texascavers Digest 13 Apr 2010 14:31:10 -0000 Issue 1028
Topics (messages 14441 through 14459):
TCMA Auction Results from TSA Spring Convention 2010
14441 by: A. Wertheim
14442 by: Joe Ranzau
14449 by: caverarch.aol.com
14454 by: Ann Scott
Blind Mexican Cave Fish Inspires New Robot Sensory System :
14443 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com
PBSS April meeting
14444 by: J. LaRue Thomas
e-mail related
14445 by: David
14446 by: Michael Sisson
14455 by: wa5pok.peoplepc.com
Re: Trivia cave question
14447 by: caverarch.aol.com
Re: Rock Art of the Canyonland Presented by the Witte Museum of San Antonio
14448 by: Josh Rubinstein
Re: Deputy dead after falling into 160 ft pit in Tennessee :
14450 by: caverarch.aol.com
CAVE DAY Saturday April 17, 2010-Cedar Park, TX-Helpers needed
14451 by: ellie :)
14452 by: Mark Minton
Re: Free admission into CaCa
14453 by: Mark Minton
Nice article on discovery of Natural Bridge Caverns :
14456 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com
caving event question and TABC
14457 by: David
14458 by: Gill Edigar
14459 by: Fritz Holt
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--- Begin Message ---
Thank you to everyone who participated in the TCMA Auction at the TSA Spring
Convention this year!
The final numbers came in: the auction raised $3430 to help keep up our cave
preserves. Many thanks to Crash, Ann Scott, and Ellie Thoene for putting on a
great auction and evening show! And big thanks to the TCC, TSA, and Ellie for
putting on such a wonderful event in beautiful Cedar Park.
The TCMA and its members work hard to make sure we have places to go caving.
The generous support of the caving community in fundraising activities such as
the auction and garage sale during TCR go a long ways to cover general
expenses. Thank you for supporting Texas Caving and the TCMA.
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with
Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A big thanks also goes out to Saj for helping Crash and donating several
items!
On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 9:46 PM, A. Wertheim <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thank you to everyone who participated in the TCMA Auction at the TSA
> Spring Convention this year!
>
> The final numbers came in: the auction raised $3430 to help keep up our
> cave preserves. Many thanks to Crash, Ann Scott, and Ellie Thoene for
> putting on a great auction and evening show! And big thanks to the TCC,
> TSA, and Ellie for putting on such a wonderful event in beautiful Cedar
> Park.
>
> The TCMA and its members work hard to make sure we have places to go
> caving. The generous support of the caving community in fundraising
> activities such as the auction and garage sale during TCR go a long ways to
> cover general expenses. Thank you for supporting Texas Caving and the TCMA.
>
> ------------------------------
> The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with
> Hotmail. Get
> busy.<http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, how could Crash have conducted such a successful auction without his
lovely assistants? Compliments to Saj.
Roger Moore
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Ranzau <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, Apr 11, 2010 9:51 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TCMA Auction Results from TSA Spring Convention 2010
A big thanks also goes out to Saj for helping Crash and donating several items!
On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 9:46 PM, A. Wertheim <[email protected]> wrote:
Thank you to everyone who participated in the TCMA Auction at the TSA Spring
Convention this year!
The final numbers came in: the auction raised $3430 to help keep up our cave
preserves. Many thanks to Crash, Ann Scott, and Ellie Thoene for putting on a
great auction and evening show! And big thanks to the TCC, TSA, and Ellie for
putting on such a wonderful event in beautiful Cedar Park.
The TCMA and its members work hard to make sure we have places to go caving.
The generous support of the caving community in fundraising activities such as
the auction and garage sale during TCR go a long ways to cover general
expenses. Thank you for supporting Texas Caving and the TCMA.
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with
Hotmail. Get busy.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Arron wishes to also extend his thanks to Saj Zappitello for helping
out at the TCMA Auction. He realized he was mistaken with the names in
the posting to Texascavers...I think he was just having a difficult
time keeping all the young, attractive women in order! ;-)
We had a great time and thanks to all who bought items and who helped
out!!!
Ann
On Apr 11, 2010, at 9:46 PM, A. Wertheim wrote:
Thank you to everyone who participated in the TCMA Auction at the
TSA Spring Convention this year!
The final numbers came in: the auction raised $3430 to help keep up
our cave preserves. Many thanks to Crash, Ann Scott, and Ellie
Thoene for putting on a great auction and evening show! And big
thanks to the TCC, TSA, and Ellie for putting on such a wonderful
event in beautiful Cedar Park.
