texascavers Digest 2 Nov 2009 15:35:29 -0000 Issue 880 Topics (messages 12477 through 12495):
Re: Statuesque Cavers
12477 by: Frank Binney
12478 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
12481 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
Chinese compasses
12479 by: Gill Edigar
12480 by: speleosteele.tx.rr.com
Re: Jim White statue to be unveiled at NCKRI :
12482 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com
12484 by: John Brooks
12485 by: speleosteele.tx.rr.com
cave diving related
12483 by: David
Caver statues
12486 by: Gill Edigar
Punkin in the news
12487 by: Ron Ralph
12489 by: Don Arburn
Hudson and Holder
12488 by: Carl Kunath
12490 by: Gill Edigar
Re: Oncor land grab in San Saba County (OT)
12491 by: Susie Giles
Spurs player kills a bat!
12492 by: Alex Sproul
Re: Elections final
12493 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
Monica's birthday
12494 by: Gill Edigar
Punkin Cave survey expedition
12495 by: Jim Kennedy
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--- Begin Message ---> ³Xu traveled more than 5,000 km, surveyed 300 caves by himself² What type of survey instruments did he use? Brunton or Suunto?
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--- Begin Message ---I think it was compass and pace, and he WAS a good sketcher. I've been in one of the caves he mapped, with his map. The map looks like the cave. Like, man, that was only 400 years ago! He diserves a statue! I don't have a reference to verify that he was accompanied by his trusty dog, Chow. DirtDoc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Binney" <fr...@frankbinney.com> To: "Texas Cavers" <Texascavers@texascavers.com> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 9:03:25 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Statuesque Cavers “ Xu traveled more than 5,000 km, surveyed 300 caves by himself” What type of survey instruments did he use? Brunton or Suunto?
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--- Begin Message -------- Forwarded Message ----- From: dirt...@comcast.net To: "Mixon Bill" <bmixon...@austin.rr.com> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:24:56 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Statuesque Cavers Not that I know of. That was 400 years ago! His original work is on scrolls with nice calligraphy. There is a 1980 description of his travels: Xu Xiake’s Travels, edited by Zhe Shaotan, Wu Yinshou, 1980: Shanghai Ancient Books Publishing House. That, of course, is in Chinese. DirtDoc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mixon Bill" <bmixon...@austin.rr.com> To: dirt...@comcast.net Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:06:42 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Statuesque Cavers Is any of Xu Xiake's cave work available in English? -- Mixon ---------------------------------------- When sharing a dish with the devil, use a long spoon. ---------------------------------------- You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
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--- Begin Message ---Chinese compasses were oriented to the south. --Ediger On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 10:09 AM, <dirt...@comcast.net> wrote: > I think it was compass and pace, and he WAS a good sketcher. I've been in > one of the caves he mapped, with his map. The map looks like the cave. > Like, man, that was only 400 years ago! He diserves a statue! >
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--- Begin Message ---I don't know about Chinese compasses being oriented to the south, but I do remember reading once how some of the compasses Lewis and Clark had were mistakenly oriented to the south. They carried the best compasses of the day, made by an Alfonso Tate, but somehow a couple of them had the wrong end of the needle dipped in paint, which made them read as if south was north. That's how the saying came about, "He who has a Tate's is lost." Bill ---- Gill Edigar <gi...@att.net> wrote: > Chinese compasses were oriented to the south. > --Ediger > > On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 10:09 AM, <dirt...@comcast.net> wrote: > > > I think it was compass and pace, and he WAS a good sketcher. I've been in > > one of the caves he mapped, with his map. The map looks like the cave. > > Like, man, that was only 400 years ago! He diserves a statue! > >
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--- Begin Message ---I'd nominate Bob Hudson, pioneer Texas caver from the early 1950s. He was one of the first serious cavers in Texas and was a founder of the UTG. He explored hundreds of caves, some of which have not been visited since. He also established the first cave files for the state and wrote some of the first articles on Texas caves that appeared in the NSS News. Jerry. In a message dated 10/31/2009 7:37:26 A.M. Central Standard Time, gi...@att.net writes: Well, now, lookity here, Bill, Carol is getting together a bronze foundry. I suspect we could make statues of damned near any caver we wanted--and maybe even some we didn't. The question is: Where would we set them up? In some cave(s)? NSS HQ? On some Cave Preserve--like Stonehenge? --Ediger
