texascavers Digest 28 Jul 2010 15:44:34 -0000 Issue 1114
Topics (messages 15576 through 15593):
Re: free-tailed bat$
15576 by: Andy Gluesenkamp
Re: free-tailed bats
15577 by: Nico Escamilla
15578 by: Rod Goke
Re: Another LeBlanc article on caving : Kickapoo Cavern SP :
15579 by: Chris Vreeland
No Swim Sundays
15580 by: Ernest Garza
Re: Take a moment and help out a Texas caver...
15581 by: Allan Cobb
15582 by: Louise Power
Off Topic-"The Story of the Weeping Camel"
15583 by: Orion Knox
15584 by: Fritz Holt
Thank you very much!
15585 by: Espeleo Coahuila
NSS Convention - rides NE
15586 by: David
Mars related
15587 by: David
Region 3 USFS cave closures are official :
15588 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com
15589 by: Jim Kennedy
15591 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com
NSS Convention - personal
15590 by: David
15592 by: Jim Kennedy
Re: Exploring Caves in Mexico
15593 by: Mixon Bill
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--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like some sort of money-making scheme to me. Those damned taxonomists
are bleeding us dry.
Andy
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
[email protected]
--- On Mon, 7/26/10, Rod Goke <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Rod Goke <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: free-tailed bats
To: "TexasCavers" <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Monday, July 26, 2010, 7:46 PM
Let's see, subspecies mexicana is part of the species brasiliensis...
Sure, that makes perfect sense, ... as long as Mexico is part of Brazil. Right?
;-)
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Kennedy <[email protected]>
>Sent: Jul 26, 2010 4:03 PM
>To: Fritz Holt <[email protected]>
>Cc: Nico Escamilla <[email protected]>, [email protected],
>[email protected]
>Subject: [Texascavers] Re: free-tailed bats
>
>
>Our common free-tailed bat is _Tadarida brasiliensis_, subspecies
>_mexicana_. So it is perfectly acceptable to use either the species
>or subspecies epithet as a common name.
>
>Jim (currently in Elizabethtown, KY)
>
>
>On Jul 26, 2010, at 2:40 PM, "Fritz Holt"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I have seen them referred to as Brazilian free-tailed bats in other
>> written material and wondered if they were mistaken and should have
>> said Mexican or are there two distinct varieties of free-tailed
>> bats? What’s the answer, Jim?
>>
>> Fritz
>>
>> From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:[email protected]]
>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 12:26 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Cc: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Another LeBlanc article on caving :
>> Kickapoo Cavern SP :
>>
>> Seems like bats no longer want to be Mexican and they turned
>> Brasilian, LOL
>> must be all the violence going on :-P
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 10:08 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Into the dark: Spelunk in the raw abyss of Kickapoo Cavern
>>
>> By Pamela LeBlanc
>> AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
>>
>> Updated: 7:24 p.m. Sunday, July 25, 2010
>>
>> Published: 5:07 p.m. Sunday, July 25, 2010
>>
>>
>> Besides the wild cave tours, which are offered by reservation only
>> on Saturdays, the park is known for its bat population. From April
>> through September, a colony of more than half a million Brazilian
>> free-tailed bats swoops out of Stuart Bat Cave, which is slightly
>> smaller than Kickapoo Cavern, on a nightly mission to feast on
>> insects.
>>
>> http://www.austin360.com/recreation/into-the-dark-822622.html
>>
>>
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--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, just like Texas is part of Mexico
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Rod Goke <[email protected]> wrote:
> Let's see, subspecies mexicana is part of the species brasiliensis...
> Sure, that makes perfect sense, ... as long as Mexico is part of Brazil.
> Right?
>
> ;-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Jim Kennedy <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Jul 26, 2010 4:03 PM
> >To: Fritz Holt <[email protected]>
> >Cc: Nico Escamilla <[email protected]>, [email protected],
> [email protected]
> >Subject: [Texascavers] Re: free-tailed bats
> >
> >
> >Our common free-tailed bat is _Tadarida brasiliensis_, subspecies
> >_mexicana_. So it is perfectly acceptable to use either the species
> >or subspecies epithet as a common name.
> >
> >Jim (currently in Elizabethtown, KY)
> >
> >
> >On Jul 26, 2010, at 2:40 PM, "Fritz Holt"
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> I have seen them referred to as Brazilian free-tailed bats in other
> >> written material and wondered if they were mistaken and should have
> >> said Mexican or are there two distinct varieties of free-tailed
> >> bats? What’s the answer, Jim?
