texascavers Digest 2 Oct 2009 15:24:15 -0000 Issue 863
Topics (messages 12212 through 12229):
Re: earthquakes
12212 by: Fritz Holt
Re: new Texas laws
12213 by: Alex Sproul
12214 by: Louise Power
12216 by: Mark Minton
12217 by: George Veni
12218 by: Ron Rutherford
12221 by: Fritz Holt
12222 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
12223 by: Ed Alexander
12224 by: Louise Power
12226 by: Louise Power
12227 by: Frank Binney
12228 by: David
Re: TCR 2009:
12215 by: germanyj.aol.com
Re: New laws
12219 by: rafal kedzierski
12220 by: Fritz Holt
Paging Michael Krell Jr.
12225 by: Mark Alman
TSA Fall Business Meeting Agenda at TCR - Sunday, October 18th
12229 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
There will be ---somewhere.
________________________________
From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 1:09 PM
To: Gill Edigar; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] earthquakes
What's the chances of there being one during TCR?
Stefan
From: bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gill
Edigar
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 1:08 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] earthquakes
In the past 3 days there have been over 15 earthquakes with a magnitude of 5.1
or more (6.0 is where they start to get interesting) in the area of the Samoa
Islands--one that was 8.0.
During the same period in southern Sumatra there earthquakes measuring 5.0,
6.6, 5.5, and 7.6.
--Ediger
--
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any
medium. Thank you.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> but what about those people sleeping in the back--do they need bed
>> belts? <<
>You do on an airliner if you are able to secure three seats and try to
>sleep.
Or on Korean Air, if you get one of those first-class suites with the real
bed and flat-screen TV.
Alex
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In Oregon it would be a moot point. It's against the law (unless you're a dog)
to ride in the bed of a pickup.
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:28:29 -0500
From: gi...@att.net
To: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
CC: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
I think it would be a good idea to have all the new laws (even the old ones)
posted by category on the internet so we could review them to see which ones we
are breaking now. They are always making new laws about riding in the back of
pickups and campers, wearing seat belts, etc. It could get to the point where I
can't put 8 people in my roll-cage speleocamper to go caving or to the NSS
convention like we used to. Seat belts are a good idea and my older camper used
to have some, but what about those people sleeping in the back--do they need
bed belts?
--Ediger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Louise Power said:
>In Oregon it would be a moot point. It's against the law (unless
you're a dog) to ride in the bed of a pickup.
I think several states have laws against riding in an open
pickup bed, but I don't know that those laws apply to someone riding
inside a camper shell in/on a pickup bed. Inside a camper ought to
be about as safe as riding in the back of a van or station wagon, and
maybe safer than riding in a convertible, at least if the camper had
seat belts. Of course logic never stopped legislators from passing
stupid laws...
Mark
Date: Wed=2C 30 Sep 2009 15:28:29 -0500
From: gi...@att.net
To: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
CC: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
I think it would be a good idea to have all the new laws (even the old ones=
) posted by category on the internet so we could review them to see which o=
nes we are breaking now. They are always making new laws about riding in th=
e back of pickups and campers=2C wearing seat belts=2C etc. It could get to=
the point where I can't put 8 people in my roll-cage speleocamper to go ca=
ving or to the NSS convention like we used to. Seat belts are a good idea a=
nd my older camper used to have some=2C but what about those people sleepin=
g in the back--do they need bed belts?=20
--Ediger
You may reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Many people complain about laws against people riding in the back of open
pick-up trucks. There is a good reason for those laws. Having worked 8 years
as a paramedic driving ambulances long ago, I can tell you that sudden
braking can send people flying out of a truck's bed, over the cab, in front
of the truck, where they get run over by the truck as it comes to a halt. It
ain't pretty.
George
From: Mark Minton [mailto:mmin...@caver.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 1:28 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] RE: new Texas laws
Louise Power said:
>In Oregon it would be a moot point. It's against the law (unless you're a
dog) to ride in the bed of a pickup.
I think several states have laws against riding in an open pickup
bed, but I don't know that those laws apply to someone riding inside a
camper shell in/on a pickup bed. Inside a camper ought to be about as safe
as riding in the back of a van or station wagon, and maybe safer than riding
in a convertible, at least if the camper had seat belts. Of course logic
never stopped legislators from passing stupid laws...
