texascavers Digest 30 Apr 2010 19:13:40 -0000 Issue 1042
Topics (messages 14612 through 14626):
Caver's body recovered after 39 years
14612 by: Antonio AA
Re: Colorado Caver
14613 by: Joe Ranzau
14615 by: TM Raines
14616 by: David
14617 by: Rod Goke
14623 by: Diana Tomchick
Mexico Visa Changes?
14614 by: Joe Ranzau
14619 by: Fofo
14622 by: Mark Minton
Re: NSS Election related rant
14618 by: Herman Miller
Mexican paperwork
14620 by: Mixon Bill
14621 by: Fofo
14624 by: Gill Edigar
14625 by: Mark Minton
[Texas Cavers] Fwd: A fun word for cave explorers
14626 by: Jesse Walker
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--- Begin Message ---
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/apr/28/cave-death-body-recovered
Sherppa
_________________________________________________________________
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Emma O <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 1:14 PM
Subject: Colorado Caver
To: [email protected], [email protected]
Hi!
My name is Emma, I'm a caver from colorado and will be in Texas this
weekend. I know it's a long shot but i wanted to see if there were any
caving trips this weekend you had room for one more on. I have all my own
gear (helmet, lights, containers, packs, ect) and will bring it with me
incase I get lucky! Cave on,
Emma O'Connor
(719) 406-3526
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The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello Emma,
Call Ernie Garza at 512-847-0183 and go dig in Kiwi Sink.
Best, Terry
On Apr 29, 2010, at 2:24 PM, Joe Ranzau wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Emma O <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 1:14 PM
Subject: Colorado Caver
To: [email protected], [email protected]
Hi!
My name is Emma, I'm a caver from colorado and will be in Texas
this weekend. I know it's a long shot but i wanted to see if there
were any caving trips this weekend you had room for one more on. I
have all my own gear (helmet, lights, containers, packs, ect) and
will bring it with me incase I get lucky! Cave on,
Emma O'Connor
(719) 406-3526
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is amusing to me that when people from other places come to Texas,
they don't realize
how big it is, and how spread out it is, and how populated the big towns are.
For example, more people live in the metropolitan area of Corpus
Christi than in the
whole country of Iceland. Maybe that is not the best example.
But if someone arrives in Texas and is staying in Texarkana and wants
to go caving
near El Paso, they are in for a surprise of a drive.
The Colorado Caver has numerous options. Among them are:
1. Go to Cascade Caverns and install some lights.
2. Go to Kiwi Sink and dig
3. Take a tour of 7 nice commercial caves, some of which have
expensive wild tours.
4. She could catch one of the bat flights.
5. She could go to Airman's Cave.
6. She could go to Enchanted Rock Cave.
If she is in Dallas for the weekend, I wouldn't recommend any of those,
well maybe Inner Space.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
Are you sure about option 1, installing lights at Cascade Caverns? My
understanding is that the Colorado caver is looking for a caving trip this
weekend, May 1--2. It appears, however, that the project at Cascade Caverns
does not begin until May 8, according to their signup schedule at:
http://www.doodle.com/bah4t9d7r2657sw2
Rod
-----Original Message-----
>From: David <[email protected]>
>Sent: Apr 29, 2010 11:53 PM
>To: Cavers Texas <[email protected]>
>Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Colorado caver
>
>It is amusing to me that when people from other places come to Texas,
>they don't realize
>how big it is, and how spread out it is, and how populated the big towns are.
>
>For example, more people live in the metropolitan area of Corpus
>Christi than in the
>whole country of Iceland. Maybe that is not the best example.
>
>But if someone arrives in Texas and is staying in Texarkana and wants
>to go caving
>near El Paso, they are in for a surprise of a drive.
>
>The Colorado Caver has numerous options. Among them are:
>
>1. Go to Cascade Caverns and install some lights.
>2. Go to Kiwi Sink and dig
>3. Take a tour of 7 nice commercial caves, some of which have
> expensive wild tours.
>4. She could catch one of the bat flights.
>5. She could go to Airman's Cave.
>6. She could go to Enchanted Rock Cave.
>
>If she is in Dallas for the weekend, I wouldn't recommend any of those,
>well maybe Inner Space.
>
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>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey there--if you're in Dallas, it's not that far to Longhorn Cavern
and Colorado Bend State Park, which has guided "crawling cave tours"
on the first Saturday of each month.
