texascavers Digest 30 Jul 2009 20:52:17 -0000 Issue 812
Topics (messages 11542 through 11549):
Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
11542 by: Fritz Holt
11544 by: Nico Escamilla
11545 by: Andy Zenker
Re: Volunteering
11543 by: mrnadler.mail.utexas.edu
Bandit Cave
11546 by: Carl Kunath
11547 by: Heather Tucek
Re: Valdina Farms Sinkhole
11548 by: Mark Minton
Re: New sinkhole collapse in west Texas :
11549 by: Don Cooper
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--- Begin Message ---
It is a good thing if they are good rocks. Personally, I never met a rock that
I didn't like, except maybe the one that broke my windshield. I have a rock
fetish.
Fritz
________________________________
From: germa...@aol.com [mailto:germa...@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:44 PM
To: jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net; wo...@justfamily.org; fr...@frankbinney.com;
Fritz Holt
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
He's not the only one who does this! I've been a victim as well, but since I
collect rocks, it really wasn't a bad thing!
julia
-----Original Message-----
From: John P Brooks <jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net>
To: Charles Goldsmith <wo...@justfamily.org>; Frank Binney
<fr...@frankbinney.com>; Fritz Holt <fh...@townandcountryins.com>
Cc: Texas Cavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2009 12:39 pm
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
LOL......Lesson learned once again....NEVER LEAVE your back pack ALONE with
Bill Steele for even a NANO-SECOND....or you WILL end up with a rock in your
pack.
Thats like one of the "TEN COMMANDMENTS of CAVING".... Thou shalt not trusteth
thine pack to the Man O Steele...
--- On Thu, 7/30/09, Fritz Holt
<fh...@townandcountryins.com<mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com>> wrote:
From: Fritz Holt
<fh...@townandcountryins.com<mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com>>
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
To: "Charles Goldsmith" <wo...@justfamily.org<mailto:wo...@justfamily.org>>,
"Frank Binney" <fr...@frankbinney.com<mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com>>
Cc: "Texas Cavers"
<texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>>
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:20 PM
Bill Steele has told similar stories and is famous for this. You were just one
of the "fortunate" recipients.
Fritz
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Goldsmith
[mailto:wo...@justfamily.org<http://us.mc1800.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wo...@justfamily.org>]
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:34 AM
To: Frank Binney
Cc: Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
And how long have you known Bill? Caved with him?
Really cool story about the Grand Canyon and your pack though.
Charles
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Frank
Binney<fr...@frankbinney.com<http://us.mc1800.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=fr...@frankbinney.com>>
wrote:
> On 7/29/09 8:46 PM, "Charles Goldsmith"
> <wo...@justfamily.org<http://us.mc1800.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wo...@justfamily.org>>
> wrote:
>
>> So Frank, what's this I hear about you and your extra big backpack?
>>
> Actually I had two amazing backpack experiences at ICS:
>
> 1) Back in the early 1970s I visited a multiple entrance cave in the
> Grand Canyon. Technical climbing was required to reach the entrances,
> and wetsuits were required to negotiate the stream passage deeper
> inside the cave (which, by the way, had been mapped by Rune and other
> Texas cavers back in the 1960s).
> We entered by way of a dry upper entrance, where I stashed the
> brand-new expensive backpack I had used to transport the wetsuits,
> rope and climbing gear. Twelve hours later, exhausted from pushing
> tight leads deep in the cave, we decided to save time by rappelling
> down to the Colorado River by way of a lower, wet entrance. As dawn
> light began to illuminate the Grand Canyon, we pushed off down stream
> in our oar raft and it was shortly thereafter I realized my expensive
> new backpack remained in that upper entrance.
> Over the next 35 years, especially when I passed below those cave
> entrances on numerous Grand Canyon raft trips, I wondered what might
> have happened to that pack.
> So imagine my surprise at the ICS banquet when Bob and Debbie Buecher
> came over and asked if I was missing a backpack. A few years ago Bob
> was at that particular entrance and noticed a dusty pack stashed on a
> ledge. He's got it at his home in Tucson and plans to reunite me with it.
