10205235_325007004_325000000_325007000_325-7-4&hvarAID=vantage&hvarEID=

[ I hope to post a report on this as soon as I can get one. ]

My must-have list would include a pair of lightweight neoprene socks (
not scuba booties ).

    
http://www.patagonia.com/tsimages/49625_155.fpx?wid=360&hei=360&ftr=8&effect=dropshadow,0x000000,10,8,120,8&cvt=jpeg

I bet a large Swaygo pack would work well in a cave over there.

     http://www.swaygogear.com/sinkpack.htm

A Petzl Transport Pack would be nice:

     
http://s7ondemand1.scene7.com/is/image/MoosejawMB/PAAAIAHAFDPIOAOM_zm?$product325$

But for only $ 35, you can get a PVC pack at Costco that will be satisfactory.

Your choice of boots is subjective, but it is a critical piece of gear
that is often overlooked.
While a lot of cavers over there seem to use the big rubber industrial
boots, I would recommend you get some ( plain toe ) PVC boots that
lace up, and get them a 1/2 inch big, so you can wear extra neoprene
socks.

     http://www.gemplers.com/product/127507/Lace-up-6-PVC-Plain-Toe-Boots

That is a $ 25 investment that you can't go wrong by, for any type of
stream passage.

There are 2 headlamps that are under $ 30 that I recommend.    One is
at Gander Mountain
and sold under the Cyclops label.    Another is a Pelican product
sometimes found at
Army Surplus stores.

     
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110505062983&rvr_id=&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=WXS%3F&GUID=0bd9ee441290a0e203f6c756fd88a48d&itemid=110505062983&ff4=263602_263622

     http://www.amazon.com/Headsup-Lite-2640-3-Led/dp/B0006Z7O1W

If you are really planning on getting wet in the caves, you might
consider this one:

     
http://www.amazon.com/2680C-Pelican-HeadsUp-Recoil-Flashlight/dp/B001N3WN2G/ref=pd_sim_dbs_sg_4

You need to ask some cavers that go over there what the carbide
availability is.   It might
be more economical to use a carbide headlamp.

There seems to be lots of cavers posting things about China.    Here is just one
example:

     http://www.hongmeigui.net/members.php?member=mikefutrell

So they might be willing to give you some tips.

I would think that instead of flying your gear over there on your flight,
that it would be cheaper to ship it some how.   I think UPS does that.
You don't want them to lose this package, so pay for all the security stuff.

I hope that helps.     Disclaimer:    Never been to China, but sure do want to
go see some of those caves.

David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County, Texas

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

I don't know what the official definition is of extreme caving, but I
doubt it is
as crazy as what this guy is doing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQITWbAaDx0

--- End Message ---