The TCMA and its members work hard to make sure we have places to go
caving. The generous support of the caving community in fundraising
activities such as the auction and garage sale during TCR go a long
ways to cover general expenses. Thank you for supporting Texas
Caving and the TCMA.
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars
with Hotmail. Get busy.
Ann Scott, PhD, RPA
Research Fellow, Texas/Mesoamerican Archaeological Research Laboratory
The University of Texas at Austin
[email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Blind Cave Fish Inspires New Robot Sensory System
(http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/livescience/brand/SIG=116gsutfl/**http://www.livescience.com/)
* _Charles Q. Choi_ (mailto:[email protected])
Wed Apr 7, 1:15 pm ET
Robot subs with sensory systems inspired by blind cave fish could help
make the droids more autonomous.
Although robots can handle corrosive and toxic gases, moisture, dirt and
germs all right, they can typically only do their jobs if each step is
precisely programmed beforehand. Autonomous _robots_
(http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/livescience/sc_livescience/storytext/blindcavefishinspiresnewrobotsenso
rysystem/35732458/SIG=11t3odtnl/*http://www.technewsdaily.com/5-reasons-to-f
ear-robots-0301/) , on the other hand, could react somewhat intelligently
to their surroundings, and perform their tasks largely independently - or
at least that's the hope.
One key to autonomy is the development of sensory systems that allow robots
to recognize the situations they are in to fulfill their tasks. Harsh
environments can overwhelm conventional senses with dust or fumes, so new
senses might be called for, including ones people lack but that are found
elsewhere in the animal kingdom.
One favorite creature of researchers at the University of Technology Munich
in Germany is the blind Mexican cave fish, a subspecies of Astyanax
mexicanus. This subterranean creature has no need for sight in the darkness,
and
as it matures its eyes degenerate.
Regardless, it has no difficulty navigating its pitch-black habitat with
its lateral line, an organ that is also found in sharks, other fish, and some
aquatic amphibians.
The lateral line
The _lateral line_
(http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/livescience/sc_livescience/storytext/blindcavefishinspiresnewrobotsensorysystem/35732458/SIG=11s888
tba/*http://www.livescience.com/animals/060207_shark_sense.html) , which is
non-existent in land animals, extends along both sides of the body. It is
composed of hundreds to thousands of fine sensory hairs located on the
scales or in tiny ducts beneath the skin.
They help creatures perceive minute variations in water flow and pressure,
generating very detailed pictures of their immediate surroundings, even in
murky water, and at a range of about the length of their body. The lateral
line system can be used to reveal where obstacles lie, where dangers lurk
and where prey is to be found.
In terms of precision, the lateral line is comparable with the human inner
ear, where hundreds of thousands of fine sensory hairs enable us to
distinguish between sounds. For example, the African clawed frog Xenopus
laevis
can use its lateral line to distinguish edible and inedible insects on the
basis of water-borne vibrations.
Artificial lateral lines could prove especially helpful for robot
_submarines_
(http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/livescience/sc_livescience/storytext/blindcavefishinspiresnewrobotsensorysystem/35732458/SIG=12hi8ls6a/*http://www
.technewsdaily.com/new-underwater-plane-to-explore-ocean-depths-0153/) , as
visibility underwater is often limited to a few inches. The infrared
detectors that _land robots_
(http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/livescience/sc_livescience/storytext/blindcavefishinspiresnewrobotsensorysystem/35732458/SIG=12
de8ojp5/*http://www.technewsdaily.com/new-6-legged-robot-walks-by-taming-cha
os-0129/) commonly use alongside cameras to identify their surroundings
also work poorly underwater, and any wireless communication that robots
might use to get help from people travels poorly underwater.
"An underwater robot is as much on its own as a vehicle on Mars," said
researcher Stefan Sosnowski, an electrical engineer at the University of
Technology Munich.
Snookie
Now researchers have developed an experimental underwater robot dubbed
"Snookie" - named after a species of perch with a distinctive lateral line -
that can orient itself in murky waters with an artificial sensory organ
inspired by the lateral line.
The robot, made of plastic and aluminum, is roughly 32 inches long and 12
inches wide. It has six propellers to help drive and position it and guiding
sensors packed into its rounded yellow nose.