Diana
On Apr 29, 2010, at 10:53 PM, David wrote:
It is amusing to me that when people from other places come to Texas,
they don't realize
how big it is, and how spread out it is, and how populated the big
towns are.
For example, more people live in the metropolitan area of Corpus
Christi than in the
whole country of Iceland. Maybe that is not the best example.
But if someone arrives in Texas and is staying in Texarkana and wants
to go caving
near El Paso, they are in for a surprise of a drive.
The Colorado Caver has numerous options. Among them are:
1. Go to Cascade Caverns and install some lights.
2. Go to Kiwi Sink and dig
3. Take a tour of 7 nice commercial caves, some of which have
expensive wild tours.
4. She could catch one of the bat flights.
5. She could go to Airman's Cave.
6. She could go to Enchanted Rock Cave.
If she is in Dallas for the weekend, I wouldn't recommend any of
those,
well maybe Inner Space.
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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: [email protected]
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On some Belize sites I visit they are starting to make noise about Mexico
visa changes May 1st. The big one seems like maybe the tourist visa we now
use for caving is going away and being replaced by one that is good for 180
days. The down side being you are only allowed one per 365 days. Not sure
as my spanish is poor. Also sounds like we may be able to apply online
similar to the vehicle permits.
Here are the sites listed as reference.
http://www.inm.gob.mx/index.php
http://rollybrook.com/how_to_move_to_mexico.htm
http://www.mexperience.com/blogs/mexicoinsight/?p=256
I'll let someone better informed than me figure this out and explain.
Joe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, Joe!
I checked the Instituto Nacional de Migracion's website. Actually, the
changes are valid from April 30, 2010 (today!).
There are new forms to be filled out. For non-Mexicans it would be a FMM
(Forma Migratoria Multiple). It has two parts, one to be delivered when
entering Mexico (Registro de entrada), and you should keep the other
part (Registro de salida) and deliver it when leaving Mexico. when
leaving Mexico. If arriving by plane, you should get it on board, if
driving, at the immigration checkpoint.
I didn't see anything that said that you can only get one 180 day stay
per 365 days. Perhaps it was a misinterpretation? What is mentioned is
that under a tourist visa the longest possible stay is 180 days. If when
entering Mexico as a tourist you get a stamp for less than 180 days and
you want to extend the stay, you can do so, but only up to 180 days,
counting from when you entered Mexico. For longer stays, the immigration
status has to be changed (it wouldn't fall under a "tourist" visa).
For a tourist visa, the requirements are:
* Filled out form ("Formato de internaci�n").
* Copy of passport or official government ID/travel card.
* Documents that show economic solvency.
And yes, you may be able to submit the "formato de internaci�n" online!
I got to that page but I didn't want to submit any information.
- Fofo
Joe Ranzau wrote, on 29/4/10 19:39 :
On some Belize sites I visit they are starting to make noise about
Mexico visa changes May 1st. The big one seems like maybe the tourist
visa we now use for caving is going away and being replaced by one that
is good for 180 days. The down side being you are only allowed one per
365 days. Not sure as my spanish is poor. Also sounds like we may be
able to apply online similar to the vehicle permits.
Here are the sites listed as reference.
http://www.inm.gob.mx/index.php
http://rollybrook.com/how_to_move_to_mexico.htm
http://www.mexperience.com/blogs/mexicoinsight/?p=256
I'll let someone better informed than me figure this out and explain.
Joe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The tourist visas we already use can be good for up to 180
days, so that will not be anything new. They don't always offer you
that long initially, but if you ask they usually will. I can't
imagine they would limit anyone to only one visa per year. Maybe
that only applies if you actually stay for 180 days. Then they might
not let you have another 180 days right afterwards. There's an
English version of the Mexican immigration site at
<http://www.inm.gob.mx/EN/index.php>. I don't have time to look
through it carefully at the moment.
Mark Minton
At 10:39 PM 4/29/2010, Joe Ranzau wrote:
On some Belize sites I visit they are starting to make noise about
Mexico visa changes May 1st. The big one seems like maybe the
tourist visa we now use for caving is going away and being replaced
by one that is good for 180 days. The down side being you are only
allowed one per 365 days. Not sure as my spanish is poor. Also
sounds like we may be able to apply online similar to the vehicle permits.