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--- Begin Message ---I think the TCMA should ammend it's by laws to prohibit statues on it's preserves.... Sent from my iPhone On Oct 31, 2009, at 8:33 PM, jerryat...@aol.com wrote: I'd nominate Bob Hudson, pioneer Texas caver from the early 1950s. He was one of the first serious cavers in Texas and was a founder of the UTG. He explored hundreds of caves, some of which have not been visited since. He also established the first cave files for the state and wrote some of the first articles on Texas caves that appeared in the NSS News. Jerry. In a message dated 10/31/2009 7:37:26 A.M. Central Standard Time, gi...@att.net writes: Well, now, lookity here, Bill, Carol is getting together a bronze foundry. I suspect we could make statues of damned near any caver we wanted--and maybe even some we didn't. The question is: Where would we set them up? In some cave(s)? NSS HQ? On some Cave Preserve--like Stonehenge? --Ediger
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--- Begin Message ---Actually, I disagree. I think the TCMA should go the other way and seek to recruit one of those yard art sculptors, those guys who make slip molds and those plaster statues, and have a garden of them at Punkin and Deep. Just think of how much fun it would be to have statues of the 200 Texas cavers who have contributed the most. We could have a path and little weatherproof signs about their contribution. I don't think there's anything like it, except maybe in China. I know I always rubber neck when I drive by one of those yard art lots and do a double take on the gorillas, hippos, etc., but it would be much more interesting if it was statues of Bob Hudson, Carl Kunath, Bill Russell, Wayne Russell, Pete Lindsley, John Brooks, Gary Franklin, and 193 others. Bill ---- John Brooks <jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > I think the TCMA should ammend it's by laws to prohibit statues on it's > preserves.... > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 31, 2009, at 8:33 PM, jerryat...@aol.com wrote: > > I'd nominate Bob Hudson, pioneer Texas caver from the early 1950s. He was > one of the first serious cavers in Texas and was a founder of the UTG. He > explored hundreds of caves, some of which have not been visited since. He > also established the first cave files for the state and wrote some of the > first articles on Texas caves that appeared in the NSS News. > > Jerry. > > In a message dated 10/31/2009 7:37:26 A.M. Central Standard Time, > gi...@att.net writes: > Well, now, lookity here, Bill, Carol is getting together a bronze foundry. I > suspect we could make statues of damned near any caver we wanted--and maybe > even some we didn't. > > The question is: Where would we set them up? In some cave(s)? NSS HQ? On some > Cave Preserve--like Stonehenge? > --Ediger >
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--- Begin Message ---Is there a big enough underwater passage in some cave to use the craft pictured below ? http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/TECH/10/30/submersible.scubacraft/t1larg.scuba.ctsy.jpg
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--- Begin Message ---On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 8:33 PM, <jerryat...@aol.com> wrote: > I'd nominate Bob Hudson, pioneer Texas caver from the early 1950s. He > was one of the first serious cavers in Texas and was a founder of the UTG. > He explored hundreds of caves, some of which have not been visited since. He > also established the first cave files for the state and wrote some of the > first articles on Texas caves that appeared in the NSS News. > Jerry. > I screwed up really badly about 15 years ago. Bob was living across the street from Terry Sayther and I went over an had a long talk with him. He was suffering from advanced diabetes and had had one leg--at least--removed, so was in a wheel chair. I got the OK to come back and do an audio interview with him but somehow never got it together to get back over there before he died. I've regretted that ever since. --Ediger
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--- Begin Message ---Cavers, There is an article about caving Punkin and Deep in the last issue of the Nittany Grotto News, Vol. 55 No. 2. The article can be accessed via the internet by going to www.caves.org/grotto/nittany and following the links. Use the following user name and password: "guest" and "exchange" The color photos are nice and the cave report informative. You wall also find other articles about the ICS and a photo of Jack Stellmack for you old-timers. You may also be amazed at the list of members who include 3 Texicans. The Texas Speleological Survey has copies of back issues of this newsletter plus a hundred more if you care to visit the office in Austin. Ron
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--- Begin Message --- I, too, discovered an article on D&P in Bexar Tracks by the Bexar Audubon Society yesterday on the table at my Mom's house. It was excerpted from a letter by Geary Schindel.On Nov 1, 2009, at 10:05 AM, Ron Ralph wrote:Cavers,There is an article about caving Punkin and Deep in the last issue of the Nittany Grotto News, Vol. 55 No. 2. The article can be accessed via the internet by going to www.caves.org/grotto/nittany and following the links. Use the following user name and password: “guest” and “exchange”The color photos are nice and the cave report informative. You wall also find other articles about the ICS and a photo of Jack Stellmack for you old-timers. You may also be amazed at the list of members who include 3 Texicans.The Texas Speleological Survey has copies of back issues of this newsletter plus a hundred more if you care to visit the office in Austin.Ron