>
> 2) My other ICS amazing backpack story concerns the charity of my good
> "friend" Bill Steele. One day I loaded up my backpack with heavy books
> I planned to mail home (ICS proceedings, Derek Ford's Castleguard
> book, Bill's Huautla book, a coffee table-sized French caving diving
> book, the Vertical Bill Cuddington bio, etc.) Unfortunately, the
> campus mail center was closed when I arrived but Bill Steele
> graciously allowed me to stash the pack in his truck while he, Diana
> and I attended the photo salon.
> Later that night he was kind enough to hand deliver the pack to me in
> Groad Hollow. As I schlepped the pack across campus to my apartment, I
> remember thinking how smart I was to be mailing those books home--they
> weighed a ton and never would have passed airline weight limits.
> The never morning I struggled to get the heavy pack on my back and
> made the long walk the length of the campus from the Pecan Grove
> apartments to the registration building coffee shop. The mail center
> wasn't open so I carried the pack around most of the day,
> criss-crossing the campus numerous times for various sessions.
> Finally I made it to the mail center with the backpack, where upon
> transferring the contents into Priority Mail cartons I discovered a
> quite large, beautifully stream-sculpted, authentic Texas karst rock
> in the bottom of the pack. What a thoughtful gift--Thanks, Bill!
>
>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
The hard way is always the best way to learn something.. and ditto thou
shalt not trusteth thine pack to Bill S. unless of course you're some sort
of masochist and like hauling rocks around.. I'm sure theres many a caver
trying to get back at Bill for this
Nico
> LOL......Lesson learned once again....*NEVER LEAVE your back pack ALONE
> with Bill Steele for even a NANO-SECOND*....or you *WILL* end up with a
> rock in your pack.
>
> Thats like one of the "TEN COMMANDMENTS of CAVING".... Thou shalt not
> trusteth thine pack to the Man O Steele...
>
> --- On *Thu, 7/30/09, Fritz Holt <fh...@townandcountryins.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Fritz Holt <fh...@townandcountryins.com>
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
> To: "Charles Goldsmith" <wo...@justfamily.org>, "Frank Binney" <
> fr...@frankbinney.com>
> Cc: "Texas Cavers" <texascavers@texascavers.com>
> Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:20 PM
>
> Bill Steele has told similar stories and is famous for this. You were just
> one of the "fortunate" recipients.
> Fritz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Goldsmith
> [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org<http://us.mc1800.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wo...@justfamily.org>
> ]
> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:34 AM
> To: Frank Binney
> Cc: Texas Cavers
> Subject: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
>
> And how long have you known Bill? Caved with him?
>
> Really cool story about the Grand Canyon and your pack though.
>
> Charles
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Frank
> Binney<fr...@frankbinney.com<http://us.mc1800.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=fr...@frankbinney.com>>
> wrote:
> > On 7/29/09 8:46 PM, "Charles Goldsmith"
> > <wo...@justfamily.org<http://us.mc1800.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wo...@justfamily.org>>
> wrote:
> >
> >> So Frank, what's this I hear about you and your extra big backpack?
> >>
> > Actually I had two amazing backpack experiences at ICS:
> >
> > 1) Back in the early 1970s I visited a multiple entrance cave in the
> > Grand Canyon. Technical climbing was required to reach the entrances,
> > and wetsuits were required to negotiate the stream passage deeper
> > inside the cave (which, by the way, had been mapped by Rune and other
> > Texas cavers back in the 1960s).
> > We entered by way of a dry upper entrance, where I stashed the
> > brand-new expensive backpack I had used to transport the wetsuits,
> > rope and climbing gear. Twelve hours later, exhausted from pushing
> > tight leads deep in the cave, we decided to save time by rappelling
> > down to the Colorado River by way of a lower, wet entrance. As dawn
> > light began to illuminate the Grand Canyon, we pushed off down stream
> > in our oar raft and it was shortly thereafter I realized my expensive
> > new backpack remained in that upper entrance.
