Similar cave land owner right cases in KY have been discussed and taken to
court starting in the late 1800's and early 1900's.
See below these stories-cases-briefs and review on Great Onyx Cave, 3 miles
from Mammoth Cave, Kentucky.
The history of Mammoth Cave is fascinating. I hope you can set aside some time
to read this account, especially L.P. Edwards vs. Edmund Turner.
A few years ago I was at Flint Ridge Baptist Church when Edmund Turner,
namesake of the famous Turner Avenue under Flint Ridge, was given a new
tombstone. The next time you stop by this cemetery to see Floyd Collins' final
resting place, please visit with Edmund Turner and so many others associated
with Mammoth Cave who are buried in that cemetery, the most famous caver
cemetery in the world.
http://chaselaw.nku.edu/content/dam/chaselaw/docs/academics/lawreview/v40/nklr_v40n1_pp001-048.pdf
Preston Forsythe
Browder, KY
On Saturday, July 22, 2017 1:16 AM, Terry Holsinger via Texascavers
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
Marvin, just my opinion, and only a lawyer and judge could answer a
specific question about a specific issue/problem/case.
However any data and photos belong to "you" unless you produced them
"for hire" then they belong to who ever hired you to produce that data.
As for someone suing you, well that can (and does) happen anytime
someone has the money and the desire to file suit against whoever they
want and they can do it for anything.
As to if it goes anywhere in CIVIL court is up to your lawyer and the
judge.
It IS possible for someone to prevent/restrict a "use" of your
data/photos IF they can prove in court that doing so will "harm" them
is some way.
That said, IMO for it to get anywhere in court this "other" landowner
will need to prove that the information is on their property AND was
generated during their ownership of said property AND that you
knowingly produced this data after being told to not trespass on that
property AND that that landowner made a valid effort to secure and
post their property line in a court accepted manner, fencing and
signage being the norm AND (this may be the most important to winning
a case) they will need to prove that your data/information in some way
"harms" them.
In a case where the landowner does not have access to "their" cave
either by a natural or artificial entrance they have no way of proving
you were on their property in the first place.
Nor do they have any way of preventing your egress to/from any cave
passage under their property.
Yes in Texas the property ownership goes from the sky above to ground
below (mineral rights being able to be separated from and sold
separately from the land).
Caves MIGHT be able to be classified with mineral rights IF someone
wanted to, for example in the case of commercial use of said cave.
If I recall there is (was) a TPWD boundary sign that was placed by
cavers in one of the side passages in Honey Creek Cave were it goes
under the park boundary fence. Someone at TPWD had said something to
the effect that cavers needed to stop "digging" they way they were in
that passage under the park as that method of "digging" was not
approved by TWPD (and that is what propmpted the placement of said
signage).
Terry H.
On 2017-07-22 0:00, Marvin and Lisa via Texascavers wrote:
> We have probably all been in this situation: A landowner invites you
> explore a cave on his land. You do a few trips with your caving buds.
> You survey the cave. After surveying it becomes obvious that the cave
> crosses under the property line of the neighboring landowner. Are you
> trespassing if you continue to visit the cave and pass under the
> neighboring property? Were you trespassing before you were aware that
> the cave crossed the property line? Is it only trespassing when the
> neighbor becomes aware of the cave and asks you not to traverse his
> part of the cave anymore?
>
>
>
> A related question: Does the survey data you collected of the
> neighbor’s portion of the cave and do the pictures you took of that
> area belong to you, or would the neighboring landowner have standing
> to sue in court for the rights to that data?
>
>
>
> Marvin Miller
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
_______________________________________________
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
_______________________________________________
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