Here are the sites listed as reference.
http://www.inm.gob.mx/index.php
http://rollybrook.com/how_to_move_to_mexico.htm
http://www.mexperience.com/blogs/mexicoinsight/?p=256
I'll let someone better informed than me figure this out and explain.
Joe
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Below please see my response in regards to advice given regarding my bid for
the BOG, I would like to thank all those who have offered suggestions and or
criticisms to myself and to how things are ran within the NSS.
*Herman and anyone else considering running for the BOG at some point:*
*A successful run is based almost entirely on name recognition and I mean
that literally. They don't have to know you and in some cases, it is better
for your election chances if they don't. There is a famous caver/author who
has always won when he has run for the BOG. As far as I know, those who
know him don't vote for him, those who have only heard of him do. And
during one term, he didn't bother showing up and we now have a rule named
after him requiring Directors to attend meetings occasionally or lose their
seat. He also had more motions die for a lack of a second than any other
person I served with by far. He was and is politically unskilled and
ineffective, but highly electable.*
* *
It is a sad fact that your statement seems to hold true throughout politics
in general, “face appeal” is just part of human nature. It has always
helped if you’re someone people know and are familiar with ie movie stars
and or famous cavers/authors. As for putting forth failed motions, I would
not fault someone on this matter. I would prefer people bring ideas to the
table rather then just being there filling the seat even if such ideas were
unpopular.
*What is my point? The members tend to vote and then not pay attention to
what the Board is doing, much less what individuals are doing on the Board.
And the Board encourages that by only publishing the minutes. The minutes
only record the votes. If you do not attend the meetings, you don't know
why anyone voted the way they did. It may appear that they voted against
mom and apple pie. And if discussions took place before the meeting, you
won't learn that at the meeting. There are discussions via email that you,
as members aren't allowed to read. The minutes are digitally recorded, but
you, as members, aren't allowed to listen to them. They are destroyed after
the minutes are accepted. They could be put on-line, but lawyers keep
advising the Board they need to protect themselves from being held
responsible for what they say during meetings.*
* *
I would like to say this is an extension of the fact that ~15% of the
membership body even votes. You will find me discuss BOG transparency at
length on the official NSS forums at
http://www.forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9824.
*What director of the NSS wanted to turn down a cave property being donated
to the NSS for free and supported by the local grotto because we don't need
another bat cave? "The owner gets a tax write-off and all we get is
another cave we can't go in." The minutes show that he voted to accept the
donation. It doesn't show that he didn't/doesn't understand that the second
purpose of the NSS is to "protect caves and their natural contents" and had
to be dragged to the "correct" position. And he would get reelected today
if he were running.*
* *
I would like to point out that there are those camps that feel the NSS
exists only for conservation, those for science, etc. The purpose of the
NSS is to:
* *
*The purpose of this Society shall be to promote interest in and to advance
in any and all ways the study and science of speleology, the protection of
caves and their natural contents, and to promote fellowship among those
interested therein. *
* *
Additionally you will find the NSS proclaims on its homepage that the *National
Speleological Society does more than any other organization to study,
explore, and conserve cave and karst resources; protect access to caves;
encourage responsible management of caves and their unique environments; and
promote responsible caving.*
* *
With these examples I would like to say too many people focus on there area
of interest and ignore the rest. I have pledged not to focus on any
particular interest group and represent the majority of cavers.
*There are three incumbents running and another who has recent Board
experience and not one of them tells us how we have benefited from their
time on the Board or how they have been frustrated in their attempts to do
good. They tell us goals, but no accomplishments. Are they running on
their record?*
* *
I would like to say that for what I have observed is that some BOG members
have traditionally separated themselves from discussions and often fail to
listen to the membership body which has elected them. I’d like to point out
the participation in the topic on the NSS Forums that I have highlighted
above. Every BOG candidate was informed of its existence yet as you can see
the participation has been very limited, once again you can find the
discussion here http://www.forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9824.
*Of the three incumbents, I believe that only one ever made a substantiative
motion. Why are they running? There are few Board groupies these days.
There are no perks and the company leaves something to be desired. We have
one candidate who is running on the platform that the Board is composed of
lazy, incompetents. While I can't argue with that, how effective do you
think he will be trying to work with them? And will the members hold him
accountable if nothing changes after he is elected?*
* *
I would like to point out what I said in regards to your second paragraph.