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Before I was 18, I prob. logged more hours in the back of a pickup truck
than inside any vehicle. Sure I fell out a couple of times, but I was a
dumbass back then, well maybe a little still now. How are country folk
supposed to get around?
--
Ron Rutherford
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ain't you ever heard of walking five miles in a snowstorm to get to school? :)
________________________________
From: Ron Rutherford [mailto:rcrutherf...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 2:52 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: new Texas laws
Before I was 18, I prob. logged more hours in the back of a pickup truck than
inside any vehicle. Sure I fell out a couple of times, but I was a dumbass
back then, well maybe a little still now. How are country folk supposed to get
around?
--
Ron Rutherford
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Country people? More like poor people. Paging Tom Joad.
Before I was 18, I prob. logged more hours in the back of a pickup truck than inside any vehicle. Sure I fell out a couple of times, but I was a dumbass back then, well maybe a little still now. How are country folk supposed to get around?
--
Ron Rutherford
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Of that we are certain......
Mark Minton wrote:
Of course logic never stopped legislators from passing stupid
laws...
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know in most states you can't ride in a trailer being towed, but if you have
one of those gigantic, gas/diesel eating buses, you can run all around in it as
long as you're not driving. I'm not even sure there are rules about your
spouse, kids or other folks buckling up while you're sailing down the road.
Louise
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 15:27:35 -0400
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
From: mmin...@caver.net
Subject: [Texascavers] RE: new Texas laws
Louise Power said:
>In Oregon it would be a moot point. It's against the law (unless you're a dog)
>to ride in the bed of a pickup.
I think several states have laws against riding in an open pickup bed,
but I don't know that those laws apply to someone riding inside a camper shell
in/on a pickup bed. Inside a camper ought to be about as safe as riding in the
back of a van or station wagon, and maybe safer than riding in a convertible,
at least if the camper had seat belts. Of course logic never stopped
legislators from passing stupid laws...
Mark
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Wed=2C 30 Sep 2009 15:28:29 -0500
From: gi...@att.net
To: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
CC: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new Texas laws
I think it would be a good idea to have all the new laws (even the old ones=
) posted by category on the internet so we could review them to see which o=
nes we are breaking now. They are always making new laws about riding in th=
e back of pickups and campers=2C wearing seat belts=2C etc. It could get to=
the point where I can't put 8 people in my roll-cage speleocamper to go ca=
ving or to the NSS convention like we used to. Seat belts are a good idea a=
nd my older camper used to have some=2C but what about those people sleepin=
g in the back--do they need bed belts?=20
--Ediger
You may reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I was working in Ely, NV, I was still an EMT. I stopped for gas on my way
to Reno one evening and they brought these cowboys in who'd rolled a pickup in
an effort to turn onto the highway from a gravel road. They'd been imbibing.
One guy just had cuts and bruises, but the other one had hurt his head and
neck. And, they'd lost their dog out of the bed of the truck. I cleaned the
cuts and butterflied them shut and jerry-rigged a collar for the other guy's
neck out of a folded up bath towel. One of the guys that worked at the
restaurant/bar/gas station put the two in his truck to drive them 40 miles to
the nearest hospital (less time than waiting for an ambulance) along with my
admonition not to let the guy with the head injury go to sleep. I waited while
some of the other guys went to look for the dog. The dog had some scrapes which
I cleaned up, but I think that when he sensed the truck going over he jumped
and missed the worst of it. What did I get out of it? Free gas.
Louise
From: gv...@warpdriveonline.com
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 13:47:05 -0600
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: new Texas laws
Many people complain about laws against people riding in the back of open
pick-up trucks. There is a good reason for those laws. Having worked 8 years as
a paramedic driving ambulances long ago, I can tell you that sudden braking can
send people flying out of a truck’s bed, over the cab, in front of the truck,
where they get run over by the truck as it comes to a halt. It ain’t pretty.
George
From: Mark Minton [mailto:mmin...@caver.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 1:28 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] RE: new Texas laws
Louise Power said:
>In Oregon it would be a moot point. It's against the law (unless you're a dog)
>to ride in the bed of a pickup.