"Snookie had to be designed small enough such that it can be handled easily
and that it can operate in small spaces but large enough that all the
electronics and power supply fit into it," said researcher J. Leo van Hemmen, a
theoretical biophysicist at the University of Technology Munich
Biophysicist Jan-Moritz Franosch, also at the University of Technology
Munich, and his students helped develop an artificial lateral line for Snookie,
enabling it to detect obstacles and movements in the water a hand's
breadth in front of its nose and on either side. At intervals of a tenth of a
second and using only a tiny amount of electrical energy, the electronic
sensors in the system can detect velocity fluctuations of less than one
percent.
"There are no velocity sensors commercially available that fit our needs,"
Franosch said. "Therefore we are still constructing the sensors, although
prototypes meanwhile exist."
However, the complicated part of this system doesn't involve sensing the
environment, but processing these signals to create a complete picture of the
surrounding area, the researchers explained. Differences in pressure are
much harder to accurately pin down than waves of light. Van Hemmen and his
colleagues are researching the algorithms animals are wired with to analyze
their environment and developing hardware and software to enable robots to
imitate them.
>From sea to sewers
The research on Snookie could lead to autonomous underwater robots for a
wide range of operations. In the deep sea, they could investigate shipwrecks
and locate flight recorders after air disasters. More mundanely, they
could also inspect tanks and _sewer pipes_
(http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/livescience/sc_livescience/storytext/blindcavefishinspiresnewrobotsensorysystem/
35732458/SIG=12jhms22h/*http://www.technewsdaily.com/robots-to-help-repair-a
ging-water-pipes-100309-0285/) .
"Snookies could also accompany divers as partners for safety - carrying
spare compressed air bottles, or supporting divers through extra equipment,"
van Hemmen said.
Even more sensitive lateral lines could even find uses on land, offering a
cheaper alternative to laser scanners land robots currently use to feel
their way around their immediate surroundings, van Hemmen noted.
Unlike laser scanners, lateral lines won't blind other robots. As a result,
"a lot of small Snookies could operate in a swarm and autonomously explore
their environment in a joint effort," van Hemmen said.
_http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100407/sc_livescience/blindcavefishin
spiresnewrobotsensorysystem_
(http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100407/sc_livescience/blindcavefishinspiresnewrobotsensorysystem)
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Greetings, All!
The April meeting of the PBSS will be held this Tuesday, April 13th, same
time (7:00 pm), same place (the back room of Murray's Delicatessen, 3211
West Wadley in Midland.
We have trips and things to discuss and the next official PBSS event is the
April 24th 5 Mouth dig in Sonora.
For further information contact: Jacqui Thomas
[email protected] or Bill Bentley [email protected]
Regarding The Hole News (especially trip reports): Kel Thomas
[email protected]
PBSS web page:
http://www.caver.net/pbss/pbss.html
The Permian Basin Speleological Society was founded in October 1983 and was
chartered as the 300th grotto of the National Speleological Society on
January 18, 1984. The Permian Basin Speleological Society is an affiliated
Grotto or Caving club with the Texas Speleological Association and the
Southwestern Region of the National Speleological Society and supports the
cave conservation ethics of the National Speleological Society.
National Speleological Society web page:
http://www.caves.org/
Texas Speleological Association web page:
http://www.cavetexas.org
Southwestern Region of the NSS web page:
http://www.caves.org/region/swr/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My e-mail address book for most of you list some kind of work
related e-mail address.
I know some of you are not big fans of Google, but I think Gmail is
one of the greatest free software products that I have ever used.
I know of few of you absolutely hate Google for their secretive data collecting
on their customers. But there are other forms of web-mail that are similar,
and Google, is probably not the only company collecting data on you.
Gmail also seems to work good on the latest smart phones.
In summary,
In this day and age, all cavers need to have a personal web-mail account,
and I recommend Gmail.
On a related note,
I am trying hard to stop posting things on CaveTex, and instead have been
sending out private e-mails and ranting on Facebook. I have also
stopped posting
new articles on LED lights, and there have been many new products to
write about.
David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County
Ref:
http://www.google.com/mobile/mail/
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--- Begin Message ---
I am trying hard to stop posting things on CaveTex
Thank god.
On Apr 12, 2010, at 9:16 AM, David <[email protected]> wrote:
I am trying hard to stop posting things on CaveTex
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--- Begin Message ---
> I am trying hard to stop posting things on CaveTex,
NO no ... don't stop, I enjoy a good rant.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would have gladly complied, David. Sorry for loss of dramatic intent.
