texascavers Digest 4 Jun 2010 02:44:06 -0000 Issue 1067
Topics (messages 14963 through 14985):
UT Grotto meeting June 2, 2010
14963 by: Gary Franklin
gear related
14964 by: David
the 2 big Guatemala sinkholes
14965 by: David
Re: Cascade Caverns Lighting and Restoration
14966 by: Charles Goldsmith
Off Topic - Dogs Needing Homes
14967 by: Denise P
Man vrs Wild Bat Bash
14968 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
14975 by: Katherine Arens
[SPAM] Re: [Texascavers] Man vrs Wild Bat Bash
14969 by: Frank Binney
14970 by: Stefan Creaser
14973 by: Diana Tomchick
New hole in Guatemala.
14971 by: Espeleo Coahuila
Haulers for Jean Krejca for Sunday cave dive
14972 by: Scott Kyle
14974 by: Scott Kyle
Off Topic - Need drive shaft for Jeep
14976 by: Sheryl Rieck
cave paleontology in the news
14977 by: David
cave fatality in Oklahoma
14978 by: David
14979 by: Jim Kennedy
14980 by: Josh Rubinstein
14981 by: David
Canopy for sale
14982 by: Jim Kennedy
UT auction on Wednesday, 23 June
14983 by: Jim Kennedy
O.T. looking for ride to Mexico
14984 by: freddie poer
It goes ?
14985 by: David
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
Underground Texas Grotto meeting June 2, 2010
www.utgrotto.org
The meeting is on Wednesday from 7:45 P.M. - 9:00 P.M.
University of Texas Campus in 2.48 Painter Hall
http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/pai.html
Grace Borengasser will present “Chasing Ernie through Gremlin and Wild Horses”
Come see some great footage from a recent trip to Utah to check out some
Geology.
For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see
www.utgrotto.org All of our information including officer contact info,
trips reports, new caver training, event calendar, and posting links to
beginner trips or vertical rope training are available.
Before the meetings, some may go to Sao Paulo www.saopaulos.net for happy
hour specials. After the official meeting, we continue the tradition to
reconvene for burgers, beer, and tall tales of caving at Posse East.
www.posse-east.com
The UT Grotto needs you, the caver with photos and a story to share about your
adventures, scientific research, or something else really cool. Contact Gary
v...@utgrotto.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.over-board.co.uk/catalog//bwaterproof-bags-and-casesb/backpacks/premium-waterproof-backpackbr--25-litres.p79.html
Costco has this backpack for only $ 35.
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--- Begin Message ---
According to the info I see on Google maps, the 2 big sinkholes are 1800 meters
apart.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is the website that George is referring to: http://www.iwic2010.info/
Very interesting reading.
Thanks George!
Charles
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <gv...@warpdriveonline.com>
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 4:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cascade Caverns Lighting and Restoration
To: Charles Goldsmith <wo...@justfamily.org>
Charles,
I've been needing to fix the settings on my Blackberry so it will allow me
to post messages directly to the list, but in the meantime you are welcome
to post this reply. Cascade Caverns is simply a cold trap. The size and
shape of the entrance allows it to capture and retain the winter's cold far
better than most caves. I don't know if there has been any research that
quantifies the effect of size and shape, but I plan to find out soon. I'm in
Austria for the 4th International Ice in Caves Conference where I expect
cold traps to be a hot topic. If you feel inclined, search for the
conference website and post it to the list. The abstracts of the talks have
just been posted and people on TexasCavers may find them interesting. The
abstracts will soon, if not already be available on the Karst Information
Portal too, www.karstportal.org.
George
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
------------------------------
*From: * Charles Goldsmith <wo...@justfamily.org>
*Date: *Tue, 1 Jun 2010 15:30:02 -0500
*To: *Carl Kunath<carl.kun...@suddenlink.net>
*Cc: *<texascavers@texascavers.com>
*Subject: *Re: [Texascavers] Cascade Caverns Lighting and Restoration
Carl, I don't think so, Scott told me this weekend that some studies were
done of it, trying to figure out why it is cooler.
I only broke a sweat in there once, the temp was perfect for working in
there.
The mud is another story :)
Charles
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Carl Kunath <carl.kun...@suddenlink.net>wrote:
> Cascade is 58°F? Really? That's 10°F less than other nearby caves.
> Atypical, indeed.
>
> Typo?
>
> ===Carl Kunath
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Charles Goldsmith <wo...@justfamily.org>
> *To:* Scott Kyle <sk...@cascadecaverns.com>
> *Cc:* texascavers@texascavers.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 01, 2010 2:06 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Cascade Caverns Lighting and Restoration
>
> For anyone looking for a summer project to stay cool, this is for you then!