I think several states have laws against riding in an open pickup bed,
but I don't know that those laws apply to someone riding inside a camper shell
in/on a pickup bed. Inside a camper ought to be about as safe as riding in the
back of a van or station wagon, and maybe safer than riding in a convertible,
at least if the camper had seat belts. Of course logic never stopped
legislators from passing stupid laws...
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There was a ³riding in a pickup bed² tragedy with some Missouri cavers a few
years back. Three boys from the Deep Ozarks Grotto were riding in the back
of an open pickup truck on the way home from a cave trip when the driver
lost control and the truck went off the highway and into the Buffalo River.
The Missourians in the back of the truck couldn¹t get the tailgate down in
time and drowned.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I heard they were on a flat bed truck and the water was only 2 feet deep.
Had they stayed on the truck bed and waited for help to arrive, they
would have just got a sunburn,
but they decided to wade downstream looking for help, because somebody
told them that was the fastest way to find help.
But the road was just a few feet away had they
waded back to shore.
They eventually ran out of Budweiser and died of thirst, so it only
look like they drowned.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A Cajun chef/friend of mine offers this suggestion for appetizers:
Stuffed Jalapenos, cut in half lengthwise, remove membrane and seeds,
fill with cream cheese and chives (sold in the dairy dept)
put 2 pieces of shrimp on cream cheese, season w/Tony’s
and put 2 pieces of bacon over shrimp.
Cook for 30-45 min on grill or till bacon is done (not crisp) cool and serv.
-----Original Message-----
From: mark.al...@l-3com.com
To: Terry Holsinger <tr...@sprynet.com>; germa...@aol.com
Cc: stefan.crea...@arm.com; wdfeas...@suddenlink.net;
Texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Thu, Oct 1, 2009 11:50 am
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TCR 2009:
I'm allergic to vegetables, so, thanks for thinking if us!
With gator, chicken, sausage, shrimp, and all, I should be able to
survive the weekend!
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Holsinger [mailto:tr...@sprynet.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 11:27 AM
To: germa...@aol.com
Cc: stefan.crea...@arm.com; wdfeas...@suddenlink.net;
Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TCR 2009:
The Gumbo we is making does not have shellfish in it.
We were think'n bout this issue fairly early on in the menu planning.
Terry H.
germa...@aol.com wrote:
> That sounds really yummy.
>
> Don't forget to have something for folks who are allergic to
shellfish!
>
> julia
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefan Creaser <stefan.crea...@arm.com>
> To: Walter Feaster <wdfeas...@suddenlink.net>;
Texascavers@texascavers.com
> Sent: Thu,=2
0Oct 1, 2009 12:12 am
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TCR 2009:
>
> Hi Walter,
>
>
>
> I can answer for Allan...
>
>
>
> We are planning a Cajun Theme this year (so bring your beads!).
Barring
>
> accidents, sudden changes of heart, etc. the menu looks like this:
>
>
>
> Starters - Shrimp PoBoy's, alligator bites
>
> Main - Chicken&Sausage Gumbo
>
> Crawfish Tail Etouffee
>
> Some Veggie dish (under development)
>
> Sides - Creole Okra and Tomatoes
>
> Red Beans and Rice (V)
>
> Dirty Rice and/or Maquechoux (V)
>
> Dessert - Gateau de Decharge
>
> Cajun Cup Pies
>
>
>
>
>
> Because the main courses are more 'liquid-y' this year I would suggest
>
> people bring a bowl or high-sided plate so these don't spill. And save
>
> space for dessert, samples we've tried have been awesome!
>
>
>
> I will send out another email closer to the time as a reminder, and a
>
> request for help ;-)
>
>
>
> Any questions please email me.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stefan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Walter Feaster [mailto:wdfeas...@suddenlink.net
<mailto:wdfeas...@suddenlink.net?>]
>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:12 PM
>
> To: Texascavers@texascavers.com <mailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com>
>
> Subject: [Texascavers] TCR 2009:
>
>
>
> Allan, what is on the menu for Saturday20night?