> >>
> >> Fritz
> >>
> >> From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:[email protected]]
> >> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 12:26 PM
> >> To: [email protected]
> >> Cc: [email protected]
> >> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Another LeBlanc article on caving :
> >> Kickapoo Cavern SP :
> >>
> >> Seems like bats no longer want to be Mexican and they turned
> >> Brasilian, LOL
> >> must be all the violence going on :-P
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 10:08 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Into the dark: Spelunk in the raw abyss of Kickapoo Cavern
> >>
> >> By Pamela LeBlanc
> >> AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
> >>
> >> Updated: 7:24 p.m. Sunday, July 25, 2010
> >>
> >> Published: 5:07 p.m. Sunday, July 25, 2010
> >>
> >>
> >> Besides the wild cave tours, which are offered by reservation only
> >> on Saturdays, the park is known for its bat population. From April
> >> through September, a colony of more than half a million Brazilian
> >> free-tailed bats swoops out of Stuart Bat Cave, which is slightly
> >> smaller than Kickapoo Cavern, on a nightly mission to feast on
> >> insects.
> >>
> >> http://www.austin360.com/recreation/into-the-dark-822622.html
> >>
> >>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The bats must think so, because we sure see a lot of Mexican free-tailed bats
in Texas. Or are those Brazilian free-tailed bats, who think that Texas is part
of Brazil?
-----Original Message-----
>From: Nico Escamilla <[email protected]>
>Sent: Jul 26, 2010 8:48 PM
>To: Rod Goke <[email protected]>
>Cc: TexasCavers <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: free-tailed bats
>
>Yeah, just like Texas is part of Mexico
>
>On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Rod Goke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Let's see, subspecies mexicana is part of the species brasiliensis...
>> Sure, that makes perfect sense, ... as long as Mexico is part of Brazil.
>> Right?
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: Jim Kennedy <[email protected]>
>> >Sent: Jul 26, 2010 4:03 PM
>> >To: Fritz Holt <[email protected]>
>> >Cc: Nico Escamilla <[email protected]>, [email protected],
>> [email protected]
>> >Subject: [Texascavers] Re: free-tailed bats
>> >
>> >
>> >Our common free-tailed bat is _Tadarida brasiliensis_, subspecies
>> >_mexicana_. So it is perfectly acceptable to use either the species
>> >or subspecies epithet as a common name.
>> >
>> >Jim (currently in Elizabethtown, KY)
>> >
>> >
>> >On Jul 26, 2010, at 2:40 PM, "Fritz Holt"
>> ><[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I have seen them referred to as Brazilian free-tailed bats in other
>> >> written material and wondered if they were mistaken and should have
>> >> said Mexican or are there two distinct varieties of free-tailed
>> >> bats? What’s the answer, Jim?
>> >>
>> >> Fritz
>> >>
>> >> From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:[email protected]]
>> >> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 12:26 PM
>> >> To: [email protected]
>> >> Cc: [email protected]
>> >> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Another LeBlanc article on caving :
>> >> Kickapoo Cavern SP :
>> >>
>> >> Seems like bats no longer want to be Mexican and they turned
>> >> Brasilian, LOL
>> >> must be all the violence going on :-P
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 10:08 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> Into the dark: Spelunk in the raw abyss of Kickapoo Cavern
>> >>
>> >> By Pamela LeBlanc
>> >> AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
>> >>
>> >> Updated: 7:24 p.m. Sunday, July 25, 2010
>> >>
>> >> Published: 5:07 p.m. Sunday, July 25, 2010
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Besides the wild cave tours, which are offered by reservation only
>> >> on Saturdays, the park is known for its bat population. From April
>> >> through September, a colony of more than half a million Brazilian
>> >> free-tailed bats swoops out of Stuart Bat Cave, which is slightly
>> >> smaller than Kickapoo Cavern, on a nightly mission to feast on
>> >> insects.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.austin360.com/recreation/into-the-dark-822622.html
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>>
>>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think the confusion stems from the fact that there's simply a
million brazillion of the dang things.
On Jul 26, 2010, at 12:26 PM, Nico Escamilla wrote:
Seems like bats no longer want to be Mexican and they turned
Brasilian, LOL
must be all the violence going on :-P
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 10:08 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Into the dark: Spelunk in the raw abyss of Kickapoo Cavern
By Pamela LeBlanc
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Updated: 7:24 p.m. Sunday, July 25, 2010
Published: 5:07 p.m. Sunday, July 25, 2010
Besides the wild cave tours, which are offered by reservation only
on Saturdays, the park is known for its bat population. From April
through September, a colony of more than half a million Brazilian
free-tailed bats swoops out of Stuart Bat Cave, which is slightly
smaller than Kickapoo Cavern, on a nightly mission to feast on
insects.
http://www.austin360.com/recreation/into-the-dark-822622.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For those of you who swam Sundays at Pete's, you will probably miss
them. For those of you who didn't swim, you have missed a good thing.