> Cascade Caverns is a cool 58 degrees and I'm not sure what the humidity is,
> but its comfortable in there.
>
> This isn't your typical Texas cave.
>
> Scott, thanks for having me this weekend, I had a blast and am looking
> forward to the next trip out there.
>
> Charles
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Two friends have recently told me of sweet stray dogs that have come into their
lives and need homes. One is a young, small dog and the other a young, medium
sized Cocker Spaniel mix. Not sure of details, but both sound sweet, so please
contact me off list of you need a new doggy companion. I try not to post too
much off topic stuff to Texascavers, but these dogs are desperate!
Thanks,
Denise
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Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For what it's worth, the Discovery Channel did reply today to my negative rant.
DirtDoc
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Dear Viewer:
Thank you very much for taking the time to write in and express your views
about Man vs. Wild. Your opinions are very important to us and we take the
time to review each one carefully.
As a survival how-to show, Man vs. Wild provides important information that
can be used in life-threatening situations -- if faced with danger,
starvation and dehydration.
Please know that maintaining the integrity of our network is our primary
goal.
We appreciate your feedback, and thank you again.
Sincerely,
Viewer Relations
Discovery Channel
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got exactly the same canned reply.
-katie
At 5:21 PM +0000 6/2/10, dirt...@comcast.net wrote:
For what it's worth, the Discovery Channel did
reply today to my negative rant.
DirtDoc
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Dear Viewer:
Thank you very much for taking the time to write in and express your views
about Man vs. Wild. Your opinions are very important to us and we take the
time to review each one carefully.
As a survival how-to show, Man vs. Wild provides important information that
can be used in life-threatening situations -- if faced with danger,
starvation and dehydration.
Please know that maintaining the integrity of our network is our primary
goal.
We appreciate your feedback, and thank you again.
Sincerely,
Viewer Relations
Discovery Channel
--
************************
Katherine Arens Office Phones: (512) 232-6363
k.ar...@mail.utexas.edu Dept. Phone: (512) 471-4123
Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
1 University Station C3300 Bldg.Location: Burdine 336
University of Texas at Austin Office: Burdine 320
Austin, TX 78712-0304
-. .-
_..-'( )`-.._
./'. '||\\. (\_/) .//||` .`\.
./'.|'.'||||\\|.. )O O( ..|//||||`.`|.`\.
./'..|'.|| |||||\`````` '`" '` ''''''/||||| ||.`|..`\.
./'.||'.|||| ||||||||||||. . |||||||||||| ||||.`||.`\.
/'|||'.|||||| ||||||||||||{ }|||||||||||| ||||||.`|||`\
'.|||'.||||||| ||||||||||||{ }|||||||||||| |||||||.`|||.`
'.||| ||||||||| |/' ``\||`` ''||/'' `\| ||||||||| |||.`
|/' \./' `\./ \!|\ /|!/ \./' `\./ `\|
V V V }' `\ /' `{ V V V
` ` ` V ' ' '
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got the same dismissive reply.
I wonder if Discovery Channel would have approved an episode showing Bear
Grylls clubbing baby seals as important public service information for those
viewers who might one day be faced with starvation on an ice floe.
On 6/2/10 10:21 AM, "Dwight Deal" <dirt...@comcast.net> wrote:
> For what it's worth, the Discovery Channel did reply today to my negative
> rant.
>
>
>
> DirtDoc
>
>
>
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
> Dear Viewer:
>
> Thank you very much for taking the time to write in and express your views
> about Man vs. Wild. Your opinions are very important to us and we take the
> time to review each one carefully.
>
> As a survival how-to show, Man vs. Wild provides important information that
> can be used in life-threatening situations -- if faced with danger,
> starvation and dehydration.
>
> Please know that maintaining the integrity of our network is our primary
> goal.
>
> We appreciate your feedback, and thank you again.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Viewer Relations
> Discovery Channel
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well after global warming I'm sure we'll be in for an Ice Age ;-)
From: Frank Binney [mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 12:33 PM
To: Dwight Deal; Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] [SPAM] Re: [Texascavers] Man vrs Wild Bat Bash
I got the same dismissive reply.
I wonder if Discovery Channel would have approved an episode showing
Bear Grylls clubbing baby seals as important public service information
for those viewers who might one day be faced with starvation on an ice
floe.
On 6/2/10 10:21 AM, "Dwight Deal" <dirt...@comcast.net> wrote:
For what it's worth, the Discovery Channel did reply today to my
negative rant.
DirtDoc
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Dear Viewer:
Thank you very much for taking the time to write in and express your
views
about Man vs. Wild. Your opinions are very important to us and we take
the
time to review each one carefully.