>
>
>
> Walter
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
>
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient,
>
> please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents
to any
>
> other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information
in any
>
> medium. Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lots of rules are made for a reason and should be adhered to. Working in the
hospital, I see a lot of cases of preventable trauma - and I'm not referring to
obesity and diabetes - but mashed/thrown out of the vehicle category. And
while human tragedy of having someone be on ventilator for the rest of his/her
life may be high, there is a real cost of taking care of trauma that affects
all of us. Various studies in literature show that behavior leading to
anywhere between 30-70% of accrued medical care cost is preventable. So
anytime you look at your ever increasing health insurance bill, part of it is
due to those wanting to express their 'freedom.' Fine, I don't have a problem
with that, as long as the society and medical providers and society have the
right to pull the plug on someone - which is currently not part of the game.
Rafal
Maverick Grotto
_________________________________________________________________
Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rafal,
I agree with your feelings and attitude. In addition to the unnecessary medical
cost and work required to treat people for preventable "accidents", there is
the trauma to family and friends as well as lost time and expense to employers.
While I am not sure that I want government playing the role of protector, it is
most unwise for individuals not to do all they can to protect themselves from
injury, such as wearing protective eyewear or helmets when appropriate. I have
had my share of injuries in my 74 years and most could have been avoided but I
am still here and sound of everything except mind. Thank you, Lord, for all of
my blessings, my wife being the greatest.
Geezer
________________________________
From: rafal kedzierski [mailto:rafal...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 3:17 PM
To: texas cavers tc
Subject: [Texascavers] RE: New laws
Lots of rules are made for a reason and should be adhered to. Working in the
hospital, I see a lot of cases of preventable trauma - and I'm not referring to
obesity and diabetes - but mashed/thrown out of the vehicle category. And
while human tragedy of having someone be on ventilator for the rest of his/her
life may be high, there is a real cost of taking care of trauma that affects
all of us. Various studies in literature show that behavior leading to
anywhere between 30-70% of accrued medical care cost is preventable. So
anytime you look at your ever increasing health insurance bill, part of it is
due to those wanting to express their 'freedom.' Fine, I don't have a problem
with that, as long as the society and medical providers and society have the
right to pull the plug on someone - which is currently not part of the game.
Rafal
Maverick Grotto
________________________________
Bing(tm) brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it
now.<http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
could you email me your new address?
Your TEXAS CAVER came back to me in the mail.
Thanks,
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
I just wanted to post the Agenda for the TSA Fall Business Meeting to be held
Sunday, October 18th, immediately after the TCMA meeting.
It will be in front or near the main building at Paradise Canyon, around
10-ish.
All are welcome!
Please feel free to comment, make suggestions, additions, subtractions,
retractions, or anything else you feel needs to be discussed.
Agenda
* Welcome and Introductions
* Chairman's Report
* Vice Chairman's Report
* Secretary's Report
* Minutes of TSA Spring Business Meeting
* Treasurers Report
* Standing Committee Reports
* TSA Projects - Jim Kennedy
* Current Projects
* Future Project Ideas
* TSA Website - Butch Fralia
* Membership Chair - Denise Prendergast
* Conservation Committee - Lyndon Tiu
* Safety and Techniques - Don Broussard
* Publications - Mark Alman
* The TEXAS CAVER
* TSA Store - Lee Jay Graves
* Old Business
* TSA Convention Cost For Kids
* TSA Store Tent Pole Bags - Status?
* New Business
* Officer Elections
* Location for TSA Convention in April
* WNS Update - Jim Kennedy
* 15th International Congress of Speleology, Final Thoughts.
* TSA Winter Meeting at Colorado Bend State Park - Sunday,
January 10th
* Anything else?
* Announcements
*
* End of Meeting (Let's go home!)
Finally, I have received a LOT of compliments on the latest issue of The TEXAS
CAVER and, with this being a special commemerative/collectors ICS issue, extra
copies were printed up.
While we do appreciate all of teh folks who have opted to receive their TC
digitally, if you would like a printed copy this time around, we do have extras
for this very reason.
If you would like a copy mailed to you, please contact me offline or, better
yet, I can give it to you at TCR, thus saving the TSA $1.56 in postage.
All non-TSA members (for shame!) will be able to buy a copy for $4 at TCR or,
even better, join the TSA at TCR and get your own copy there!
Thanks and we'll see y'all at TCR!
Mark, Rob, Darla, and Denise (The TSA Board)
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
This electronic mail transmission is confidential, may be privileged and should
be read or retained only by the intended recipient. If you have received this
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--- End Message ---