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--- Begin Message ---Gill, I believe you are confusing Bob Holder with Bob Hudson. Both were early Texas Cavers based in Austin. Holder's claim to fame was his involvement with the diving activities at Devil's Sinkhole (see 50 YEARS, page 428). As Jerry Atkinson has pointed out below, Hudson was far more important in the formative years of Texas caving. Holder's decline and fall as a result of his diabetes issues is fairly well known. Hudson left the caving community when he entered military service in the mid-1950s. I maintained correspondence with Hudson in the mid 1960s when was serving with the military in Japan but eventually lost contact. I was unable to locate Bob Hudson when 50 YEARS OF TEXAS CAVING was in the research phase. I still hope that Hudson can be located. If anyone has a clue, please let me know. ===Carl Kunath ----- Original Message ----- From: Gill Edigar To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 9:17 AM Subject: [Texascavers] Caver statues On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 8:33 PM, <jerryat...@aol.com> wrote: I'd nominate Bob Hudson, pioneer Texas caver from the early 1950s. He was one of the first serious cavers in Texas and was a founder of the UTG. He explored hundreds of caves, some of which have not been visited since. He also established the first cave files for the state and wrote some of the first articles on Texas caves that appeared in the NSS News. Jerry. I screwed up really badly about 15 years ago. Bob was living across the street from Terry Sayther and I went over an had a long talk with him. He was suffering from advanced diabetes and had had one leg--at least--removed, so was in a wheel chair. I got the OK to come back and do an audio interview with him but somehow never got it together to get back over there before he died. I've regretted that ever since. --Ediger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.40/2471 - Release Date: 10/31/09 07:53:00
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--- Begin Message ---You're right. --Ediger On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Carl Kunath <carl.kun...@suddenlink.net>wrote: > Gill, I believe you are confusing Bob Holder with Bob Hudson. Both were > early Texas Cavers based in Austin. > > Holder's claim to fame was his involvement with the diving activities at > Devil's Sinkhole (see 50 YEARS, page 428). As Jerry Atkinson has pointed > out below, Hudson was far more important in the formative years of Texas > caving. > > Holder's decline and fall as a result of his diabetes issues is fairly well > known. Hudson left the caving community when he entered military service in > the mid-1950s. I maintained correspondence with Hudson in the mid 1960s > when was serving with the military in Japan but eventually lost contact. > I was unable to locate Bob Hudson when 50 YEARS OF TEXAS CAVING was in the > research phase. I still hope that Hudson can be located. If anyone has a > clue, please let me know. > > ===Carl Kunath > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Gill Edigar <gi...@att.net> > *To:* Texascavers@texascavers.com > *Sent:* Sunday, November 01, 2009 9:17 AM > *Subject:* [Texascavers] Caver statues > > On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 8:33 PM, <jerryat...@aol.com> wrote: > >> I'd nominate Bob Hudson, pioneer Texas caver from the early 1950s. He >> was one of the first serious cavers in Texas and was a founder of the UTG. >> He explored hundreds of caves, some of which have not been visited since. He >> also established the first cave files for the state and wrote some of the >> first articles on Texas caves that appeared in the NSS News. >> Jerry. >> > > I screwed up really badly about 15 years ago. Bob was living across the > street from Terry Sayther and I went over an had a long talk with him. He > was suffering from advanced diabetes and had had one leg--at least--removed, > so was in a wheel chair. I got the OK to come back and do an audio interview > with him but somehow never got it together to get back over there before he > died. I've regretted that ever since. > --Ediger > > ------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.40/2471 - Release Date: 10/31/09 > 07:53:00 > >
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--- Begin Message ---Greetings from Clark and Susie Giles in wonderful Central Texas. San Saba County to be exact. Home to both caves and bats so I am hoping this one post will be deemed caving related. I have had a hard disk crash and lost many of my contacts information. The problem is this "green" thing. Windmills were built in West Texas to generate power for the Austin area. In order to get the power there Oncor is proposing a route of 12 story tall power lines across near pristine Central Texas. They should be using already established routes but unfortunately San Saba County has been a path of least resistance. I think I am as "green" as the next person but I can tell you this is not the "green" thing to do. Read more at www.sansabaposse.org <http://www.sansabaposse.org/> . I understand that where they have built this type of power line over trail ride areas the horses have to be specifically trained to go under them. Imagine what this energy could do to a bat or a bee. We have whooping cranes that migrate across here. I watched a flight of geese go overhead the other day. Clark and I went for an 8 mile bike ride this morning on dirt roads and never encountered a car. We have quiet here. I don't have cell phone coverage at my home and don't care. Many cavers know what I mean when I talk about being able to enjoy the quiet in caving. I'm afraid these power lines are very noisy. I am facing a short deadline. November 6. I own property in San Saba County and was never notified about this proposed route. If you are interested email me at susie.gi...