texascavers Digest 14 Jul 2010 13:48:55 -0000 Issue 1100
Topics (messages 15370 through 15379):
missing items from the Strickland Pond Party
15370 by: Diana Tomchick
Re: Medina River Nature Preserve Officer JOB OPENING
15371 by: Geary Schindel
Re: USFS Closes Caves in CO for 12 Months (fwd)
15372 by: Gill Edigar
Caves on TV
15373 by: Louise Power
Re: [Colorado Cave Survey] USFS Region 2 Cave Closures
15374 by: Lee H. Skinner
Pond Party lost & found
15375 by: pstrickland1.austin.rr.com
Re: Cave Lighting Install
15376 by: Charles Goldsmith
TSS work session
15377 by: Ron Ralph
Time Magazine interview with Jim Tabor on Blind Descent :
15378 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com
Karst film and help request
15379 by: A. Wertheim
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I am missing two items from last weekend's pond party (if you missed
it, you missed a great one!).
1) Toyota truck key attached to a utility biner clip; the clip color
is best described as "orange flowers on a black background" and it was
attached to the back of a Texas flag folding chair.
Apparently somebody mistakenly left with my folding chair and left
their Texas flag chair in the area beyond the water slide (they had to
remove my towel from my chair in order to take it--thanks for leaving
the towel behind). I picked up the other person's chair, but I'd
really like my truck key returned.
2) Rubbermaid container of chipotle-cheddar macaroni salad.
I feel flattered that this is the first time I have ever had someone
walk away with the covered dish that I brought to a potluck. I
wouldn't mind getting the container returned to me (but you can keep
the salad). If anyone would like the recipe for this salad, I'll
gladly send it to you.
If you find one or both of these items (especially the truck key), you
can mail them back to me, no questions asked, at
Diana Tomchick
500 Kingston Dr.
Irving, TX 75061
Thanks,
Diana
P.S. And thanks so much to the Strickland family for all their hard
work and hospitality!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: [email protected]
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FYI,
Geary
From: Gail Gallegos [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 10:41 AM
Subject: Medina River Nature Preserve Officer JOB OPENING
Importance: High
My previous position of Nature Preserve Officer at the wonderful Medina River
Natural Area is currently open and accepting applications.
Please pass this job opening on to anyone who may be interested and qualified.
Thank You!!
https://ww4.sanantonio.gov/jobs/jobvacs/jobDescription.aspx?objid=30023309
CITY OF SAN ANTONIO JOB ANNOUNCEMENT
111 Plaza de Armas San Antonio, Texas 78205 Phone No. (210)207-8108
Job Number / Title:
0454-NATURE PRESERVE OFFICER
Closing Date:
07/23/2010
Salary:
$34,996.10 - $52,494.16 / Annually
Date Posted:
07/09/2010
FLSA Status:
Exempt
Department:
Parks & Recreation
Grant Funded:
No
Job Summary
Under direction, is responsible for performing professional level work for the
management of the natural park areas, to include supervision of staff,
developing educational and informational programs, and managing all fiscal
programs of the facility. Exercises direct supervision over assigned staff.
Essential Job Functions
* Plans and organizes educational and informational programs;
* Develops and administers long-range program and facility planning and
develops program goals and objectives;
* Acts as liaison between the City and public support groups;
* Prepares reports and written correspondence;
* Promotes the availability and utility of the park through public contacts,
media promotion, or direct solicitation of events;
* Analyzes park operations and functions and recommends improvements;
* Oversees the maintenance of facilities, trails, and property within Park
boundaries;
* Assists in developing policies and procedures necessary to manage the
facility;
* Supervises, trains and evaluates assigned staff;
* Performs related duties and fulfills responsibilities as required.
