texascavers Digest 11 Jun 2010 15:55:41 -0000 Issue 1075
Topics (messages 15071 through 15077):
Tour Guide Position
15071 by: Scott Kyle
Re: TPWD WNS policy
15072 by: Jim Kennedy
15074 by: Andy Gluesenkamp
Re: WNS in Texas
15073 by: Josh Rubinstein
Re: Another Way to Die in a Cave
15075 by: Keith Goggin
15076 by: Geary Schindel
15077 by: Diana Tomchick
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Boerne, TX , 6/11/2010:
Looking for a full-time tour guide with great communication skills and
significant cave research and/or experience under their belts. This position
would also be responsible for coordination of volunteers for in-cave and
above-cave projects as well as their own projects.
We're also looking for a beginner tour guide with an interest in caves for the
Summer, part or full time.
Please email CV and statement of interest to:
Scott Kyle ([email protected])
Scott Kyle, AIA, LEED
Vice President
(830) 755-8080 office, (804) 402-8985 cell
www.cascadecaverns.com
See Texas Downunder: RV & Tent Camping and Cave Tours Daily
226 Cascade Caverns Rd, Boerne, Texas 78015
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Mark,
Caves that have bats are not necessarily "bat caves." And caves lacking
bats are not necessarily NOT "bat caves." I can explain the differences
later if anyone is interested, but it will probably be a long and boring
explanation. But in this case, based on our meeting with TPWD a couple
of weeks ago, we are talking specifically about entry into Gorman Cave,
Devils Sinkhole, Stuart Bat Cave, Fawcetts Cave, and one or two others.
Caves with a random tri-colored bat or two are (so far) not on this
list.
-- Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 7:14 AM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Texas Parks & Wildlife -- policy re WNS
Can anyone clear up this line below? Does this mean closing all caves
occupied by bats, i.e., Gorman Cave and others?
<snip> But we intend to highly restrict entry into bat caves at TPWD
sites.
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Yes, and the few caves on WMAs are closed to public access as well. We are
trying to strike a balance between doing nothing, doing something just to show
that we are doing something, and doing something that will make a positive
difference. The catchy refrain that I have been humming through all
discussions on the topic is that responsible cavers are our best line of
defense. Not only can we serve as an early detection network, but we can play
amajor role in getting the word out to the public, using our skills and
knowledge to aid research, and making sure that this issue is considered a high
priority by resource agencies.
AGG
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
[email protected]
--- On Fri, 6/11/10, Jim Kennedy <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Jim Kennedy <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] RE: TPWD WNS policy
To: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Friday, June 11, 2010, 9:31 AM
Mark,
Caves that have bats are not necessarily "bat caves." And caves lacking
bats are not necessarily NOT "bat caves." I can explain the differences
later if anyone is interested, but it will probably be a long and boring
explanation. But in this case, based on our meeting with TPWD a couple
of weeks ago, we are talking specifically about entry into Gorman Cave,
Devils Sinkhole, Stuart Bat Cave, Fawcetts Cave, and one or two others.
Caves with a random tri-colored bat or two are (so far) not on this
list.
-- Jim
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Mark,
I may be jumping the gun but I just watched WNS pit cavers against state
park and wildlife officials in Virginia. Cooperative relationships that
were built over years are now defensive, at the least.
We know next to nothing about WNS. We do not know how it is transported.
We do not know how long it takes to show up. We do not know how it kills.
All we know is Geomyctes is present and that WNS kills. When TPWD
"restricts access" to its caves, they are trying to put a barrier between
the disease and the bats, not as a long term management plan, but to buy
some time until we know enough to have an effective strategy. I would guess
the reason they say restrict, and not close, is because they will need us to
collect the necessary data. That may include getting a baseline inventory,
collecting samples, and even, yes, mapping caves. When we meet with those
whose job it is to protect the bats, I would rather we discuss a strategy to
save them than argue over "restricted access".
Josh
On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 7:54 AM, mark gee <[email protected]> wrote:
> 2 cents:
> I guess this means that our Colorado Bend project might have to be posponed
> until this WNS is over. The Texas Parks and Wildlife memo said that caves
> with bats would be closed to entry. Alot of the caves at CBSP dont have bats
> and the caves we are surveying, it is not always known weather they have
> bats or not. Some caves have been explored and mapped and bats not seen.
> Will we be able to visit these caves? I hope that we will still be able to
> visit those but on the side of caution, these too may be closed. This is a
> serious situation. We must all do our part to try to contain this WNS. I
> hope that our warmer caves here might isolate our Texas caves from the WNS.
> I would like to here what the rest of you think and hear some of your
> comments.
> Mark G
> Happy Caving!