@gmail.com and I will send you a copy of what the Sierra Club has submitted. I need help from organizations like NSS and BCI. I know a stalactite from a stalagmite but I don't know shit from sour apple butter about the TX Public Utility Commission or power lines. My knowledge of why they are a bad idea is more intuitive. I need environmental organizations to get on board and protest. If you have contacts in Audubon, Wildflowers. Historical Society or ideas about how to help please let me know or make them aware of what is going on. Many of you have enjoyed the view from our historic Regency Bridge across the Colorado River. It will be blighted by 12 story tall power lines that cross the Colorado twice just in San Saba County. Our local volunteer fire department barn is in the path of this route and will have to be torn down. I live in a great place and of course I suffer from the "no one wants it in their backyard syndrome" but this is just wrong in so many ways. I am working on a list of the top 10 reasons why this is a bad idea so if you have one please send it to me. Our local public schools are struggling to exist and the drop in property values could close some of them down. I am protesting on the grounds that everyone in a civilized society deserves access to a basic education. I need to leave environmental issues to experts such as yourselves. I cannot attend the meetings in Austin because the lines do not go directly over my property but anyone can protest. You can buy a U.S. Postal stamp online but you cannot submit a protest to the TX PUC online. You have to send 10 copies of your protest to these guys. How "green" is that? You can download the form from www.sansabaposse.org <http://www.sansabaposse.org/> . I hope you are all well. Clark and I are doing great. Just celebrated 23 years of marriage! Every day is still an adventure. Happy Trails, Susie Giles
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--- Begin Message ---For shame!
http://forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9307&p=77585#p77585
Crash, I think the Spurs should make a memorial contribution...
Alex
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--- Begin Message ---You are correct, Fritz and Lyndon. I can't stand myself and my incompetence and my kids hate me! 8^)> Mark ________________________________ From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] Sent: Fri 10/30/2009 4:57 PM To: Lyndon Tiu; Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Elections final Mark did not vote for himself and neither did his family. Fritz -----Original Message----- From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 3:48 PM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Elections final Ron Ralph wrote: > > This is the final report of the TSA Election Committee for 2009. > > President - Mark Alman 111 votes > > A total of 115 votes were cast > Mark, Four people did not like you. You need to work on being the President a bit harder. -- Lyndon Tiu --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
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--- Begin Message ---This is a reminder that we'll be having a birthday party Saturday evening (the 7th) for Monica (41 now, over that big hump) at my house at Mockingburd 300 (2 blocks north and 1 block west of Stassney and S Congress) in Deep South Auxtin. The grill'll be hot and some flesh upon it and we'll have some food on the table but more would be welcomed. You can call me at: 410-303-1177, or not. --Ediger
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--- Begin Message ---Cavers, There are a few slots still open on this weekend's trip to Punkin Cave in Carta Valley, Texas. You must be vertically competent and have your own gear, and you must be willing and able to survey. You must also make sure your gear is either new (i.e. never used outside of a Texas cave) or decontaminated in accordance to USFWS protocols to avoid the inadvertent spread of White Nose Syndrome, a mysterious affliction that is killing millions of bats in the eastern United States. We want to delay its entry into Texas as long as possible. Email me by the end of the day on WEDNESDAY, 4 November, if you want to be included. A big group email will be going out on Thursday to all confirmed participants. Jim "Crash" Kennedy Punkin Cave Survey Coordinator Confidentiality Note: This email and any attachment to it are confidential and protected by law and intended for the use of the individual(s) or entity named on the email. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination or distribution of this communication is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender via return email and delete it completely from your email system. If you have printed a copy of the email, please destroy it immediately. Thank you<<winmail.dat>>
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