I’d prefer someone to put forth a bunch of failed motions then to sit in a
chair and call themselves a member of the BOG. I would like to say that
having no incentives to serving a benefit in that people aren’t looking for
those perks and are rather serving on behalf of the membership body. There
is a candidate whom is stirring up the establishment to speak and while I do
not feel this is the correct approach to fixing issues within the society
and the leadership itself, this approach will probably shake things up at
the least.
*So Herman, if you really want to get on the Board and are unsuccessful this
time, there are a couple of avenues to pursue. One is committee service and
not all committees are equal. High visibility committee chairs get more
name recognition. Hosting a successful NSS Convention is a traditional
approach, but not very practical for Texas for a while.*
* *
*There is one advantage to an unsuccessful run - if you have strong
opinions, you get an annual, uncensored, but length limited platform to
editorialize on cave and caver politics. After I came in dead last on my
first run, that was my ambition - just to write an editorial each year as a
campaign platform. But apparently, a few people liked my next one because I
won the second year. In any case, I advise avoiding a bland platform. Most
candidates sound interchangeable and uninformed. "I am for conservation and
education." Well, of course you are. But, what does that mean to you? Do
we recruit nonmembers? How do we retain the old members who are dropping
out of the NSS like flies? Or do we care? And do we actually try to
educate our members or is making education an option as far as we need to
go?*
* *
While my goal is to get on the board now and correct what is currently a
course towards disaster I am always willing to help the society wherever
possible. I feel I am more informed then most and have kept up on the
various topics as they have came up and ultimately fell back into the static
of everything else. I have read and reread our bylaws and while I am no law
professional I would like to think I understand the bulk and meaning.
I would like to again I want to serve the members as a whole and listen to
what people want out of the society. To many people identify with just
scientific research, conservation, recreation etc, in reality it is all
these things and I feel someone just needs to mediate these needs and offer
a solution the majority can agree on.
*There is almost no one running for NSS officers; they often run unopposed.
Instead of a few hundred votes to get elected, you only need seven so you
don't need name recognition among the membership. Of course, there are more
meetings, and if you do your job, there is a lot more work.*
I would like to say that very few people are seeking leadership positions
within the NSS as a whole. As we have seen the president offered to run
another term simply because no one stepped up to take his place and right
now the NSS is soliciting for two VP candidates. I am offering my services
at the BOG level and if I am unsuccessful in my bid I would gladly offer my
services elsewhere in the society wherever requested.
Herman Miller NSS# 55273SU *BOG Candidate 2010*
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 8:20 AM, Geary Schindel <
[email protected]> wrote:
> Philip,
>
>
>
> Great advice for aspiring BOG members.
>
>
>
> Geary
>
>
>
> *From:* Philip L Moss [mailto:[email protected]]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 27, 2010 9:24 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* [Texascavers] NSS Election related rant
>
>
>
> Herman and anyone else considering running for the BOG at some point:
>
> A successful run is based almost entirely on name recognition and I mean
> that literally. They don't have to know you and in some cases, it is better
> for your election chances if they don't. There is a famous caver/author who
> has always won when he has run for the BOG. As far as I know, those who
> know him don't vote for him, those who have only heard of him do. And
> during one term, he didn't bother showing up and we now have a rule named
> after him requiring Directors to attend meetings occasionally or lose their
> seat. He also had more motions die for a lack of a second than any other
> person I served with by far. He was and is politically unskilled and
> ineffective, but highly electable.
>
>
>
> What is my point? The members tend to vote and then not pay attention to
> what the Board is doing, much less what individuals are doing on the Board.
> And the Board encourages that by only publishing the minutes. The minutes
> only record the votes. If you do not attend the meetings, you don't know
> why anyone voted the way they did. It may appear that they voted against
> mom and apple pie. And if discussions took place before the meeting, you
> won't learn that at the meeting. There are discussions via email that you,
> as members aren't allowed to read. The minutes are digitally recorded, but
> you, as members, aren't allowed to listen to them. They are destroyed after
> the minutes are accepted. They could be put on-line, but lawyers keep
> advising the Board they need to protect themselves from being held
> responsible for what they say during meetings.