> > Over the next 35 years, especially when I passed below those cave
> > entrances on numerous Grand Canyon raft trips, I wondered what might
> > have happened to that pack.
> > So imagine my surprise at the ICS banquet when Bob and Debbie Buecher
> > came over and asked if I was missing a backpack. A few years ago Bob
> > was at that particular entrance and noticed a dusty pack stashed on a
> > ledge. He's got it at his home in Tucson and plans to reunite me with it.
> >
> > 2) My other ICS amazing backpack story concerns the charity of my good
> > "friend" Bill Steele. One day I loaded up my backpack with heavy books
> > I planned to mail home (ICS proceedings, Derek Ford's Castleguard
> > book, Bill's Huautla book, a coffee table-sized French caving diving
> > book, the Vertical Bill Cuddington bio, etc.) Unfortunately, the
> > campus mail center was closed when I arrived but Bill Steele
> > graciously allowed me to stash the pack in his truck while he, Diana
> > and I attended the photo salon.
> > Later that night he was kind enough to hand deliver the pack to me in
> > Groad Hollow. As I schlepped the pack across campus to my apartment, I
> > remember thinking how smart I was to be mailing those books home--they
> > weighed a ton and never would have passed airline weight limits.
> > The never morning I struggled to get the heavy pack on my back and
> > made the long walk the length of the campus from the Pecan Grove
> > apartments to the registration building coffee shop. The mail center
> > wasn't open so I carried the pack around most of the day,
> > criss-crossing the campus numerous times for various sessions.
> > Finally I made it to the mail center with the backpack, where upon
> > transferring the contents into Priority Mail cartons I discovered a
> > quite large, beautifully stream-sculpted, authentic Texas karst rock
> > in the bottom of the pack. What a thoughtful gift--Thanks, Bill!
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's even better when you're hauling concrete pigs down into a cave with a few
rocks ... (Blowing Sink Project) ... LOL
Andy Zenker
Texas Caver
--- On Thu, 7/30/09, germa...@aol.com <germa...@aol.com> wrote:
From: germa...@aol.com <germa...@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
To: jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net, wo...@justfamily.org, fr...@frankbinney.com,
fh...@townandcountryins.com
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:44 PM
He's not the only one who does this! I've been a victim as well, but since I
collect rocks, it really wasn't a bad thing!
julia
-----Original Message-----
From: John P Brooks <jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net>
To: Charles Goldsmith <wo...@justfamily.org>; Frank Binney
<fr...@frankbinney.com>; Fritz Holt <fh...@townandcountryins.com>
Cc: Texas Cavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2009 12:39 pm
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
LOL......Lesson learned once again....NEVER LEAVE your back pack ALONE with
Bill Steele for even a NANO-SECOND....or you WILL end up with a rock in your
pack.
Thats like one of the "TEN COMMANDMENTS of CAVING".... Thou shalt not trusteth
thine pack to the Man O Steele...
--- On Thu, 7/30/09, Fritz Holt <fh...@townandcountryins.com> wrote:
From: Fritz Holt <fh...@townandcountryins.com>
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
To: "Charles Goldsmith" <wo...@justfamily.org>, "Frank Binney"
<fr...@frankbinney.com>
Cc: "Texas Cavers" <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:20 PM
Bill Steele has told similar stories and is famous for this. You were just one
of the "fortunate" recipients.
Fritz
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:34 AM
To: Frank Binney
Cc: Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
And how long have you known Bill? Caved with him?
Really cool story about the Grand Canyon and your pack though.
Charles
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Frank Binney<fr...@frankbinney.com> wrote:
> On 7/29/09 8:46 PM, "Charles Goldsmith" <wo...@justfamily.org> wrote:
>
>> So Frank, what's this I hear about you and your extra big backpack?
>>
> Actually I had two amazing backpack experiences at ICS:
>
> 1) Back in the early 1970s I visited a multiple entrance cave in the
> Grand Canyon. Technical climbing was required to reach the entrances,
> and wetsuits were required to negotiate the stream passage deeper
> inside the cave (which, by the way, had been mapped by Rune and other
> Texas cavers back in the 1960s).
