Okay, I finally figured SBF out after I went and ate supper. From Carlsbad you would take Rte 137 to get to either Sitting Bull Falls or to the guads caves. Sitting Gull Falls is about an hours drive from Carlsbad and 30 minutes of that is on the road that only goes to Sitting Bull Falls. From the split in 137 it will take about an hour to get to the caves in the guads. So my best guess is that from SBF to the Ranger Station on Dark Canyon will take an hour and a half. The last three miles to the ranger station is rough but you can make it without four wheel drive. If I was going to attempt to do two of the guads caves in one day it would be Black and Hidden or Cottonwood and Hidden. From the Ranger Station it will take the better part of 45 minutes to hike to Hidden and from Hidden to Black about another 30 minutes hiking. If you have a 4WD vehicle you can attempt the road to Hidden and to Black. After leaving the Ranger Station you have to negotiate the Dragon's Teeth which eat tires. Once you turn on the road to Hidden you will have a couple of deep slippery mud puddles that one of the Rangers got stuck in last year with 4WD. If you get throught the mud holes you will have some real 4WD road to negotiate to get out to Black. If it rains you won't make it. It is not called a Jeep Trail because it sounds colorful. I went out to Black last year and almost got caught in a rain storm coming out. If it had rained I would not have made it up the hill to the Hell's Below Campground which is also on that road.
If you have not been in the Guads before, it is an experience. They are very rugged and beautiful. I do a lot of hiking up there and never get over how awesome the country is. I would recommend you consider the combination of Cottonwood and Hidden. Cottonwood requires parking at the Ranger Station and hiking out the trail to the cave. This is not a bad hike and the cave is also an impressive cave. If I was doing a family thing I would do Cottonwood with the family and then hike over to Hidden with the vertical types. If my memory serves me correct the entrance drop in Hidden is only about 40 feet or so. While I do a lot of hiking in the Guads I do not go tothe gated caves anymore. The permitting process is a pain for old guys like me who were crawling around in those caves before they were gated. I would rather hike and find new ones. Ken > From: wo...@justfamily.org > Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:00:30 -0500 > Subject: Re: [NMCAVER] Guads cave list > To: ken_harring...@hotmail.com > > Oh, my bad, I've seen that abbreviation on the Forest webpages for > Sitting Bull Falls park and cave. I was getting lazy there in my > emails :) > > Thanks > Charles > > On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 5:52 PM, Ken Harrington > <ken_harring...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Charles, > > > > Okay you got to help me - what is SBF??? > > > > Ken > > > >> From: wo...@justfamily.org > >> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:24:49 -0500 > >> Subject: Re: [NMCAVER] Guads cave list > >> To: ken_harring...@hotmail.com > >> > >> Wow, thanks for the very detailed write-up Ken. Are any of these > >> close to SBF so that they can be done on the same day? I have a > >> couple of people in my group who aren't ready for big vertical stuff, > >> short drops are ok though, good practice. > >> > >> Thanks for your help > >> Charles > >> > >> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 5:13 PM, Ken Harrington > >> <ken_harring...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > Charles, > >> > > >> > Of the caves on the list: > >> > > >> > Black is a horizontal cave with lots of formations. There was a forest > >> > fire > >> > many years ago and the cave was breathing in so it collected a lot of > >> > smoke > >> > and everything was black with soot - hence the name. There are new > >> > growth > >> > formations that are very pretty. Cave is warm and very humid. It is an > >> > active cave with lots of water. Nice day trip but it will be a good > >> > walk > >> > out to it. A good four wheel drive vihicle can drive to within about > >> > 1/4 > >> > mile of the cave. > >> > > >> > Cottonwood - a large cave with many different trips available. The main > >> > passage contains very large stalagmites. There are two sections which > >> > will > >> > require a trip leader or guide. They are called the wonderland and the > >> > second parrallel passage. No rope work required for this cave. > >> > > >> > Hidden Cave - Beautiful cave. Has a short vertical drop to get into it. > >> > Lots of rimstone pools with cave pearls and other formations. > >> > > >> > Red Lake Cave - can not say a thing for the cave as I have not been > >> > there. > >> > I believe it is a small horizontal cave. > >> > > >> > Sentinel Cave - This is a vertical cave with a 260 foot drop in it. > >> > Requires a trip leader or guide and good vertical skills. Beautiful > >> > cave once you get down the drop. > >> > > >> > Sitting Bull Falls Cave - very easy access as it is in a park. The cave > >> > is > >> > located behind a waterfall. Horizontal but wet. Nice family trip. > >> > > >> > Ain't Dean's Cave - vertical cave. I have not been there myself. > >> > Requires > >> > hiking to get to it. > >> > > >> > Hell's Below Cave - very vertical cave. Lots of nice formations and > >> > flowstone after you get down two or three levels. As with all the > >> > vertical > >> > caves it will require a guide or trip leader. > >> > > >> > Pink Panther Cave - very pretty cave with nice formations. Requires a > >> > rather lengthy hike to get to it. > >> > > >> > All of these caves are located at elevations of between 6500 and 7000 > >> > feet. > >> > Hiking at these elevations is strenuous if you live at lower elevations. > >> > > >> > Ken > >> > > >> >> From: wo...