>
>
>
> What director of the NSS wanted to turn down a cave property being donated
> to the NSS for free and supported by the local grotto because we don't need
> another bat cave? "The owner gets a tax write-off and all we get is
> another cave we can't go in." The minutes show that he voted to accept the
> donation. It doesn't show that he didn't/doesn't understand that the second
> purpose of the NSS is to "protect caves and their natural contents" and had
> to be dragged to the "correct" position. And he would get reelected today
> if he were running.
>
>
>
> There are three incumbents running and another who has recent Board
> experience and not one of them tells us how we have benefited from their
> time on the Board or how they have been frustrated in their attempts to do
> good. They tell us goals, but no accomplishments. Are they running on
> their record?
>
>
>
> Of the three incumbents, I believe that only one ever made a substantiative
> motion. Why are they running? There are few Board groupies these days.
> There are no perks and the company leaves something to be desired. We have
> one candidate who is running on the platform that the Board is composed of
> lazy, incompetents. While I can't argue with that, how effective do you
> think he will be trying to work with them? And will the members hold him
> accountable if nothing changes after he is elected?
>
>
>
> So Herman, if you really want to get on the Board and are unsuccessful this
> time, there are a couple of avenues to pursue. One is committee service and
> not all committees are equal. High visibility committee chairs get more
> name recognition. Hosting a successful NSS Convention is a traditional
> approach, but not very practical for Texas for a while.
>
>
>
> There is one advantage to an unsuccessful run - if you have strong
> opinions, you get an annual, uncensored, but length limited platform to
> editorialize on cave and caver politics. After I came in dead last on my
> first run, that was my ambition - just to write an editorial each year as a
> campaign platform. But apparently, a few people liked my next one because I
> won the second year. In any case, I advise avoiding a bland platform. Most
> candidates sound interchangeable and uninformed. "I am for conservation and
> education." Well, of course you are. But, what does that mean to you? Do
> we recruit nonmembers? How do we retain the old members who are dropping
> out of the NSS like flies? Or do we care? And do we actually try to
> educate our members or is making education an option as far as we need to
> go?
>
>
>
> There is almost no one running for NSS officers; they often run unopposed.
> Instead of a few hundred votes to get elected, you only need seven so you
> don't need name recognition among the membership. Of course, there are more
> meetings, and if you do your job, there is a *lot *more work.
>
>
>
> "Unprecedented cave exploration, ultraconservation, and extreme liberal
> good fellowship" - Greater Guano Grotto principle, reaffirmed 1966
>
>
>
> END rant
>
>
>
> recovering speleopolitician,
> Philip L. Moss
> [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 08:02:32 -0500 Geary Schindel <
> [email protected]> writes:
>
> Herman,
>
>
>
> Even if you aren’t elected to the NSS BOG in 2010, there are other ways to
> serve the NSS. Maybe you should go to the NSS Convention to find out what
> positions are open in the NSS structure and serve in one of those
> capacities. It is a great way to learn what the NSS does, identify issues
> and problems, and to develop some ideas on how to improve the organization.
> In addition, serving the NSS is an excellent stepping stone for the BOG. By
> going to the NSS convention, can also expand your support base by meeting
> new folks from outside the area as I don’t think that Texas has enough
> members that vote to directly elect someone. Also, there will be caving in
> Vermont and I understand some of the marble caves are very cool – no pun
> intended.
>
>
>
> Geary
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video
> Chat!<http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
What's this "documents to show economic solvency" business? That would
have been entertaining back in the old days of Mexican caving (the
sixties), when eight hippi gringo cavers in one truck with $5 cash
each would head into Mexico to look for pits. Maybe they don't worry
about it for visitors from the US, who aren't very likely to be
entering Mexico to look for work. -- Mixon
----------------------------------------
I am walking down the street with Leonardo da Vinci. He says, "It is
indeed wonderful what your science has created. You must explain to me
how everything works." That's when I wake up.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi, Bill!
Yeah, I think that for a US citizen it wouldn't be much of a problem.
But, the irony is that Mexico has a problem with illegal immigration,
mostly from people from Central and South America, so this requirement
is probably more aimed at the southern border.
It is listed in the website, so I guess that now when getting a visa for
Mexico people are better off having some credit card or bank statements
and pay stubs. Once the visa is issued there shouldn't be a need to
carry these documents, just as it is for getting a visa for entering the
US for non-US citizens (although I did get once a US immigration agent
that said that I needed to carry _all_ the documents every single time
that I went through immigration when entering the US and he acted as if
he was about to not let me in. I guess he had a rough day or something,
it's the only time I've heard that).