> We entered by way of a dry upper entrance, where I stashed the
> brand-new expensive backpack I had used to transport the wetsuits,
> rope and climbing gear. Twelve hours later, exhausted from pushing
> tight leads deep in the cave, we decided to save time by
rappelling
> down to the Colorado River by way of a lower, wet entrance. As dawn
> light began to illuminate the Grand Canyon, we pushed off down stream
> in our oar raft and it was shortly thereafter I realized my expensive
> new backpack remained in that upper entrance.
> Over the next 35 years, especially when I passed below those cave
> entrances on numerous Grand Canyon raft trips, I wondered what might
> have happened to that pack.
> So imagine my surprise at the ICS banquet when Bob and Debbie Buecher
> came over and asked if I was missing a backpack. A few years ago Bob
> was at that particular entrance and noticed a dusty pack stashed on a
> ledge. He's got it at his home in Tucson and plans to reunite me with it.
>
> 2) My other ICS amazing backpack story concerns the charity of my good
> "friend" Bill Steele. One day I loaded up my backpack with heavy
books
> I planned to mail home (ICS proceedings, Derek Ford's Castleguard
> book, Bill's Huautla book, a coffee table-sized French caving diving
> book, the Vertical Bill Cuddington bio, etc.) Unfortunately, the
> campus mail center was closed when I arrived but Bill Steele
> graciously allowed me to stash the pack in his truck while he, Diana
> and I attended the photo salon.
> Later that night he was kind enough to hand deliver the pack to me in
> Groad Hollow. As I schlepped the pack across campus to my apartment, I
> remember thinking how smart I was to be mailing those books home--they
> weighed a ton and never would have passed airline weight limits.
> The never morning I struggled to get the heavy pack on my back and
> made the long walk the length of the campus from the Pecan Grove
> apartments to the registration building coffee shop. The mail center
> wasn't
open so I carried the pack around most of the day,
> criss-crossing the campus numerous times for various sessions.
> Finally I made it to the mail center with the backpack, where upon
> transferring the contents into Priority Mail cartons I discovered a
> quite large, beautifully stream-sculpted, authentic Texas karst rock
> in the bottom of the pack. What a thoughtful gift--Thanks, Bill!
>
>
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some who weren't seen volunteering on campus put in pre-convention
volunteer hours as proofreaders, etc.
Rae
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Click here:
http://pages.suddenlink.net/carl-kunath/Bandit_Cave_(Reddell)_July_1968.jpg
to see a photo of James Reddell at the entrance of Bandit Cave in July 1968.
===Carl Kunath
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It looks like an old ammo bunker!
2009/7/30 Carl Kunath <carl.kun...@suddenlink.net>
> Click here:
> http://pages.suddenlink.net/carl-kunath/Bandit_Cave_(Reddell)_July_1968.jpg<http://pages.suddenlink.net/carl-kunath/Bandit_Cave_%28Reddell%29_July_1968.jpg>
>
> to see a photo of James Reddell at the entrance of Bandit Cave in July
> 1968.
>
> ===Carl Kunath
>
--
Go find out!
-Heather Tuček
UT Grotto
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
trog...@cavechat.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Geary,
>The drought has opened up the downstream sump which was only accessible
by cave diving.
Has Valdina Farms Sinkhole been explored very far beyond the (ex)sump? I
see a map in the 1994 NSS Convention Guidebook, Caves and Karst of
Texas, that says it had not been surveyed, and it didn't say whether the
second downstream sump had been dived or not. There is also an upstream
sump. Seems like a good time to push the cave, while water is so low.
Mark Minton.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's kindof like saying "we don't know what caused this grassfire -
incidentally, there's a kid over there playing with matches".
-WaV
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 7:37 AM, Bill Bentley <ca...@caver.net> wrote:
> This story has has been covered by all 3 of the local network news. I
> find it most interesting when they say Experts don't know why this happens
> and in the finishing sentence of the news story they comment on how it is
> near an injection well.
