LiDAR for that area is recently available so if there is a significant surface feature associated with this cave it may be located thru that. Send me coords AGG
From: "George Veni" <gv...@nckri.org> To: "texascavers" <texascavers@texascavers.com> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 12:24:35 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] looking for cave near Langtry John and Terry, Curiosity got me digging. John, there was no cave in the Texas Speleological Survey database that matched your information. There is now. I’ve plugged your information into the database at a location that might be the site of an old homestead but really needs someone to check the county property records to confirm where the Walter Babb Ranch headquarters was precisely located (although during my digging I found a 1953 El Paso newspaper article where Babb was allegedly caught stealing cattle). Terry, Fielder Canyon Cave is in the TSS database, but not in Texas. Several Texas caves and karst features without location information are assigned the same set of default coordinates in southeast New Mexico. Once location information is available, they are relocated back into Texas. Using the information you sent, I moved the cave into Texas to coordinates that are probably accurate to within about 1,500 m. George ******************** George Veni, PhD Executive Director, National Cave and Karst Research Institute (NCKRI) and President, International Union of Speleology (UIS) NCKRI address (primary) 400-1 Cascades Avenue Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220 USA Office: +575-887-5517 Mobile: +210-863-5919 Fax: +575-887-5523 [ mailto:gv...@nckri.org | gv...@nckri.org ] [ http://www.nckri.org/ | www.nckri.org ] UIS address Titov trg 2 Postojna, 6230 Slovenia From: Texascavers <texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com> On Behalf Of john Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 01:23 To: texascavers@texascavers.com; karstwal...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] looking for cave near Langtry This isn’t the one I’m looking for, but thanks for the reference. I had not seen this one written up before although I’ve been to several caves and lots of occupied rockshelters near here. John On Apr 28, 2021, at 7:43 PM, Karstwalker < [ mailto:karstwal...@gmail.com | karstwal...@gmail.com ] > wrote: So might this be the cave listed in NSS Bulletin No10 as Fielder Canyon Cave? See attached description Terry H. On 2021-04-28 12:39, john wrote: BQ_BEGIN Hi All, Hopefully someone can help me locate a small vertical cave north or northwest of Langtry. I have known of this cave for decades, but because of its history relative to the family, I have put off recording the cave (or even visiting it) until now. Most of the family is now dead, and with me at the end of life the location and history of the cave will be lost soon. I don’t think it is mentioned in the Caves of Val Verde County, but it should end up in the county files for both caves and archeology for future reference and history. It is a small vertical pit with supposedly a small opening entrance and ample interior space. I have no idea if it has vertical walls or bells out. It should be fairly close to the old Walter Babb ranch headquarters, which I assume was his small ranchhouse, shed, and normal old-style pens. Since I have never been to the cave, I don’t know its exact location, but it was rumored to be a vertical pit relatively near the house. The cave would be similar to the vertical pits of Hitzfelder and Mason’s Indian Cave and nothing like Lead or any of the other Langtry area caves. If anyone has any ideas or general information, you can post them to this list. But if you have the exact location, please respond to me personally at [ mailto:jgr...@greerservices.com | jgr...@greerservices.com ] < [ mailto:jgr...@greerservices.com | mailto:jgr...@greerservices.com ] > or text me at 307-267-2036. Many thanks. Web info on Walter Babb: Born 1877, Georgia. Ranch between Langtry and Pandale. Babb Ranch 8.24 miles north-northwest of Langtry. “Both my parents went to the cave they [bank robbers] hid out in on the Babb Ranch between Pandale and Langtry”. [I suspect that is some large rockshelter down on the river and not the small vertical cave I am interested in.]. “Walter Babb took them [the author’s parents] around to some of the caves, one still had Indian artifacts inside [again, he is talking about occupied shelters along the river or in the canyon]. Cemetery in Langtry: Ike Babb 1856-1934 (probably Will and Walter’s father); William Lewis Babb 1876-1913 (killed in Langtry); other family members buried here born 1836, 1849. [my irrelevant comment] Walter was presumably Boye Babb’s father. Boye lived just west of Langtry, just above Langtry Creek. We dug the Langtry Creek Burial Cave just below his house in 1963 or so, at the _same_ time that he got into a gun fight at his house and was killed, just after he gave us permission to go on in. [This has nothing to do with the cave up off of Pandale Road, just my reminiscence.] John Greer nss 14018 _______________________________________________ BQ_END _______________________________________________ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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