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: David <[email protected]>
To: Cavers Texas <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, Apr 9, 2010 12:47 am
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Trivia cave question
I was thinking about adding a note that Roger could not play, but I thought that
would be rude. Should have stuck with my instincts.
Yes, the correct answer is Gunnels Cave, about 7 miles south of the town
of Center in Shelby County.
The cave deserves to be some kind of preserve, but is so far away from any
cavers, that it would be difficult to manage.
It is an interesting cave, but has only been briefly mentioned in
caving literature.
The most in depth article was in the TSS publication entitled,
"Caves and Pseudokarst of East Texas."
Here is a group of potential spelunkers at the upstream entrance:
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr62/decomaniac/Gunnels%20Cave/IMG012.jpg
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--- Begin Message ---
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 11:54 AM
Subject: Rock Art of the Canyonland Presented by the Witte Museum of San
Antonio
To: [email protected]
Trouble reading this message? Click
here.<http://www.fellowpages.org/rockart/announcements/20100401.cfm>
*Correction: Presented by the Witte Museum of San Antonio*
Rock Art of the Canyonland
Wednesday | April 28 | 6 - 8 p.m.
How would you feel if someone handed you the oldest known book in North
America? The Lower Pecos Canyonlands of southwest Texas and northern Mexico
house the oldest known illuminated, religious manuscripts in North America,
the most complex and compositionally intricate prehistoric rock art in the
world.
First efforts to document these sites began in the 1930s; in some cases,
these early efforts produced the only surviving record of rock art.
Join Dr. Carolyn Boyd, Director of the SHUMLA School, for an in-depth look
at this unique cultural legacy and the need to preserve this resource for
future generations.
Admission is $5 for museum members and students, and $10 for adults.
------------------------------
You have received this message because you are signed up to receive
announcements from The Rock Art Foundation.
If you wish to unsubscribe, please click here to remove
[email protected]<http://www.fellowpages.org/rockart/[email protected]>from
our mailing list.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is very reminiscent of the single (as far as I know) Florida terrestrial
caver fatality: cave biology graduate student Lou Hippenmeyer fell to his death
in a 90-ft pit with a funnel-like slope leading to the pit opening. Something
as simple as damp leaves can be fatal.
Roger Moore
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:34 am
Subject: [Texascavers] Deputy dead after falling into 160 ft pit in Tennessee :
Overton deputy dies in sinkhole
Mary Jo Denton
Herald-Citizen Staff
Wednesday, Apr 07, 2010
In the woods of Standing Stone State Park near Hilham on Tuesday, emergency
workers hold ropes used by a rescue team to descend into a deep sinkhole where
an Overton County Sheriff’s deputy fell to his death. Herald-Citizen Photo/Ty
Kernea
OVERTON COUNTY -- A young Overton Sheriff's deputy was killed yesterday when he
slipped and fell 160 feet into a sinkhole in the Hilham area while working on
what was described as "old cases." Chad Pritchard, 25, had gone to the Rocky
Mound Road area of Standing Stone State Park along with another deputy and two
of the park's officials "just surveying the area, looking at potential search
sites in old cases," said Overton Sheriff W.B. Melton.
"And they walked near this sinkhole, which is about eight to 10 feet across.
Deputy Pritchard told the others, 'I'm going to take one more step and shine my
light down in there' and he slipped and was just gone. They said it happened so
fast." Deputy Derek Sidwell and the park officials called for help, hoping to
rescue Pritchard. Help came from rescuer squad members and ambulance medics in
Overton and from Putnam County, but no one was able to establish any connection
with Pritchard, who apparently died from head and other injuries during the
fall. It happened around 9:45 a.m. Tuesday. Rescuers and rappelers entered the
sinkhole later and were able to remove the body around 2:30 p.m.
"It took the rappelers about an hour just to get down to him," said Putnam
Emergency Management Agency Director Tyler Smith. And in all, the recovery of
the body took about three hours, he said. "One of our paramedics, Jim Knight,
and one of Overton's paramedics rappelled down to him and loaded him into a
Stokes basket and we all pulled them back up by the ropes," Smith said. Putnam
rescuer Knight said, "I believe he actually fell about 200 feet, based on the
length of ropes we used." Knight said the deputy's body was "at the very bottom
of the sinkhole," which he described as "an actual pit with an open 'room'
about 75 feet across." He said that even if rescuers had been on the scene
instantly after it happened, "nothing we could have done would have made any
difference."