>
> Bill
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* jerryat...@aol.com
> *To:* Texascavers@texascavers.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:43 AM
> *Subject:* [Texascavers] New sinkhole collapse in west Texas :
>
> *Giant Sinkhole Collapses Near Denver City
>
> *Eddie Garcia
> CBS 7 News
> July 28, 2009
>
> Denver City, Texas - A giant geographical phenomenon has opened up just two
> miles northeast of Denver City.
>
> The enormous sink hole opened up just last night and is on Occidental
> Permian Inc. property. Company officials would not allow us near the site
> but did provide us with aerial photos. It is a sinkhole 70 yards long almost
> 70 yards wide and about 50 feet deep. Permian Occidental says all the wells
> in the area have been shut-in as a precaution. So far no injuries are being
> reported or any impacts outside the immediate vicinity of the hole. Local
> and state authorities have been notified and are now working with Occidental
> crews. Right now an independent fire and safety company is on location and
> the entire area is secured.
> http://www.cbs7kosa.com/news/details.asp?ID=14003
>
> Video of the sink at:
> http://permianbasin360.com/content/fulltext/?cid=47132
>
> *State probing new area sinkhole* By Joshua Hull | AVALANCHE-JOURNAL
>
> *Thursday, July 30, 2009*
> Story last updated at 7/30/2009 - 1:31 am
>
> State officials are investigating what caused a large sinkhole to suddenly
> appear earlier this week in an oil field near Denver City.
>
> The sinkhole, measured at 76 feet by 70 feet and 48 feet deep, was
> discovered by a worker late Monday on oil and gas land owned by Occidental
> Permian Limited, said Stacie Fowler with the Texas Railroad Commission.
> No one was injured when the ground collapsed, and one well of 1,750 at the
> field was damaged by the collapse, Fowler said. Some wells in the vicinity
> have been temporarily shut down.
>
> "We make sure more damage doesn't happen as best we can," she said, adding
> no cause has yet been determined.
>
> Sinkholes are a more common occurrence in East Texas and can be caused by
> several different factors, said Mike Turco, chief of the Gulf Coast Office
> for the U.S. Geological Survey.
>
> Oil and gas operations are known to cause sinkholes, Turco said, which
> might explain the unusual location of the collapse less than a mile east of
> Denver City.
>
> "During normal times, there is a fluid or a substance holding up whatever
> is above," he said. "If that is extracted the pressure is reduced and there
> can be a surface feature after a collapse."
>
> Much larger sinkholes appeared in the early 1980s near Wink - about 100
> miles southwest of Denver City - also near oil and gas operations.
>
> Sinkholes have to be treated with care, Turco said, as each case is
> different from the next. While all features share some similarities, there's
> no way to tell whether the collapse will expand without further examination.
>
> "It depends on what the rocks are underneath the sinkhole and what caused
> the sinkhole," he said. "Typically, once they express themselves after their
> initial expansion they don't get much larger."
>
> http://lubbockonline.com/stories/073009/loc_472749121.shtml Lubbock
> Avalanche-Journal
> Giant Denver City sinkhole collapses
>
> *Posted: Jul 29, 2009 9:26 AM CDT **Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:26 AM EST*
>
> DENVER CITY, TX (KCBD) - A giant sinkhole has been discovered just outside
> of Denver City, Texas.
>
> According to Occidental Permian Ltd., at approximately 11:00 p.m. on
> Monday, July 27th, the sinkhole was discovered 2 miles northeast of Denver
> City, on Occidental property. An independent fire and safety company is on
> location and the area is secured. Wells in the area have been shut-in as a
> precaution. The sinkhole is approximately 70 yards long, 67 yards wide and
> 16 yards deep. Occidental personnel reports that there are no injuries to
> employees, and no injuries or other impacts outside the immediate vicinity
> around the hole. Oxy has notified the appropriate local and state
> authorities, and will continue to cooperate fully with them. NewsChannel 11
> will be following this story and will bring you any updates as they become
> available.
>
> http://www.kcbd.com/Global/story.asp?S=10810491
>
> ------------------------------
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>
--- End Message ---