Job/Driving Requirements
* Bachelor's Degree in Biology, Natural Sciences or Environmental Sciences or
related degree;
* Three (3) years of experience in natural science, or environmental science,
to include one (1) year of supervisory experience;
* This position requires a valid Class "C" Texas Drivers' License or obtain a
valid Class "C" Texas Driver's License with in thirty (30) days after becoming
a resident of the State of Texas;
* Use of your own personal vehicle may at times be required and proof of
liability insurance will be required;
* Any applicant selected for this position must have a background check
completed with results satisfactory to the City of San Antonio and successfully
complete the City of San Antonio's two-phased Cash-Handling Certification
Training;
* ANY APPLICANT SELECTED FOR EMPLOYMENT WITH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO MUST
RECEIVE SATISFACTORY RESULTS FROM PRE-EMPLOYMENT DRUG TESTING, REFERENCES,
BACKGROUND CHECKS AND CREDENTIAL VERIFICATION. ADDITIONALLY, EMPLOYEES IN
SENSITIVE OR HIGH RISK POSITIONS ARE SUBJECT TO INTERVAL CRIMINAL BACKGROUND
CHECKS AND IN ACCORDANCE WITH TITLE 49 CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATINOS, EMPLOYEES
IN CDL POSITIONS ARE SUJBECT TO RANDOM DRUG TESTING.
Preferred Qualifications
* Degreed and experience in Botany, Biology, Ecology, Forestry or other
related field.
Physical Requirements
* Physical requirements include occasional lifting/carrying of 25 pounds.
Work Location
* Medina River Natural Area
Work Hours
* 7:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m., Monday - Friday, Occasional Weekends and Holidays;
* At the Dept.'s Discretion, the Work Location and Work Days/Hours May Be
Subject to Change;
* This position can be closed at any time.
Contact Rita Aguilar (207-8108) for further information.
E. Gail Gallegos
Nature Preserve Officer
Natural Areas
Parks & Recreation
210.207.3284 Cell 210.912.7509
www.sanaturalareas.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bruce Bannerman <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 10:38 AM
Subject: FWD: USFS Closes Caves in CO for 12 Months (fwd)
To: [email protected]
FYI
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: JiM3 <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 11:38 AM
Subject: [NSSwest] Fw: [Colorado Grotto] USFS Closes Caves in CO for 12
Months
To: NSSwest <[email protected]>, [email protected],
sandiegogrotto <[email protected]>
Cc: Joel Despain <[email protected]>
Fellow cavers,
Carl and I have received word that US Forest Service Region 2 plans to
announce early next week, a Special Order for closing all caves
region-wide in response to White Nose Syndrome. Region 2 includes all
Forest and Grasslands within Colorado, Kansas, Nebraska, most of Wyoming
and most of South Dakota. This order will be in effect for 12 months. We
have been told that re-opening any of the affected caves by subsequent
Special Order or permit is extremely unlikely in the next 12 months. One
place the announcement will be posted is the Region 2 website:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/
The plan for the closures will consist of two steps. First, education of
the cave-visiting public that a closure is in effect. Second, some trails
which are primarily used to access caves will be closed.
There are a number of issues to discuss and decisions for the CCS to make
in the coming days and weeks. Among these, the USFS is requesting help in
placing signs at cave entrances to notify the public of the closure. The
USFS also inquired whether the CCS would like to be identified or have a
logo placed on the signs. The CCS will also need to decide what to do
about access at Fly and Marble Caves. Carl Bern has spoken with the
landowner Larry Blackwell and Larry will follow the CCS decision on this
issue. We will be keeping the organized caving community informed,
notifying CCS reps of upcoming votes, and we may have a special meeting of
the CCS in the near future.
At this time caves on BLM land remain open. However, the BLM has indicated
that they want their response to be in coordination with the USFS and so a
similar closure on BLM lands may be expected. Decision-making by the BLM
had been occurring at the state level, but the Washington Office is now
stepping in.
The decision to close caves anywhere is always difficult and
controversial. It should be noted though that land managing agencies,
caver-run cave conservancies, and private cave owners across the eastern
U.S. and into the west have come to similar conclusions regarding this
course of action for dealing with WNS. As fellow cavers who share your
passion, we know that cave closures are a bitter pill, particularly in the
middle of summer. However, let us remember that over one million bats are
estimated to have died from WNS and certain species face extinction.
Cavers rightfully consider themselves to be stewards of the underground
world. Across the west, our claim to that identity will be measured to
some extent by our support for these closures. While the USFS Region 2
decision was made without involvement from Carl or myself, we respect its
necessity and support the closure. We hope that the caving community as a
whole will also respect and support the closure. As this situation
continues to evolve, the Colorado Cave Survey will continue, as always, to
advocate for both cave conservation and cave ACCESS.