Now that they have ended, why not join us in the next best thing to do:
the Sunday Kiwi Sink digs. We are almost half way to China, help us
break on through! This next Sunday, late morn till we tire out. Located
across Billie Brooks Ln. in Rolling Oaks near Driftwood. Call me for
info at 512-847-0183.
--Ernie G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roy Wessel is in a contest for $40,000 and needs your vote. He is a San
Antonio caver who has been a long term member of the Bexar Grotto. Briefly,
he has been taking care of his girlfriend who has ALS, is on a ventilator,
has a trach, and is on a feeding tube. This is a full time job with no
breaks, and he has not been able to work. Winning this contest would be a
blessing. Help him if you can. Today is the last day to vote.
Find Roy's story which is titled "
A Caring Spirit Like No Other" and rate his story to vote.
http://www.americadeservesaraise.com/read-and-vote/keyword/roy+w
The website and all the stories can be found at the site below:
http://www.americadeservesaraise.com/read-and-vote
Thanks,
Allan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Allan,
I can tell you for sure, he needs all the help he can get. My mother (aka, Ma
Power) died from ALS in 1989. By that time I was living in Portland, OR, and
couldn't help my sister with the day-to-day stuff. Fortunately, before she got
where she couldn't travel, she was able to come see me in Nevada before I moved.
Please let Roy and his friend know that there are those of us who know what a
stressful time they're having and will be thinking of them. Meanwhile, I'll go
online and vote.
Louise Power
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:17:28 -0500
> Subject: [Texascavers] OT: Take a moment and help out a Texas caver...
>
> Roy Wessel is in a contest for $40,000 and needs your vote. He is a San
> Antonio caver who has been a long term member of the Bexar Grotto. Briefly,
> he has been taking care of his girlfriend who has ALS, is on a ventilator,
> has a trach, and is on a feeding tube. This is a full time job with no
> breaks, and he has not been able to work. Winning this contest would be a
> blessing. Help him if you can. Today is the last day to vote.
>
>
>
>
>
> Find Roy's story which is titled "
>
> A Caring Spirit Like No Other" and rate his story to vote.
>
> http://www.americadeservesaraise.com/read-and-vote/keyword/roy+w
>
>
>
> The website and all the stories can be found at the site below:
>
> http://www.americadeservesaraise.com/read-and-vote
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Allan
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Geography lesson time.
Mongolia which is the setting for the movie, is an independent country on
the northern border of china and the southern border of Russia. It has had a
long and interesting history which can be found at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mongolia
In more recent times from 1924 to about 1992 it was more or less part of the
Soviet Union and much of its infrastructure was built during that time. With
the breakup of the USSR, Mongolia developed a constitution in 1992 and is
now a democratic country. The majority of the population is Buddhist
although in far western Mongolia where the primary ethnic population is
Kazakh, they are Muslim.
The movie is in no way political. That is just the way life is in a nomadic
culture. We did a trek in the Alti Mountains of Western Mongolia and also
spent time in the Gobi Desert and had a chance to meet some of the nomadic
families. They are a proud culture who resist the lure of moving to the big
cities such as Ulaanbaatar, the capitol. Also they are no longer isolated
from the outside world. Probably half the gers (yurts) we saw in the
remotest regions, had a solar panel, car battery, satellite dish and B&W TV.
Orion
"Yeah but check out "The Story of the Weeping Camel". Same director and no
English. How'd they get the camel to cry on cue? I dunno about you but
both films made the life of nomads look awfully tough and barren to me.
Sinister and evil? I felt sorry for those folks living without
infrastructure and/or on the outskirts of decrepit concrete housing centers.
Ddin't make me like the Chinese govmnt one bit. Maybe I enjoy a level of
comfort and connectedness beyond that of the target audience?"
Andy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Orion,
I obviously missed something but when did you do your trek in Western Mongolia?
Thanks for this interesting post.
Fritz Holt
-----Original Message-----
From: Orion Knox [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 1:11 PM
To: TexasCavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Off Topic-"The Story of the Weeping Camel"
Geography lesson time.
Mongolia which is the setting for the movie, is an independent country on
the northern border of china and the southern border of Russia. It has had a
long and interesting history which can be found at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mongolia
In more recent times from 1924 to about 1992 it was more or less part of the
Soviet Union and much of its infrastructure was built during that time. With
the breakup of the USSR, Mongolia developed a constitution in 1992 and is
now a democratic country. The majority of the population is Buddhist
although in far western Mongolia where the primary ethnic population is
Kazakh, they are Muslim.