@justfamily.org > >> >> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 16:41:20 -0500 > >> >> Subject: Re: [NMCAVER] Guads cave list > >> >> To: ken_harring...@hotmail.com > >> >> > >> >> Oh, gotcha. > >> >> > >> >> Ken, do you mind advising a bit on these caves a bit? I'm in the > >> >> planning phase for a trip in June and have never been to any of these > >> >> caves. SBF is one I want to see, are any of the others in the same > >> >> area or easy driving distance for a same day trip? I looked around > >> >> online looking for a general description of these caves, similar to > >> >> what NPS and BLM have posted about their recreational caves, but found > >> >> nothing other than a few pictures. > >> >> > >> >> Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. > >> >> Charles > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 6:13 PM, Ken Harrington > >> >> <ken_harring...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > Charles, > >> >> > > >> >> > They were only opened up again last Friday. > >> >> > > >> >> > Ken > >> >> > > >> >> >> From: wo...@justfamily.org > >> >> >> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:35:12 -0600 > >> >> >> Subject: Re: [NMCAVER] Guads cave list > >> >> >> To: ken_harring...@hotmail.com > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Thanks for all of the work you have done for us Ken. I'm glad to see > >> >> >> these caves back open to us. I recently had asked for permits for a > >> >> >> couple of these (within the last month) and was denied. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Charles - cavetex list administrator > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Ken Harrington > >> >> >> <ken_harring...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Some day i will remember that that the nmcaver routing does not > >> >> >> > allow > >> >> >> > attachments. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > So.... > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > The following is a recreation of a document that I got from the > >> >> >> > Forest > >> >> >> > Service this morning. Please be aware that this is a draft > >> >> >> > document. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Up dated 03/04/2010 > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > The Lincoln National Forest is opening a limited number of caves > >> >> >> > for > >> >> >> > recreational caving. The limited number of caves is due to the > >> >> >> > limited > >> >> >> > amount of time that qualified personnel are able to conduct the > >> >> >> > monitoring > >> >> >> > requirements. The monitoring will be done with assistance from > >> >> >> > cave > >> >> >> > specialist with other federal government agencies (BLM, NPS) in > >> >> >> > the > >> >> >> > area. > >> >> >> > The normal regulations will apply with the following provisions: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > 1. The permit request will be required two weeks in advance of > >> >> >> > the > >> >> >> > date > >> >> >> > of the permit. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > 2. Permitted groups may be accompanied by a Forest Service > >> >> >> > representative for monitoring purposes. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > 3. The Forest Service representative has the authority to end any > >> >> >> > trip > >> >> >> > anytime due to any one of the following reasons: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > a. Lack of proper equipment > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > b. Improper actions during the trip > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > c. Violations pertaining to resource concerns > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > The following caves are the ones open for recreational caving: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > 1. Black Cave > >> >> >> > 2. Cottonwood Cave > >> >> >> > 3. Hidden Cave > >> >> >> > 4. Red lake Cave > >> >> >> > 5. Sentinel Cave > >> >> >> > 6. Sitting Bull Falls Cave > >> >> >> > 7. Ain’t Dean’s Cave* > >> >> >> > 8. Hell Below Cave* > >> >> >> > 9. Pink Panther Cave* > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > The High Guads Restoration Projects will continue as planned by > >> >> >> > HGRP > >> >> >> > coordinator. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > * Requires Trip Leader > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > _________________________________________________________________ > >> >> >> > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from > >> >> >> > your > >> >> >> > inbox. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 > >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> > NMCAVER mailing list > >> >> >> > nmca...@caver.net > >> >> >> > http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > ________________________________ > >> >> > Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your > >> >> > inbox. > >> >> > Learn More. > >> > > >> > ________________________________ > >> > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your > >> > inbox. > >> > Get started. > > > > ________________________________ > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. 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