texascavers Digest 12 Jul 2010 13:13:15 -0000 Issue 1099
Topics (messages 15359 through 15369):
another cave diver fatality
15359 by: David
above ground cave
15360 by: David
15361 by: John Brooks
15364 by: Gill Edigar
15368 by: Mark Minton
video of S�tano de El Popoca
15362 by: Mixon Bill
Party Bye Moni and Welcome to new Life.
15363 by: Espeleo Coahuila
July 13th Meeting of PBSS
15365 by: J. LaRue Thomas
NSS Convention travel suggestions from TX
15366 by: David
15369 by: Gill Edigar
Re: airfare to Vermont
15367 by: David
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--- Begin Message ---
http://www.ocala.com/article/20100709/ARTICLES/7091005/1402/NEWS?Title=Marion-woman-dies-while-cave-diving
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/07/09/1722485/woman-dies-while-cave-diving.html
http://suwanneedemocrat.com/breakingnews/x1907081764/67-YEAR-OLD-WOMAN-IS-CAVE-DIVING-FATALITY
In other news related to caves:
( continued from a story a few weeks ago )
http://www.roanoke.com/news/breaking/wb/253146
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--- Begin Message ---
[ I can't find anything to write about this week ]
Here is a good example of an above ground cave:
http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/9239967.jpg
At least, according to the photographer.
Note that underground is one word, but "above ground" is 2 words. I
presume there
is some English grammar rule that causes that.
However, it is also written "above-ground cave" on at least one
cave-diving web-site,
as referring to a submerged cave that was once above the water table.
Here is a web-site using the phrase:
http://web.me.com/kirkbergey/Crevices_and_Caves/Bruce.html
I guess the idea behind this phrase is that the cave stays horizontal
as you enter the
entrance, and that when hiking to the cave you never descend into a
ravine or canyon.
Maybe the general public and the media have a Hollywood image of a cave
ingrained in their thought process, where the cave is a large entrance
that you easily
walk into and there is a large room with flat floors. So that when
they see a cave
that goes downward into the earth, they refer to it as an "underground cave."
The cave below might be an example of what the general public means when they
use this phrase:
http://www.castlehill.net.nz/castlehill/cavestream/cavestream.htm
( I think I could do that cave ! )
I can't think of a good example of anything that I would call an above
ground cave.
"Enchanted Rock Cave" doesn't seem to qualify. Rock shelters don't seem to
qualify, either.
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--- Begin Message ---
The grotto bar atop the caravan of dreams in fort worth is an above ground
cave....and maybe the "highest" above ground cave in the known universe.
Does anyone keep a list of highest known above ground caves?
Would we have to survey this cave to get it on the list.
These are all questions that we should know the answers!
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 10, 2010, at 1:25 AM, David <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:
[ I can't find anything to write about this week ]
Here is a good example of an above ground cave:
http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/9239967.jpg
At least, according to the photographer.
Note that underground is one word, but "above ground" is 2 words. I
presume there
is some English grammar rule that causes that.
However, it is also written "above-ground cave" on at least one
cave-diving web-site,
as referring to a submerged cave that was once above the water table.
Here is a web-site using the phrase:
http://web.me.com/kirkbergey/Crevices_and_Caves/Bruce.html
I guess the idea behind this phrase is that the cave stays horizontal
as you enter the
entrance, and that when hiking to the cave you never descend into a
ravine or canyon.
Maybe the general public and the media have a Hollywood image of a cave
ingrained in their thought process, where the cave is a large entrance
that you easily
walk into and there is a large room with flat floors. So that when
they see a cave
that goes downward into the earth, they refer to it as an "underground cave."
The cave below might be an example of what the general public means when they
use this phrase:
http://www.castlehill.net.nz/castlehill/cavestream/cavestream.htm
( I think I could do that cave ! )
I can't think of a good example of anything that I would call an above
ground cave.
"Enchanted Rock Cave" doesn't seem to qualify. Rock shelters don't seem to
qualify, either.
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--- Begin Message ---
Part of the problem, David, is that you are looking in the wrong
direction. Above ground caves are everywhere.
Consider, for a simple example, that you are at Bustamante near the
natural cave entrance. If you look across the canyon you can see a
possible entrance on the far side. I don't know if it ever did, but
most people would have no trouble with the idea that those two
entrances were once connected by cave passage before the canyon
transected them. Essentially, they are the same cave. Now, using a
second premise that caves are air filled voids we could say that the 2
Bustamante caves are still connected by an air filled void. The cave
is still there--above ground--it's just that the rocks are gone which
defined the walls. The rock walls are gone but the air filled cave is
as snug in it's location as it ever was--and above ground, to boot.
--Ediger
On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 1:25 AM, David <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [ I can't find anything to write about this week ]
>
>
>
> Here is a good example of an above ground cave:
>
>
> http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/9239967.jpg
>
> At least, according to the photographer.
>
> Note that underground is one word, but "above ground" is 2 words. I
> presume there
> is some English grammar rule that causes that.