Yours in caving,
Dave Lambert
Chairman
Colorado Cave Survey
Carl Bern
Vice-Chairman
Colorado Cave Survey
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Last nite on Best Home Videos, one of the clips showed some guy standing just
inside the entrance of a cave with ice formations (was hard to tell if it was
an ice cave). A stalactite which looked about 4-5 feet long and maybe 6-10
inches in diameter fell from the ceiling just missing the guy in the cave. This
may have been a repeat episode, so you may have seen it.
Also, a local bank is running an ad about one of their employees who takes
people on caving trips. It shows the caver and about half a dozen or so people
in the party. Don't know who it is, but will try to find out who and what cave.
Louise
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [Colorado Cave Survey] USFS Region 2 Cave Closures
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:26:36 -0600 (MDT)
From: DONALD G. DAVIS <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]
Dear Colleagues:
In a Friday afternoon discussion with Phil Nyland, the White River National
Forest Wildlife Biologist at the Aspen District Office, he reported that the
report of private concessionaires continuing to be allowed to visit caves
was incorrect. He said that the USFS was contacting the concessionaires and
alerting them of the pending closure. Phil also reported that the WRNF was
insistent that the Colorado Cave Survey be notified prior to the official
release of the closure order since the Forest and the Survey have been
working partners for more than 40 years. Though he said there won't be much
of a "silver lining" to the closure order, he did hope that the Forest and
cavers can continue working together and not sever their relationship.
Although Phil and the District 2 Public Affairs person both independently
confirmed the announcement would be forthcoming today, a reporter from
Channel 9 KUSA alerted me this afternoon the District office in Golden
reported to them that the closure order was being reconsidered. This
suggests there may be a tiny window of hope.
Perhaps forests like the WRNF are alerting the District Forester that such a
closure order will be violated and that another course of action might be
more prudent and supported by the people of the states. We can always hope!
Rick Rhinehart
I found USFS Public Information Specialist Janelle Smith's e-mail
address on the Web ([email protected]), and rather than calling her,
sent her the following modified and corrected version of my previous
message from this list (with expanded explanation and with reference to
private concessionnaires removed), to get it into written record.
Lee Skinner--I'm not a member of any Texas or Arizona lists, but
you have my permission to pass on the present message to those (and NM).
--Donald
----------------
From dgdavis Mon Jul 12 17:02:53 2010
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Colorado Cave Survey] USFS Region 2 Cave Closures
Dave Lambert and Carl Bern wrote on July 9 on the Colorado Cave
Survey Google Group:
Fellow cavers,
Carl and I have received word that US Forest Service Region 2 plans to
announce early next week, a Special Order for closing all caves region-wide
in response to White Nose Syndrome. Region 2 includes all Forest and
Grasslands within Colorado, Kansas, Nebraska, most of Wyoming and most of
South Dakota. This order will be in effect for 12 months. We have been told
that re-opening any of the affected caves by subsequent Special Order or
permit is extremely unlikely in the next 12 months. [DETAILS CLIPPED]
Dave Lambert
Chairman
Colorado Cave Survey
Carl Bern
Vice-Chairman
Colorado Cave Survey
In 53 years of caving, this blanket closure of public caves because
of White Nose Syndrome is clearly the worst crisis I've seen. It is
apparently being imposed without justifying logic and does not merit our
support. I can cite a disturbingly instructive historical precedent: the
enactment of the prohibition of selling alcoholic liquor in the early 20th
century. Both measures were well-intentioned and addressed real problems,
but were ill-considered. Like Prohibition, a general cave closure is very
unpopular and so full of loopholes that it cannot accomplish the desired
goal, but will criminalize those who reject it. In the present case, one
bad result will be that the managing agency will receive less timely
information about the possible appearance of WNS in USFS caves, because
cavers who abide by the closure will not see sick bats in the first place,
while those who defy it will not risk punishment by reporting them (except
perhaps anonymously).
In reality, this arbitrary cave closure is apt to be even less
effective than Prohibition was. Prohibition only had to deal with human
actions. While the first appearance of WNS at Knox Caverns, NY is
strongly suggestive of human introduction, its subsequent spread is, with
little doubt, overwhelmingly via bat-to-bat transmission, so that
restricting human cave visits will not much slow the spread. Moreover,
unless the closure also covers abandoned mines, it cannot possibly be
effective, since in many areas mines are the primary cave-bat habitat.