As a survival how-to show, Man vs. Wild provides important information
that
can be used in life-threatening situations -- if faced with danger,
starvation and dehydration.
Please know that maintaining the integrity of our network is our primary
goal.
We appreciate your feedback, and thank you again.
Sincerely,
Viewer Relations
Discovery Channel
--
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any
medium. Thank you.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder if Discovery Channel would have approved an episode showing
Bear Grylls clubbing baby seals as important public service
information for those viewers who might one day be faced with
starvation on an ice floe.
Speaking of starvation on an ice floe--I finally got around to
watching the old classic silent film, "Nanook of the North" recently,
as it was showing on the Turner Classic Movie channel as part of their
"Native Americans in the Movies" month. For those who are unfamiliar
with this gem of a documentary film made by Robert J. Flaherty in
1922, Nanook must provide for his family by living off the land. This
includes some amazing footage of spearing fish through holes in the
ice, catching and slaughtering a really large seal and also a HUGE
walrus. The movie was controversial not for its depictions of
catching, slaughtering and eating raw some "cute" polar mammals
(including a beautiful arctic fox) but because Flaherty had depicted
some staged events as reality, though this was a normal thing for
"documentary" filmmakers to do at the time. He was forced to stage
some (if not all) of the hunts due to limitations with the camera
technology of the time. He had to work with cameras that were big and
bulky, and his "interior" shots in the igloos were actually taken
inside a 3-walled igloo to increase the light levels. Flaherty claimed
that Nanook died of starvation two years after the filming, when in
fact he probably died of tuberculosis (as did a lot of people in those
days).
And despite knowing that a lot of the footage was staged--I was still
thrilled to watch Nanook and his family build an igloo, kayak though
the ice floes with grace and style, fish and hunt with great skill and
gusto, and stomp around in icy waters wearing only sealskin boots on
their feet. Obviously they were at home in this harsh environment and
knew what sort of things they needed to do to survive. I doubt they
would have hesitated to club and eat a baby seal for dinner if one
came their way.
Diana
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)
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--- Begin Message ---
¿Ya vieron? look!!!
http://www.creativewebcolombia.com/blog/2010/06/01/impresionante-hundimiento-en-guatemala/
--
LCC Monica Grissel Ponce Gonzalez
San Antonio, Texas
espeleocoahu...@gmail.com
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--- Begin Message ---
We're looking for 6 to 8 experienced cavers/haulers for the first (intentional)
dive of the Cascade Caverns lower cave. There will also be a film crew shooting
her dive and the cave a the same time but there is plenty of room down there.
This would be a whole day starting at about 10am until 6pm but that could slide
depending on conditions. We are also offering camping free to those who want to
stay before or after.
Let me know asap.
Best, Scott
(804)402-8985
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--- Begin Message ---
Sorry. For THIS Sunday (JUNE 6TH).
On Jun 2, 2010, at 3:29 PM, rafal kedzierski wrote:
> I'm interested.. Just have to know when...
>
> Rafal Kedzierski
>
> > From: sk...@cascadecaverns.com
> > Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 13:45:46 -0500
> > To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> > Subject: [Texascavers] Haulers for Jean Krejca for Sunday cave dive
> >
> > We're looking for 6 to 8 experienced cavers/haulers for the first
> > (intentional) dive of the Cascade Caverns lower cave. There will also be a
> > film crew shooting her dive and the cave a the same time but there is
> > plenty of room down there. This would be a whole day starting at about 10am
> > until 6pm but that could slide depending on conditions. We are also
> > offering camping free to those who want to stay before or after.
> >
> > Let me know asap.
> >
> > Best, Scott
> > (804)402-8985
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> >
>
> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
> inbox. See how.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We are in search of a rear drive shaft for our 2003 Jeep Wrangler. We are
having trouble finding a used one. Do any of you happen to know of a Jeep
graveyard where we might find one? We are not having luck with the online
used parts sites. We would appreciate any ideas. We are not opposed to
paying shipping from anywhere in the US or going to San Antonio, Austin,
Houston, or anywhere within a couple hundred miles of Corpus to pull it
ourselves if the price is right.
Thanks!
Sheryl
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--- Begin Message ---
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science_and_environment/10147688.stm
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--- Begin Message ---
http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0610/741862.html
http://blog.newsok.com/outthere/2010/06/02/oklahoma-man-dies-in-cave-accident/
http://www.koco.com/news/23766661/detail.html
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--- Begin Message ---
This is a mine, not a cave.
-----Original Message-----
From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 10:48 PM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] cave fatality in Oklahoma
http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0610/741862.html
http://blog.newsok.com/outthere/2010/06/02/oklahoma-man-dies-in-cave-acc
ident/
http://www.koco.com/news/23766661/detail.html
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--- Begin Message ---
I once was in a room and pillor mine under Howe Caverns in New York when a
portion of the roof behind me collapsed. Caves are safer than mines.