>
>
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Ha! Yeah, it only took one shot, but we were trying to get *all* the caves in
the county mapped (and as far as I know we did!). I think we mapped at least
two that were even shorter - although one of those actually has two entrances.
________________________________
From: Mark Minton <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, June 10, 2010 4:10:47 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Another Way to Die in a Cave
Keith,
You mapped a 17-foot long cave?! Sounds like a candidate
for Ediger's list of shortest caves. :-)
Mark
At 04:38 PM 6/10/2010, Keith Goggin wrote:
>Wow! I mapped that little cave about 25 years ago when we published
>the Roanoke County Cave Survey (that one was one of the smallest!).
>
>The matress was there then too.
>
>Keith
>
>From: Mark Minton <[email protected]>
>To: Texascavers <[email protected]>
>Sent: Thu, June 10, 2010 1:57:08 PM
>Subject: [Texascavers] Another Way to Die in a Cave
>
> Here's another way to die in a cave: by
> fire. <http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/249700>
>
>Mark Minton
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I know of two other issues with fire related to cavers.
There was a trip into Hidden River Cave Complex in Kentucky in the mid 80's
when some cavers - I think Phi Odel and Duke Hopper were the trip leaders, when
the ceiling of a crawlway caught on fire and blue flames were burning for about
100 feet along the ceiling. They quickly crawled out of the crawlway, some
leaving their packs behind, and managed to escape with only minor injuries.
The source of the flames turned out to be a leaking propane distribution tank
on the surface.
The second event dates back to when folks used to use flames on their heads for
light in caves. I think Don Coons and Sherri Engler were exploring a small pit
in the Mammoth Cave area when they accidently set some leaf litter on fire on
the surface before entering the cave. It probably smoldered and then finally
caught on fire while they exploring the cave. When they went to exit the cave,
the tree their cable ladder was rigged to was on fire along with about an acre
of woods around the cave. They figure their carbide lamp probably set the
blaze. They managed to get to the surface and put out the tree before their
webbing melted and exit the area to call for firefighting assistance.
I have also walked up to a cave in Kentucky that was out gassing gasoline from
a leaking underground storage tank about a mile away. However, the
explosimeter said the mixture was too rich to explode so we were safe. It was
a large enough area that it would have made a very serious air/gas explosion
had it caught on fire. We didn't hang around long.
Geary
From: Keith Goggin [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 10:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Another Way to Die in a Cave
Ha! Yeah, it only took one shot, but we were trying to get *all* the caves in
the county mapped (and as far as I know we did!). I think we mapped at least
two that were even shorter - although one of those actually has two entrances.
________________________________
From: Mark Minton <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, June 10, 2010 4:10:47 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Another Way to Die in a Cave
Keith,
You mapped a 17-foot long cave?! Sounds like a candidate
for Ediger's list of shortest caves. :-)
Mark
At 04:38 PM 6/10/2010, Keith Goggin wrote:
>Wow! I mapped that little cave about 25 years ago when we published
>the Roanoke County Cave Survey (that one was one of the smallest!).
>
>The matress was there then too.
>
>Keith
>
>From: Mark Minton <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
>To: Texascavers
><[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
>Sent: Thu, June 10, 2010 1:57:08 PM
>Subject: [Texascavers] Another Way to Die in a Cave
>
> Here's another way to die in a cave: by
> fire. <http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/249700>
>
>Mark Minton
Please reply to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
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--- Begin Message ---
Any cave found so close to the downtown of a major city could be
considered a significant cave, even if only 17 feet long. It appears
to have been a significant shelter for the poor person who perished in
the fire.
Diana
On Jun 11, 2010, at 10:05 AM, Keith Goggin wrote:
Ha! Yeah, it only took one shot, but we were trying to get *all*
the caves in the county mapped (and as far as I know we did!). I
think we mapped at least two that were even shorter - although one
of those actually has two entrances.
From: Mark Minton <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, June 10, 2010 4:10:47 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Another Way to Die in a Cave
Keith,
You mapped a 17-foot long cave?! Sounds like a candidate
for Ediger's list of shortest caves. :-)
Mark
At 04:38 PM 6/10/2010, Keith Goggin wrote:
>Wow! I mapped that little cave about 25 years ago when we published
>the Roanoke County Cave Survey (that one was one of the smallest!).
>
>The matress was there then too.
>
>Keith
>
>From: Mark Minton <[email protected]>
>To: Texascavers <[email protected]>
>Sent: Thu, June 10, 2010 1:57:08 PM
>Subject: [Texascavers] Another Way to Die in a Cave
>
> Here's another way to die in a cave: by
> fire. <http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/249700>
>
>Mark Minton
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: [email protected]
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)
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