There will be other major negative repercussions. If instituted,
the closure will effectively prevent caving at next year's National
Speleological Society Convention at Glenwood Springs. This can be
expected to reduce attendance considerably. Even if it is revoked before
then, the longer it remains in effect, the more people will decide not to
attend on that basis. And without a public caving resource where the vast
majority of caves are on public land, will any western state's cavers
volunteer to host an NSS Convention again? I doubt it.
Looking farther, such a closure could literally mean the death of
organized caving in the western U.S., where most caves are on public land,
and weaken it nationally. What motive is there for people to belong to
caving groups when few if any caves are left for them to visit? This in
turn will leave caving increasingly to uninformed spelunkers with no
concept of cave ethical issues, either about bats or otherwise. And the
progress of cave-related science, which had been flowering in recent
years, will be severely impacted by loss of access and by reduction of
information flow about caves as less material is published.
Finally, the closure sets a bad example that may be imitated by
other USFS regions and other agencies. If not aborted, this closure will,
in my opinion, destroy the relationship of decades of mutual trust and
cooperation between the caving community and governmental agencies (e.g.,
in the management of Groaning Cave since the 1970s, protection of the
Elephant Mountain caves, and provision of information about the effect of
timber sales on nearby caves). Just the preliminary announcement has
already caused widespread caver consternation not only in USFS Region 2,
but in New Mexico and no doubt other nearby states outside Region 2.
--Donald Davis
Fellow and Honorary Member, National Speleological Society
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--- Begin Message ---
Amoung the Numerous items found after the Pond Party were a pair of "Wear-ever"
folding chairs with backpack straps and a Mamouth Cave T-shirt. Pete
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll be onsite Jul 31st and Aug 1st working on the lights. Anyone that
wants to join in and help, please sign up on the site and/or coordinate with
me.
Charles
On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Scott Kyle <[email protected]>wrote:
> We've got the rest of the Summer open to all who'd like to come and help
> clean, install lighting and do a little exploring as well. It's really
> starting to look good.
>
> Go to: http://www.doodle.com/bah4t9d7r2657sw2 and sign up for mornings
> and/or afternoons. Ideally two or more folks will be there at the same time
> - and that can be designed through the scheduling tool linked above.
>
> Scott Kyle (804)402-8985
> Cascade Caverns
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cavers,
There is a scheduled second Wednesday work session of the Texas
Speleological Survey July 14th at the JJ Pickle Research Center on Burnet
Road north of highway 183. We will be working on the secret files and
setting up the permanent fire cabinet for all proprietary data. We will
continue to update electronic files and maybe scan and clean a few regular
sized maps. Come by and see if you would like to organize one of our cave
rich counties. If you attend, you will also be able to work on your own
projects as well.
Both publication sales and the library will be open. The door will be open
at 5:00 p.m. and stay open till we adjourn. The TSS office phone is 475-8802
if you get lost or stopped by the guard. Remember it is best to arrive
before 6:00 pm, or the gate guards might not let you in! If you have
questions or problems, please contact me at <mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected] or the office manager, Jim Kennedy. Please go to
<http://www.utexas.edu/tmm/sponsored_sites/tss/tsscalendar.htm>
http://www.utexas.edu/tmm/sponsored_sites/tss/tsscalendar.htm for additional
information.
Ron Ralph
Cell: 797-3817
Map to the place is at: http://www.utexas.edu/maps/prc/ On PRC map 2 ("NW
Area"), 18-A is the little building just above the "ra" in "Granberry". Park
to the south in the PETEX lot across the street (Read Granberry Trail) from
building 18-A
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A Journey into the World's Deepest, Darkest Caves
By _Charlie Duerr_ (http://www.time.com/time/letters/email_letter.html)
Tuesday, Jul. 13, 2010
If willingly plunging thousands of feet below the earth's surface to risk
disease, treacherous terrain and deadly waters doesn't sound like your idea
of a good time, then supercave exploration may not be your calling. Yet
that's exactly what a unique group of under-the-radar scientists and
explorers has been doing for years. In his thrilling new book Blind Descent,
James
Tabor examines these fearless pioneers and documents the quest for the
deepest place on earth. Tabor spoke to TIME about the dangers of caving and
man's fascination with the unknown. _(See mankind's greatest explorations and
adventures.)_
(http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/0,28757,1932261,00.html)
On nearly every page in this book, you write about all the things that can
go wrong: disease, drowning, eternal darkness. Why do people do this?