Sheriff Melton and others spoke highly of Deputy Pritchard, who had served in
the U.S. Army in the Iraq war and had recently married. "He was like family to
us, just a nice young man who always said 'Yes, sir, no, sir' and did a good
job," the sheriff said. "Deputy Pritchard was an outstanding professional who
was a pleasure to work with," said Assistant District Attorney Owen Burnett,
who worked with Pritchard when the deputy served as a court officer. "He was
very polite, and everybody just thought the world of him." Sheriff Melton said
Pritchard had worked at the Overton County jail as a corrections officer before
completing the course at the Police Academy and becoming a deputy just a couple
of months ago.
http://www.herald-citizen.com/index.cfm?event=news.view&id=D9256BE0-19B9-E2E2-67BF9498682E0780
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http://texascaves.org/caveday.htm
On Saturday, April 17, 2010 the Texas Cave Conservancy will offer cave
related activities at five sites in Cedar Park, TX. It would be great if
some cavers can come help out by greeting, directing, and guiding the
excited people who will be coming out to see the caves.
Please contact Mike at #(512) 249-2283 if you can help out.
CAVE DAY is sponsored by the City of Cedar Park- Parks & Recreation
Department and hosted by the Texas Cave Conservancy.
The event is from 10:00 A.M. - 4:00 P.M. and there is no charge.
**
**
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That should be <http://texascaves.org/cave_day.html>.
Mark Minton
At 02:20 PM 4/12/2010, ellie :) wrote:
http://texascaves.org/caveday.htm
On Saturday, April 17, 2010 the Texas Cave Conservancy will offer
cave related activities at five sites in Cedar Park, TX. It would be
great if some cavers can come help out by greeting, directing, and
guiding the excited people who will be coming out to see the caves.
Please contact Mike at #(512) 249-2283 if you can help out.
CAVE DAY is sponsored by the City of Cedar Park- Parks & Recreation
Department and hosted by the Texas Cave Conservancy.
The event is from 10:00 A.M. - 4:00 P.M. and there is no charge.
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
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--- Begin Message ---
The following appeared on the NMCaver list, posted by John Lyles.
Mark Minton
CARLSBAD CAVERNS NATIONAL PARK, N.M. (AP) - Carlsbad Caverns
National Park is offering free admission from April 17-25 to
celebrate National Park Week.
Fees will still be charged for guided tours. The park in
southeastern New Mexico also will offer special programs, such as
rope climbing demonstrations.
The nearby community of Carlsbad, in partnership with the park and
others, plans a March for Parks at Living Desert Zoo and Garden
State Park on April 24.
March for Parks is a walk involving thousands of Americans
nationwide. Every dollar raised at the event goes for projects at
the local level.
(Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
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Day Trips
BY _GERALD E. MCLEOD_
(http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Archive/author?oid=oid:73669)
(http://www.austinchronicle.com/binary/2e6a/cols_daytrips.jpg)
Orion Knox
Photo by Gerald McLeod
Seeing Natural Bridge Caverns for the first time was a life-changing event
for Orion Knox. After crawling through a muddy crevice nearly a hundred
feet underground, he was the first human to see the incredible rock formations
hidden far below the rocky soil. The cavern west of New Braunfels is
Texas' biggest and most spectacular show cave.
In March 1960, four college buddies went through five gates to get to the
Wuest family ranch house to ask permission to explore a sinkhole on the
property. The collapsed cave was the only hint of the cavern below the surface.
On the fourth trip underground – with Knox in the lead followed by Preston
Knodell, Al Brandt, and Joe Cantu – the group hit the mother lode. In the
faint light of their headlamps were giant columns as shiny as wax, dripping
rock icicles hanging from the ceiling, and petrified waterfalls tumbling
off the wall.
To commemorate the 50th anniversary of the discovery, the Wuest family, who
still own and operate the cave, invited the three surviving explorers back
to reminisce.
"On our fourth trip into the cave, we crawled until everything ahead of us
turned black," said Knox, who was 19 years old at the time. "Finding that
first room was the biggest adrenaline rush of my life."
"It was the second biggest moment of my life," Knodell said. (Getting
married was the first.)
"It was a really tight fit the entire way," Cantu said. "From the very
beginning, Orion said he was going to help open the cave to the world. And he
did."
On return trips, the boys brought cameras to document the colorful
stalagmites, soda straws, and cave ribbons. It was under the glare of the
photography lights that they discovered the enormity of what they had found.