Josh
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:47 PM, David <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0610/741862.html
>
>
> http://blog.newsok.com/outthere/2010/06/02/oklahoma-man-dies-in-cave-accident/
>
> http://www.koco.com/news/23766661/detail.html
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From an article posted on the web today:
"From what we understand, he went in with one flashlight, and there is
no natural light," he said.
Muskogee Emergency Management Director Jimmy Moore said the cave has a
small opening
but is massive, with several bodies of water.
Chennault said the cave encompasses about 160 acres and the lake about
50 acres.
Rolands' vehicle was parked near a padlocked gate leading to the cave
on private property.
The cave was once boarded up, but people had broken into it over the
years, Moore said.
Family members told authorities that Rolands liked to explore caves.
Chennault said the cave is really an abandoned rock quarry within a mountain.
The rock was stripped out years ago and used to build the dam.
Rolands' wallet and personal belongings were found in his truck.
His clothes and keys were found in the cave, Moore said.
Below are my comments:
Without knowing more about the accident, you can only make assumptions
as to what happened to him.
It seems apparent that he did not tell anybody he was going in the cave, or for
how long he would be gone.
He didn't have a headlamp and probably didn't have a
helmet, but that probably did not have an effect on his predicament, unless he
fell and hit his head before falling in the water.
He apparently only had once source of light, which most likely led to
his problems.
I bet he ran out of light and wandered around in circles for a while
till he became
exhausted and then fell in he water and panicked and was too tired to
climb out of
the water.
Had he had a really good flashlight, then maybe he would have been o.k.
if he were not wandering too far past the twilight zone. He might have had
a good flashlight, but if so, he probably didn't have extra batteries.
In this case, had he chosen to stay put and wait for help, he would
have survived,
presuming the air quality in the mine was safe.
The water was probably cold, so once he fell in ( in total darkness )
he was in a
real mess, especially if he was waited down with boots, and cotton clothes, etc.
The mine probably once had a large entrance somewhere once that had
been filled in
or collapsed.
Unfortunately, the general public will think caving is crazy, and they
will consider
this a caving accident. Anti-spelunkers will call it a spelunking accident.
I do not consider this a spelunking accident.
The victim may have liked caves, but he over-estimated his ability to
use common
sense or good judgement. He was over-confident that he could safely
enter this
mine. A cheap $ 4 back-up light from a dollar store, would have probably
saved his life.
David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County
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--- Begin Message ---
This was posted on TAG-Net Digest last night. I am reposting here in
case some grotto or individual wants to take Howie up on his offer.
Naturally, you will have to figure out your own method of delivery if
you are not driving to SERA. :-)
-- Crash
----------------------------------------------------
Canopy for sale
by: Howard Cobb (Fines Creek, North Carolina)
howie...@bellsouth.net
Howie here, from what was formerly known as Howie's Harnesses. I am
trying to sell our former vending canopy. It measures 20'x40' with sides
and end panels. There are bottom feet on every pole. It would cost well
over $1100 new. I'm looking to get $600 out of it. I am coming to SERA
and would be able to deliver and help set it up at the event for anyone.
Please contact me off list if interested and I can tell you what else
comes with the booth.
Thanks,
Howie
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--- Begin Message ---
Lots of great stuff! Propane grills! A pallet of bowls! Steam oven!
Chairs! File cabinets! 5'x7' display cabinet! J. Frank Dobie's
bedroom furniture! Offset printing press! Table saws! Weight
machines! Cars and trucks! And so much more!!!
Go to http://www.swicoauctions.com/onsite/ and click on the "University
of Texas at Austin" link. I have a bidder number already that can be
used, or register for your own if interested.
This announcement brought to you as a public service. No addition
chatter on the subject on CaveTex is necessary. :-)
-- Crash
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--- Begin Message ---
Is anyone going toward Valles or Aquismon in the next few weeks? I am trying to
get to the Aquismon area, and am willing to share gas expense, driving etc.
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--- Begin Message ---
http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/csm-photo-galleries-images/in-pictures-images/guate-sinkhole/002/8062435-1-eng-US/002_full_600.jpg
The new Guatemala sinkhole shown above is about 20 meters across, so
the depth to the very bottom looks like 150 meters plus.
There seems to be a canyon down there on top of the breakdown pile, so
that would suggest something.
Anything you rig to could fall off into the sinkhole, or something
could fall and cut the rope.
Maybe a helicopter rappel would be safer?
Would be best to lower a video camera down first. Right ?
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