At the very deepest level, there are some people that, when they look at a
high mountain or a deep ocean or a bizarre cave, something really deep,
deep, deep in them says, "I've got to go there." It's almost an irresistible
impulse. Bill Stone, one of the great explorers profiled in the book, has
said that he does this because he has to, implying a lack of volition. These
people are also very serious scientists, and there is good science coming
out of these big caves. But I think at the deepest level, it's almost
ineffable — something very difficult to express but also difficult to resist.
How does cave exploration compare with mountain climbing in terms of
danger and difficulty?
Supercave exploration has been likened to doing Mount Everest in reverse.
There are so many different varieties of danger and complications in caves.
You can drown, you can be hit with poison gases, you can be buried under
rockfall. The scuba-diving aspect of cave exploration adds a whole other
dimension of danger that even the great Himalayan mountaineers don't have to
encounter. Mountaineers are probably going to hate me for saying this, but
all things considered, I think there are more strange ways to die and get
hurt in these supercaves. _(See "Sir Edmund Hillary: First Ascent of Mount
Everest.")_ (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1702756,00.html)
Bill Stone is portrayed as an extremely polarizing figure, and he was
known not to take to writers very well. What was your experience like with him?
In the beginning, Bill was very wary and standoffish. It took nine or 10
months before I was able to get the first face-to-face meeting with Bill.
Once he learned that I had some caving experience of my own, I think that
helped gain his confidence, and as the relationship evolved and I began to ask
questions and actually ask him to review parts of the manuscript, he
became more comfortable with the fact that this was not really a hatchet job.
I
just can't say enough good things about how helpful he was. _(Comment on
this story.)_
(http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2003320,00.html#comments)
Krubera, in the Republic of Georgia, has been certified as the world's
biggest cave. Just how big is it?
7,188 ft. is the final depth, so seven Empire State buildings. It is nine
miles of travel from the entrance of the cave down to the terminus. It
would typically take five to seven days for the explorers just to get down.
They would stay down there for a week or 10 days, as long as they could stand
it, and then it would take them a week to get out. So some of them were
underground for a month.
What has cave exploration added to scientific knowledge?
Out of some very deep caves are coming life-forms called extremophiles. We
are beginning to create new families of antibiotics from these things,
which in turn are proving effective against multiply drug-resistant bacteria.
Things like strep A, some forms of pneumococcus. These are things that all
of our drugs have stopped working against, and these new antibiotics could
quite possibly stave those things off. NASA is studying these teams that
are underground under these incredible stresses for weeks and weeks at a time
because they replicate, better than any simulation can, the experience
that Mars crews are going to have on long-haul spaceflights.
What are the most impressive aspects of caving?
The first thing that hits you is the darkness. It has a palpable feel
because you know if you lose your light, the darkness is probably the thing
that is going to kill you. The other thing that continues to surprise me is
that big caves are characterized not so much by tight squeezes and
constrictions but by vast open spaces underground. I was in a cave in
Tennessee where
there was a chamber literally as big as Grand Central [Terminal]'s main
concourse. Then, of course, there is the water. The hazards and the bizarre
qualities of dives in caves is just astonishing.
Aside from Krubera, what are some of the world's biggest caves?
I coined the term supercave because, having become familiar with
mountains, I knew that there was a name for this very special category of
mountains
that are more than 8,000 m high. There are only 14 of them, and they are
called 8,000-m peaks. There was no similar term that designated this
particular group [of caves], so I started calling them supercaves. There are
only
about a half dozen of them because you have to have very specific geological
conditions for them to form. There are some in southern Mexico, the
Republic of Georgia, Turkey, China, and there are some in Central Europe in
the
French and Italian Alps.
So there are no supercaves in the U.S.?
None in the U.S. We do have the longest cave known on earth, which is
Mammoth Cave. It has hundreds of miles of passages, but you can't really call
it a true supercave because you don't get miles deep. But we do have the
longest, we can say
that._http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2003320,00.html_
(http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2003320,00.html)
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--- Begin Message ---
I've been contacted by an Austin filmmaker working on a project related to the
San Marcos Springs and Purgatory watershed. She is looking for a hydrologist
with experience in these features to interview in her film. Some of her
interest appears related to Joe Furman and Andy Glusenkamps work.
If anyone is interested please contact me off-line.
Regards,
Arron [email protected]
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
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