Knox quit college and spent three years helping build the paths and bridges
that take visitors 180 feet below the earth's surface. "It was a
labor-intensive job," Knox says. "Everything had to be carried in or out." He
was
also among the first tour guides.
Very little about the cave has changed since it opened, other than
improvements to the trail and lighting. The rock formations, created by
mineral-rich water dripping through the limestone, grow about a centimeter
every
century. Many of the names given to the rooms and features by the discoverers
are still used. Near the beginning of the tour, a sign marks the
2-foot-diameter hole that the boys crawled through. The space looks very small
and dark
from the path that winds through the cave.
Natural Bridge Caverns is about eight miles west of I-35. The cave is open
daily from 9am to 4pm with extended hours during the summer. Watch for
special events to commemorate the anniversary. For more information, call
210/651-6101 or go to _www.naturalbridgecaverns.com_
(http://www.naturalbridgecaverns.com) .
_http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/column?oid=oid%3A990619_
(http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/column?oid=oid:990619)
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When cavers get together for small events in Texas,
what is the protocol for deciding whether to apply for a temporary
TABC permit? Such as the one at the wine tasting at ICS
( that was TCMA, right ? )
The cookout that I am hosting is about 4 miles from a winery,
and they have volunteered to set up a small display booth, and I was
considering buying about 6 bottles and giving them away as
door prizes.
But they will not be selling or serving the wine.
The owner is o.k. with that idea.
Do I need to pay for a TABC temporary permit? The problem
is I will most likely have a donation bucket somewhere in the
vicinity, and that is where the law gets crossed.
On a related note,
he also indicated he is o.k.
with people having their own alcohol as long as it is not being
served at the event, and as long as minors and kids are
kept away from it.
Here is the wine list:
http://www.pleasanthillwinery.com/wine_list.htm
I am waiting on an e-mail from the winery to see if they
have a better idea.
Please send the comments to me privately, in order not to
bother the other subscribers.
David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County
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--- Begin Message ---
David, please--
This is sorta like religion. There are questions you are not supposed to
ask. Things that relate to TABC are in that category. Just do whatever you
want to do and don't make a big deal out of it. And don't post such things
on public forums and call attention to yourself. So long as you're not
selling anything (alcoholic) or giving it to minors you are OK. Giving your
liquor to friendly adults requires no license or permit or secret hand
shake. Just do it. Take donations for "watching the grass grow fund" or some
such thing and then use the money as you see fit. Everybody understands.
Getting permits is sorta like getting married--you're voluntarily involving
an obnoxious 3rd party (the State) in what should otherwise be your personal
business and inviting them, at their slightest whim, to make your life more
complicated than it needs to be.
--Ediger
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 11:04 PM, David <[email protected]> wrote:
> When cavers get together for small events in Texas,
> what is the protocol for deciding whether to apply for a temporary
> TABC permit?
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David,
Things seem to be shaping up nicely. You are obviously spending some time and
money to make this first ever event a success. Your efforts should be rewarded
with a nice turnout by friends, cavers and their families. Presuming the
weather is nice, we should all make an effort to attend.
If a larger number than David is anticipating show up, there will be adequate
food if a backup of hot dogs is satisfactory. It isn't the food, it's the
camaraderie and the outing.
If the winery will not be serving, selling or having a wine tasting, I'm not
sure why they will be setting up a booth.
The property owner/manager's conditions for allowing participants to B.Y.O.B.
seem confusing and unenforceable but what the heck, we can.
Geezer and girls plan to attend.
-----Original Message-----
From: David [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 11:04 PM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] caving event question and TABC
When cavers get together for small events in Texas,
what is the protocol for deciding whether to apply for a temporary
TABC permit? Such as the one at the wine tasting at ICS
( that was TCMA, right ? )
The cookout that I am hosting is about 4 miles from a winery,
and they have volunteered to set up a small display booth, and I was
considering buying about 6 bottles and giving them away as
door prizes.
But they will not be selling or serving the wine.
The owner is o.k. with that idea.
Do I need to pay for a TABC temporary permit? The problem
is I will most likely have a donation bucket somewhere in the
vicinity, and that is where the law gets crossed.
On a related note,
he also indicated he is o.k.
with people having their own alcohol as long as it is not being
served at the event, and as long as minors and kids are
kept away from it.
Here is the wine list:
http://www.pleasanthillwinery.com/wine_list.htm
I am waiting on an e-mail from the winery to see if they
have a better idea.
Please send the comments to me privately, in order not to
bother the other subscribers.
David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County
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