The movie is in no way political. That is just the way life is in a nomadic
culture. We did a trek in the Alti Mountains of Western Mongolia and also
spent time in the Gobi Desert and had a chance to meet some of the nomadic
families. They are a proud culture who resist the lure of moving to the big
cities such as Ulaanbaatar, the capitol. Also they are no longer isolated
from the outside world. Probably half the gers (yurts) we saw in the
remotest regions, had a solar panel, car battery, satellite dish and B&W TV.
Orion
"Yeah but check out "The Story of the Weeping Camel". Same director and no
English. How'd they get the camel to cry on cue? I dunno about you but
both films made the life of nomads look awfully tough and barren to me.
Sinister and evil? I felt sorry for those folks living without
infrastructure and/or on the outskirts of decrepit concrete housing centers.
Ddin't make me like the Chinese govmnt one bit. Maybe I enjoy a level of
comfort and connectedness beyond that of the target audience?"
Andy
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey
Friends
Gracias!! for all.
Thank you for coming to my both party.
I will leave Texas the next Thursday. I will miss you.
But I want to see you in EspeleoCoahuila2011 in July 1-4 in Parras.
See you soon
Love
moni
--
LCC Monica Grissel Ponce Gonzalez
San Antonio, Texas
[email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My plan to drive to Vermont appears to have imploded, although it
is still on the table.
I found 2 rides on Craiglist that can get me as close as Schenectady,
New York by Sunday, but the route is via Cleveland, which is not the
best route from Houston.
There is a caver in Indiana, ( Kento ? ) wanting to drive up to
Vermont with somebody,
and another in Nashville, TN ( Bruce Robtoy, [email protected] )
and another in St. Louis, MO
( 636-667-4164 or [email protected] ).
I think there is still an inexpensive flight out of Austin via
Southwest Airlines to
Manchester, NH if you are willing to flight out the Tuesday of the convention
and come back on the following Tuesday. But all the flights out of Houston,
are too high now.
David Locklear
281-960-0687
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--- Begin Message ---
I am not sure if this is new news. I don't know if it anything
useful to look for caves
on Mars:
http://www.worldwidetelescope.org/whatIs/whatisWWT.aspx?Page=Mars
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For those that don't keep up with the Rockies caving scene, the USFS has
officially closed their Region 3 caves for a 12 month period in response to
the WNS situation. The states affected by the closure are Colorado,
Wyoming, South Dakota, Nebraska and Kansas. For more information, see:
_http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/wns/index.shtml_
(http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/wns/index.shtml)
Note that the FAQ on the above site contains the most relevant information
to cavers. The details of what constitutes permissible research and other
closure exemptions have not been worked out.
To read the official closure order:
_http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/news/2010/july/nr-wnsclosureorder-final7-27-10.pdf_
(http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/news/2010/july/nr-wnsclosureorder-final7-27-10.pdf)
Jerry.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's Region 2. R3 is AZ and NM.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Me falta la culpa ! Sr. Kennedy is correcto.
Geraldo.
In a message dated 7/27/2010 11:18:58 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
That's Region 2. R3 is AZ and NM.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It looks like I may be going to the convention, after all.
A Craigslist driver with a Geo Metro travelling from LA to NYC via Houston,
claims he has room for me?
I don't think I can even fit in a Geo Metro, much less bring any
gear.
He just left Los Angeles, and claims he is picking up a 2nd rider
in Phoenix.
So by Thursday night, I hope to be on the road.
I was really looking forward to driving up there with the Craigslist girl with
the pet rat, but I just couldn't get anybody else to join the
road-trip, once they found out a rat was coming for the ride.
I haven't put any thought into how I am getting home. Should I ?
David Locklear
281-960-0687
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why start thinking now?
On Jul 27, 2010, at 11:53 PM, "David" <[email protected]> wrote:
I haven't put any thought into how I am getting home. Should I ?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Forwarded by Mixon
Begin forwarded message:
From: JohnandSusy Pint <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: July 28, 2010 10:11:35 AM CDT
To: ranchopint hotmail <[email protected]>
Subject: New: Exploring Caves in Mexico
Hola amigos! You might like the following article...with lots of
pictures!
"...Soaking wet and covered with mud, we followed the narrow
underground stream deeper and deeper into the cave until we found
ourselves standing about three meters above a pool of undetermined
depth. The thick, dark liquid in the pool was composed of water, bat
urine and guano, and a dead rat was floating on the surface. Jesús and
I looked at each other. 'There's only one way to continue on,' I
said..."
Find out what happened next: See EXPLORING CAVES IN MEXICO by John
Pint at Mexconnect.com
Our websites:
www.saudicaves.com
www.ranchopint.com
----------------------------------------
May the last lawyer be strangled with the entrials of the last priest.
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