>
> However, it is also written "above-ground cave" on at least one
> cave-diving web-site,
> as referring to a submerged cave that was once above the water table.
>
> Here is a web-site using the phrase:
>
> http://web.me.com/kirkbergey/Crevices_and_Caves/Bruce.html
>
>
> I guess the idea behind this phrase is that the cave stays horizontal
> as you enter the
> entrance, and that when hiking to the cave you never descend into a
> ravine or canyon.
>
> Maybe the general public and the media have a Hollywood image of a cave
> ingrained in their thought process, where the cave is a large entrance
> that you easily
> walk into and there is a large room with flat floors. So that when
> they see a cave
> that goes downward into the earth, they refer to it as an "underground cave."
>
> The cave below might be an example of what the general public means when they
> use this phrase:
>
> http://www.castlehill.net.nz/castlehill/cavestream/cavestream.htm
>
> ( I think I could do that cave ! )
>
> I can't think of a good example of anything that I would call an above
> ground cave.
> "Enchanted Rock Cave" doesn't seem to qualify. Rock shelters don't seem to
> qualify, either.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
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>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There's a great above-ground cave at a convenience store/gas
station in south Texas that we have stopped at on trips to
Mexico. It's called Caverna de la Cerveza. It's full of strange,
short stalagmites filled with liquid. I have a photo, but I can't
post it here.
Mark Minton
At 08:59 AM 7/10/2010, John Brooks wrote:
The grotto bar atop the caravan of dreams in fort worth is an above
ground cave....and maybe the "highest" above ground cave in the
known universe.
Does anyone keep a list of highest known above ground caves?
Would we have to survey this cave to get it on the list.
These are all questions that we should know the answers!
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 10, 2010, at 1:25 AM, David <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:
[ I can't find anything to write about this week ]
Here is a good example of an above ground cave:
http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/9239967.jpg
At least, according to the photographer.
Note that underground is one word, but "above ground" is 2 words. I
presume there
is some English grammar rule that causes that.
However, it is also written "above-ground cave" on at least one
cave-diving web-site,
as referring to a submerged cave that was once above the water table.
Here is a web-site using the phrase:
http://web.me.com/kirkbergey/Crevices_and_Caves/Bruce.html
I guess the idea behind this phrase is that the cave stays horizontal
as you enter the
entrance, and that when hiking to the cave you never descend into a
ravine or canyon.
Maybe the general public and the media have a Hollywood image of a cave
ingrained in their thought process, where the cave is a large entrance
that you easily
walk into and there is a large room with flat floors. So that when
they see a cave
that goes downward into the earth, they refer to it as an "underground cave."
The cave below might be an example of what the general public means when they
use this phrase:
http://www.castlehill.net.nz/castlehill/cavestream/cavestream.htm
( I think I could do that cave ! )
I can't think of a good example of anything that I would call an above
ground cave.
"Enchanted Rock Cave" doesn't seem to qualify. Rock shelters don't seem to
qualify, either.
Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
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--- Begin Message ---
There's an impressive video of a wet-weather trip to Sumidero de El
Popoca, Veracruz, a 70-meter pit, at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MCszMAN6ng
. (It is also known variously as Sótano de El Popoca, Resumidero del
Popoca, etc.) -- Mixon
----------------------------------------
You can live down anything but a good reputation.
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You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Friends
I finish my treatment of Herceptin and I have to return to Mexico and renew
my visa and part of my life.
So I will have two Party's for say Bye and Welcome.
*For people in Austin and around:*
*24 July in Gill's house (Saturday)*
*300 W Mockingbird.*
*Bring the food to share, and drink if you want.*
*Regular stuff.*
*We start at 6:30 pm and finish ....????*
*More information with Gill at phone 410 303 1177*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*25 July in Linda and Allan's House (Sunday)*
*For the people in San Antonio and around.*
*4019 Ramsgate, 78230 San Antonio, Texas. *
*We start at 4 pm to whenever.
BBQ, dinner, bring side or meat if you do not like beef.
Bring chairs.*
*for more information with Linda: 210- 699-1388*
*
I would like to see you... if you want to come at both is ok, if not, you
can choose! *
*come and enjoy the time with me!*
*
*
*Love *
*Moni Ponce *
LCC Monica Grissel Ponce Gonzalez
San Antonio, Texas
espeleocoahu...@gmail.com
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Attention all interested parties:
The 2nd Tuesday of the Month is upon us, and that means...
PBSS Meeting!
7:00 pm, Murray's Delicatessen at 3211 West Wadley in Midland
On the agenda: Whatever caving we may be planning, and some information from
NSS that may prompt discussion.
See you all there!
For further information about the meeting or about PBSS in general contact
Jacqui Thomas jlrbi...@sonoratx.net or Bill Bentley ca...@caver.net
Regarding The Hole News (especially trip reports): Kel Thomas
ktho...@sonoratx.net
PBSS web page:
http://www.caver.net/pbss/pbss.html
The Permian Basin Speleological Society was founded in October 1983 and was
chartered as the 300th grotto of the National Speleological Society on
January 18, 1984. The Permian Basin Speleological Society is an affiliated
Grotto or Caving club with the Texas Speleological Association and the
Southwestern Region of the National Speleological Society and supports the
cave conservation ethics of the National Speleological Society.