- Fofo
Mixon Bill wrote, on 30/4/10 9:54 :
What's this "documents to show economic solvency" business? That would
have been entertaining back in the old days of Mexican caving (the
sixties), when eight hippi gringo cavers in one truck with $5 cash each
would head into Mexico to look for pits. Maybe they don't worry about it
for visitors from the US, who aren't very likely to be entering Mexico
to look for work. -- Mixon
----------------------------------------
I am walking down the street with Leonardo da Vinci. He says, "It is
indeed wonderful what your science has created. You must explain to me
how everything works." That's when I wake up.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Fofo <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...so I guess that now when getting a visa for Mexico people are better off
> having some credit card or bank statements and pay stubs.
>
> Mixon Bill wrote, on 30/4/10 9:54 :
>
>> That would
>> have been entertaining back in the old days of Mexican caving (the
>> sixties), when eight hippi gringo cavers in one truck with $5 cash each
>> would head into Mexico to look for pits.
>
>
The $5 story is true. On at least one occasion I went to Bustamante for a
long weekend with only 5 bucks in my pocket--and came back with change. In
those days $40 in cash was 'proof of solvency'. I would guess that 300 or
400 dollars would do the trick today--for a short trip at least. For a
180-day permit (I must repeat that they are not visas) it would be hard to
carry several thousand dollars in cash so flashing a credit card or two
should be allowable. Having said that, I must add that I haven't been asked
to show any money to prove solvency since probably the early '70s. I don't
think they do it anymore and doubt they have much trouble with Gringos
looking for work or becoming wards of the state down there.
--Ediger
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--- Begin Message ---
It is true that back in the 70s or thereabouts tourists were
sometimes asked to prove that they had enough money to survive during
their stay in Mexico. The amount needed was not specified and seemed
to be up to the admitting customs official to decide. The problem
for cavers who were camping out in the mountains was that we needed
far less cash than the average tourist, so it sometimes seemed like
we didn't have enough. On at least one trip I was on when this was a
problem, we pooled our money and gave it all to one person, who then
went through the line and got his permit. Then he gave the cash to
the next person, etc. It took a bit longer, but we all got through
with the same wad of cash. :-)
Mark Minton
At 02:22 PM 4/30/2010, Gill Edigar wrote:
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Fofo <[email protected]> wrote:
...so I guess that now when getting a visa for Mexico people are
better off having some credit card or bank statements and pay stubs.
Mixon Bill wrote, on 30/4/10 9:54 :
That would
have been entertaining back in the old days of Mexican caving (the
sixties), when eight hippi gringo cavers in one truck with $5 cash each
would head into Mexico to look for pits.
The $5 story is true. On at least one occasion I went to Bustamante
for a long weekend with only 5 bucks in my pocket--and came back
with change. In those days $40 in cash was 'proof of solvency'. I
would guess that 300 or 400 dollars would do the trick today--for a
short trip at least. For a 180-day permit (I must repeat that they
are not visas) it would be hard to carry several thousand dollars in
cash so flashing a credit card or two should be allowable. Having
said that, I must add that I haven't been asked to show any money to
prove solvency since probably the early '70s. I don't think they do
it anymore and doubt they have much trouble with Gringos looking for
work or becoming wards of the state down there.
--Ediger
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ironic, considering the recent conversations on the subject.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: M-W's Word of the Day <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 5:59 AM
Subject: A fun word for cave explorers
To: [email protected]
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Follow Merriam-Webster on Twitter! Editor at Large Peter Sokolowski offers
daily observations on new words and language.
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The Word of the Day for April 30 is:
spelunker \spih-LUNK-er\ noun
: one who makes a hobby of exploring and studying caves
Example sentence:
Our favorite B horror movie is about a group of spelunkers who discover a
colony of zombies in a cavern.
Did you know?
"Spelunker" sounds like the noise a pebble makes when you drop it down a
deep hole and into dark, hidden water far below. But there's nothing dark or
obscure about the etymology of the term. We borrowed "spelunker" from Latin
"spelunca," which in turn derives from Greek "spelynx." When you get to the
bottom of things, you find that both the Latin and Greek words mean "cave."
Although "spelunker" might sound neat, be careful: some cave-exploring
enthusiasts prefer the term "caver."
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