National Speleological Society web page:
http://www.caves.org/
Texas Speleological Association web page:
http://www.cavetexas.org
Southwestern Region of the NSS web page:
http://www.caves.org/region/swr/
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--- Begin Message ---
The table below shows plane ticket prices out
of Houston to Burlington. ( I presume the prices
are similar from other major airports out of Texas. )
http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/apps/booking/flight/searchResultDates.aspx
The most practical flight leaving on Friday and coming back on
Saturday is $ 418,
( plus fees ).
[ If you haven't registered yet, and still hope to go, then you can
register on-line
for $ 150. ]
If you don't rent a car and can find a ride from and to the airport
and rides during the convention,
and you don't stay in hotels and you don't eat out much, and you don't buy any
souvenirs or caving gear or books, etc, then the total trip cost can
be had for under
$ 600.
Otherwise, if you rent a car and get a hotel for 7 nights and buy
stuff and eat out a lot,
you are looking at total trip cost of $ 1,200 to $ 1,400. ( I
definitely won't be doing any
of that ).
The other option is to make the long drive up there and back with some
cavers. While
that may be less than $ 418, the flight is a little over 6 hours,
while the drive is something
like 33 hours non-stop presuming you don't have a flat tire, or get lost, etc.
If you are going to rent a car for the week, then you can save $ 100
by flying to an airport
like Manchester, New Hampshire.
http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/apps/booking/flight/searchResultDates.aspx
On a personal note,
I doubt I can go to the convention this year, but I am leaning towards
the cheapest
flight to Manchester ( $ 278 ) and then finding a ride to and from the
convention from there.
My biggest issue is that because I am self-employed, I don't make any
money while I am
gone and I don't make my customers happy. However, I have very little work
at the moment, and realistically, nobody would miss me if I were gone
for a week. The other
issue is that it can sometimes be hard to have fun on vacation when
you don't have money
to spend on things. The practical side of me ( if there is such a
thing ) says to stay home,
while the other side of me says to load up my back-pack and just get there.
If I do make it, I look forward to seeing some of you there.
David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County
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--- Begin Message ---
Check out AMTRAK. The Essex Junction station is only a few blocks from
the campground.
--Ediger
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 2:24 PM, David <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The table below shows plane ticket prices out
> of Houston to Burlington. ( I presume the prices
> are similar from other major airports out of Texas. )
>
>
> http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/apps/booking/flight/searchResultDates.aspx
>
> The most practical flight leaving on Friday and coming back on
> Saturday is $ 418,
> ( plus fees ).
>
> [ If you haven't registered yet, and still hope to go, then you can
> register on-line
> for $ 150. ]
>
> If you don't rent a car and can find a ride from and to the airport
> and rides during the convention,
> and you don't stay in hotels and you don't eat out much, and you don't buy any
> souvenirs or caving gear or books, etc, then the total trip cost can
> be had for under
> $ 600.
>
> Otherwise, if you rent a car and get a hotel for 7 nights and buy
> stuff and eat out a lot,
> you are looking at total trip cost of $ 1,200 to $ 1,400. ( I
> definitely won't be doing any
> of that ).
>
> The other option is to make the long drive up there and back with some
> cavers. While
> that may be less than $ 418, the flight is a little over 6 hours,
> while the drive is something
> like 33 hours non-stop presuming you don't have a flat tire, or get lost, etc.
>
> If you are going to rent a car for the week, then you can save $ 100
> by flying to an airport
> like Manchester, New Hampshire.
>
> http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/apps/booking/flight/searchResultDates.aspx
>
>
> On a personal note,
>
> I doubt I can go to the convention this year, but I am leaning towards
> the cheapest
> flight to Manchester ( $ 278 ) and then finding a ride to and from the
> convention from there.
> My biggest issue is that because I am self-employed, I don't make any
> money while I am
> gone and I don't make my customers happy. However, I have very little work
> at the moment, and realistically, nobody would miss me if I were gone
> for a week. The other
> issue is that it can sometimes be hard to have fun on vacation when
> you don't have money
> to spend on things. The practical side of me ( if there is such a
> thing ) says to stay home,
> while the other side of me says to load up my back-pack and just get there.
>
> If I do make it, I look forward to seeing some of you there.
>
> David Locklear
> caver in Fort Bend County
>
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>
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--- Begin Message ---
Southwest has a deal if you fly to Manchester which is 3 hours from the
convention.
If you leave on Tuesday before the convention and stay 14 days, it is only
$ 258 round trip. You have to change planes twice.
I am only saying that that is the cheapest flight I could find.
What would you rather do: spend 14 days of summertime fun in Vermont, or
14 days in a Houston heat-wave sitting in traffic inhaling toxic
exhaust fumes ?
Tough choice!
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